brabus Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 3 hours ago, gearhog said: [canceling an election and letting the current guy stay in the seat until a TBD date] is a necessary step in preserving itself as a beacon of freedom and democracy and protecting it's citizens from tyranny. LOL. That’s some solid gaslighting right there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire4effect Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 First M1 Abrams Tank Destroyed In Ukraine—Social Media Reacted (forbes.com) I suppose it was only a matter of time. So many truths about Air Land Battle are no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 First M1 Abrams Tank Destroyed In Ukraine—Social Media Reacted (forbes.com) I suppose it was only a matter of time. So many truths about Air Land Battle are no more.“Destroyed” as reported by media leaves a hell of a lot of leeway by what we would classify as destroyed in actual Armor. Knocked out or disabled, yeah probably as that’s happened a lot in the past in Iraq as well. If you are disabled remaining with the hull would be suicide and the crew is the most irreplaceable component. But, short of burning if you can perform a recovery it’s pretty ridiculous how badly battle damaged but through rear area MX is restorable. The resilience of the platform and survivability of the crew is really what the M1 has historically shown its self to be. People confuse that with some form of video game god mode invulnerability. That’s why ours and every smart western military has focused so much on not repeating the mistakes the Germans made and put Armor recovery vehicles in our MTOE. It is far easier to replace a tank from the battlefield than it is to wait and build a new one. If the Ukrainians can recover it back to the rear they can Low Boy the thing to the Depots we already have in Europe for exactly this contingency.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McJay Pilot Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 6 hours ago, fire4effect said: First M1 Abrams Tank Destroyed In Ukraine—Social Media Reacted (forbes.com) I suppose it was only a matter of time. So many truths about Air Land Battle are no more. It’ll be ok. Even CPT Bannon and Team Yankee lost a hull or two fighting the Red Horde. As Lawman pointed out, the odds are good that the MX bubbas can have it back in the fight if they can get to it! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire4effect Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 6 hours ago, Lawman said: “Destroyed” as reported by media leaves a hell of a lot of leeway by what we would classify as destroyed in actual Armor. Knocked out or disabled, yeah probably as that’s happened a lot in the past in Iraq as well. If you are disabled remaining with the hull would be suicide and the crew is the most irreplaceable component. But, short of burning if you can perform a recovery it’s pretty ridiculous how badly battle damaged but through rear area MX is restorable. The resilience of the platform and survivability of the crew is really what the M1 has historically shown its self to be. People confuse that with some form of video game god mode invulnerability. That’s why ours and every smart western military has focused so much on not repeating the mistakes the Germans made and put Armor recovery vehicles in our MTOE. It is far easier to replace a tank from the battlefield than it is to wait and build a new one. If the Ukrainians can recover it back to the rear they can Low Boy the thing to the Depots we already have in Europe for exactly this contingency. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I know in Iraq it took a pretty big IED to take one out. Unlike Russian tanks I'm sure the crew had a much better chance at survival. No turret throwing contest. Assuming the video is real it was shown burning so I don't know what condition it's in. To your point on repair, I'm skeptical the capability is there to fix many of these. Media reports say a drone did it, but I guess you can say even a Javelin style weapon could loosely fit in that category depending on who's doing the reporting. More info to follow I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire4effect Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busdriver Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Could just as easily be the shit on top burning (countermeasure dispensers, ammo cans, whatever else is strapped on top) I'm certainly no M-1 expert, but it doesn't look like flame/smoke pouring out of a critical opening in the hull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhhello Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Supposedly FPV drone disabled and RPG finished it off. Who knows. Surprised it took this long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BashiChuni Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) you guys are arguing speculating over a tank kill. lol. Edited February 28 by BashiChuni 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhhello Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 And you're in here reading it. rofl 2 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ratner Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 On 2/26/2024 at 5:40 PM, BashiChuni said: its gonna happen. ole joe gonna lead us right into WW3 This has been building for decades. The election of an idiot political class is part of the process, not the cause. Francis Fukuyama is going to have to release a revision to his book. I'm just glad my kids will be too young for what's coming. