The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)

[ViperMan]

22 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

That dude is a total douchebag, no different than the people who would yell shit at Trump. Disagree vehemently, ask hard questions at Town Halls, sure, but when you’re talking directly to the President of the United States, don’t be an ass.

Douchebags often serve an important roll in our society. Here's one saying the emperor has no clothes, and even though it's offensive and uncouth, it does a great job highlighting the lengths to which the rest of the establishment is failing to hold power accountable and failing to have important conversations. But yeah, it's probably more important that we all just continue playing our violins.

[Majestik Møøse]

21 hours ago, ViperMan said:

Douchebags often serve an important roll in our society. Here's one saying the emperor has no clothes, and even though it's offensive and uncouth, it does a great job highlighting the lengths to which the rest of the establishment is failing to hold power accountable and failing to have important conversations. But yeah, it's probably more important that we all just continue playing our violins.

Nah, idiots are idiots. This is one that thinks he is cool, but what’s way worse is that people with the ability to manipulate the minds of millions are feeding off of an idiot’s actions in one direction or the other. Narcissistic douchebags and the people they influence divide America, nothing else. They shouldn’t be engaged.

[GrndPndr]

On 12/26/2021 at 12:19 PM, Breckey said:

Would have been great if Jill has said the “I agree” part.

It would have been best if she had offered a small giggle with her hand partially over her mouth.

[HeloDude]

3 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

Narcissistic douchebags and the people they influence divide America, nothing else. They shouldn’t be engaged.

In that case, then the entire “news” media would go out of business…which maybe wouldn’t be such a bad thing?

[ClearedHot]

On 12/25/2021 at 1:15 PM, Majestik Møøse said:

That dude is a total douchebag, no different than the people who would yell shit at Trump. Disagree vehemently, ask hard questions at Town Halls, sure, but when you’re talking directly to the President of the United States, don’t be an ass.

I'll give you a slightly different take. 

Is he a douche, yes.  Were the people that shouted things at Trump in official settings douches, yes.  Was Rep Joe Wilson a douche when he shouted at Obama during the State of The Union, yes.  However, there is an underlying principle of the Constitution that separates us from every other country, the First Amendment.  Events like these rub against common courtesy and decency, they can be sicking to hear, and they often make people like me mad, but they are absolutely protected free speech and we should embrace that no matter much we dislike it.  Think about it, in other countries you would be sent to the Gulag, poisoned, or simply disappear. 

The First Amendment is powerful, and first for a reason.  Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Our country is very divided at the moment, but not as divided as we have been in the past when politicians used to duel or the ultimate disagreement when we found a civil war and killed 2.5% of the American population.  Free speech isn't free only when you agree with what the other person is saying...tolerance is a tough pill to swallow at times, but it is a necessity in our system and it may be the tool that brings us back together, or close enough we can get things done in the middle.

On 12/27/2021 at 10:03 AM, Majestik Møøse said:

Narcissistic douchebags and the people they influence divide America, nothing else. They shouldn’t be engaged.

Brother I feel your anger, I've been upset when people say things that I think are moronic on this forum.  I've lost my temper and replied in anger, but at the end of the day I circle back to everyone in this country having the right to believe what they want.  Your statement above is the best approach to dealing with such douches, but remember, in this great country they do have the right to be a douche.

Just my .02

 

 

[Negatory]

3 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

I'll give you a slightly different take. 

Is he a douche, yes.  Were the people that shouted things at Trump in official settings douches, yes.  Was Rep Joe Wilson a douche when he shouted at Obama during the State of The Union, yes.  However, there is an underlying principle of the Constitution that separates us from every other country, the First Amendment.  Events like these rub against common courtesy and decency, they can be sicking to hear, and they often make people like me mad, but they are absolutely protected free speech and we should embrace that no matter much we dislike it.  Think about it, in other countries you would be sent to the Gulag, poisoned, or simply disappear. 

The First Amendment is powerful, and first for a reason.  Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Our country is very divided at the moment, but not as divided as we have been in the past when politicians used to duel or the ultimate disagreement when we found a civil war and killed 2.5% of the American population.  Free speech isn't free only when you agree with what the other person is saying...tolerance is a tough pill to swallow at times, but it is a necessity in our system and it may be the tool that brings us back together, or close enough we can get things done in the middle.

Brother I feel your anger, I've been upset when people say things that I think are moronic on this forum.  I've lost my temper and replied in anger, but at the end of the day I circle back to everyone in this country having the right to believe what they want.  Your statement above is the best approach to dealing with such douches, but remember, in this great country they do have the right to be a douche.

Just my .02

 

 

No one here is arguing for this guy to be locked up. They are arguing that this guy is a douche, and that everyone should think that he’s a douche. Big difference.