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilanteNav Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 More interesting than tank kills. Ukraine's Defence Intelligence posts final flight path of downed Russian A-50 – map | Ukrainska Pravda So, that's 2 x A-50s down and this latest one is claimed to be from an S-200 (SA-5) and not a Patriot. Pretty impressive they pulled out a system that in open sources says they retired 10 years ago and proceeded to shoot down an aircraft at that range. This combined with the reporting that they've shot down around 10 fighters in the past week or so is making for a bad week for the Russian Air Force. Ukraine might be losing some ground but the Russian Air Force is paying for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeA10 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 The M-1 in the photo shows the blow out panel above the ammo storage blown out which is what they are supposed to do. There is a sliding armored door separating the ammo storage from the crew compartment. The picture might be flipped because I recall the ammo storage on the left side. They never let me drive or shoot it but I did learn to load the gun. (Years ago ALO with armor battalion w/M-1 A1 later A2 tanks) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BashiChuni Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 7 hours ago, VigilanteNav said: More interesting than tank kills. Ukraine's Defence Intelligence posts final flight path of downed Russian A-50 – map | Ukrainska Pravda So, that's 2 x A-50s down and this latest one is claimed to be from an S-200 (SA-5) and not a Patriot. Pretty impressive they pulled out a system that in open sources says they retired 10 years ago and proceeded to shoot down an aircraft at that range. This combined with the reporting that they've shot down around 10 fighters in the past week or so is making for a bad week for the Russian Air Force. Ukraine might be losing some ground but the Russian Air Force is paying for it. The Russians are happy to pay for it. They are winning. As evidence I submit the panic in the EU. And nato. Floating ideas of committing NATO ground troops in Ukraine. That type of dangerous rhetoric wouldn’t be happening if Ukraine was winning. so celebrate all your tactical victories as we lose the strategic war. Typical American officer corps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire4effect Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 4 hours ago, TreeA10 said: The M-1 in the photo shows the blow out panel above the ammo storage blown out which is what they are supposed to do. There is a sliding armored door separating the ammo storage from the crew compartment. The picture might be flipped because I recall the ammo storage on the left side. They never let me drive or shoot it but I did learn to load the gun. (Years ago ALO with armor battalion w/M-1 A1 later A2 tanks) Did they ever give you a 2 pound sledge hammer and send you out to the motor pool to check for thin spots in the armor? 🙂 Edited February 28 by fire4effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frog Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 32 minutes ago, BashiChuni said: Floating ideas of committing NATO ground troops in Ukraine. Who is floating these ideas? Seriously. I haven’t seen a serious discussion of sending NATO land forces into Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhog Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 8 minutes ago, frog said: Who is floating these ideas? Seriously. I haven’t seen a serious discussion of sending NATO land forces into Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BashiChuni Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, frog said: Who is floating these ideas? Seriously. I haven’t seen a serious discussion of sending NATO land forces into Ukraine. Happened recently. Blustery rhetoric to force the US house’s hand to pass Ukraine money? A possibility. But certainly dangerous, escalatory rhetoric. and not a good indicator for how the reality on the ground in Ukraine is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BashiChuni Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 To be fair the Biden administration continues to say no US troops will be committed. https://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2024/02/27/france-troops-in-ukraine-us-no-00143498 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourFans Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 42 minutes ago, BashiChuni said: To be fair the Biden administration continues to say no US troops will be committed. https://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2024/02/27/france-troops-in-ukraine-us-no-00143498 ...yeah, and there was no border crisis over the past 3 years... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BashiChuni Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Which is why it’s so frightening. This administration is incompetent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeA10 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 4 hours ago, fire4effect said: Did they ever give you a 2 pound sledge hammer and send you out to the motor pool to check for thin spots in the armor? 🙂 No but I did learn how to heat MREs on the exhaust louvers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ratner Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 9 hours ago, BashiChuni said: The Russians are happy to pay for it. They are winning. As evidence I submit the panic in the EU. And nato. Floating ideas of committing NATO ground troops in Ukraine. That type of dangerous rhetoric wouldn’t be happening if Ukraine was winning. so celebrate all your tactical victories as we lose the strategic war. Typical American officer corps. Wait, are you against non-US NATO countries sending ground troops into Ukraine? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhog Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Financial Times article from today details some leaked Russian nuclear doctrine, including the thresholds required for nukes to be used. https://www.ft.com/content/f18e6e1f-5c3d-4554-aee5-50a730b306b7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BashiChuni Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 47 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said: Wait, are you against non-US NATO countries sending ground troops into Ukraine? You aren’t!? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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