While the first amendment let’s you say almost whatever you want with a few caveats, it only protects you from the government. Private citizens, private organizations, and private businesses have all the rights in the world to never interact with this guy in a positive way again based on what he said if they want. We can judge his speech harshly. We can denounce him and convince others to denounce him. We could petition Twitter and Facebook to deplatform him right now with no real constitutional recourse - and before you tell me I’m wrong, they already did it with Trump. Twitter/Facebook could choose to do that on their own! I can even openly advocate for other free citizens to legally boycott this guy based on his beliefs. I can tell everyone else that this guy is a shitty dude, if I want. I can try to convince others of the same. As long as I don’t lie about facts, I am absolutely protected, and you should embrace that no matter how much you dislike it. 

It’s a common misconception that the first amendment gives you any more protection for yourself than freedom from gov persecution. It’s not freedom from societal judgment. Not even an iota.

Also, arguing tolerance of all free speech could be what brings us back to the middle is a ridiculous over generalization. Would you have been the one arguing for tolerance of the American Nazi Party’s platform in 1946? Sure, the gov shouldn’t do anything if it’s not criminal. But private society choosing to harshly judge someone for being a childish douche? Sorry bout ya.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Negatory

[M2]

3 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

I'll give you a slightly different take...

[FourFans]

57 minutes ago, M2 said:

Those wondering what happened to Rainman...he's been located.

[VMFA187]

3 hours ago, Negatory said:

It’s a common misconception that the first amendment gives you any more protection for yourself than freedom from gov persecution. It’s not freedom from societal judgment. Not even an iota.

 

Fairly sure no one thinks that. Everyone knows that words can have consequences. 

[FourFans]

23 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

Fairly sure no one thinks that. Everyone knows that words can have consequences. 

While I'd like to agree, what I've witnessed in 2021 has me doubting that all people actually know this.  I'm pretty sure there is a large section of our population that believes...wrongly...that the 1st Amendment means they can say whatever they want and receive no consequences, regardless of what they said.

[Majestik Møøse]

The squadron bar is kinda like a social media platform. You say something dumb enough in the bar and you’ll get shouted down by the bros. Keep saying dumb shit, and they’ll change the door code and not let you back in. If the Bobs who own the bar decide not to change the door code and keep letting the clown talk, the bros will eventually leave and nobody likes the bar anymore. Either way, the Wing Commander isn’t coming to arrest you for just being a douche in the bar.

[dream big]

19 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

While I'd like to agree, what I've witnessed in 2021 has me doubting that all people actually know this.  I'm pretty sure there is a large section of our population that believes...wrongly...that the 1st Amendment means they can say whatever they want and receive no consequences, regardless of what they said.

Similarly there’s a significant portion of our populace that thinks it’s prudent to regulate free speech, criminalize so called “hate speech”, believe in cancel culture and whine like a bunch of third graders when they hear an opinion different than what their gender studies professor told them.  It’s pathetic.  
 

Absolutely true though, free speech has consequences and only protects you from the government. 

[busdriver]

2 hours ago, dream big said:

Absolutely true though, free speech has consequences and only protects you from the government. 

Point of order:  The first amendment protects the people from the government.  Free speech is a concept, and as the bill of rights are only an enumeration of natural rights the conceptual framework can stand as a point of argumentation.

One can argue that social media is effectively the public square based on how politicians and the press treat it.  A conceptual argument for free speech would be applicable. 

God help us that the youtube comments without the youtube is now considered public discourse by people in positions of power........

[Negatory]

On 12/31/2021 at 8:24 PM, Majestik Møøse said:

The squadron bar is kinda like a social media platform. You say something dumb enough in the bar and you’ll get shouted down by the bros. Keep saying dumb shit, and they’ll change the door code and not let you back in. If the Bobs who own the bar decide not to change the door code and keep letting the clown talk, the bros will eventually leave and nobody likes the bar anymore. Either way, the Wing Commander isn’t coming to arrest you for just being a douche in the bar.

This is ironically great because it’s how it should work, but doesn’t. Reference the 2 bros I’ve seen get Art-15d by the group commander for drunken sexual jokes they made in front of the wrong person.

[Majestik Møøse]

8 hours ago, Negatory said:

This is ironically great because it’s how it should work, but doesn’t. Reference the 2 bros I’ve seen get Art-15d by the group commander for drunken sexual jokes they made in front of the wrong person.

In the bar?

[ViperMan]

8 hours ago, Negatory said:

This is ironically great because it’s how it should work, but doesn’t. Reference the 2 bros I’ve seen get Art-15d by the group commander for drunken sexual jokes they made in front of the wrong person.

What platform?

[Negatory]

Yes in the bar, a fighter.

[HeloDude]

15 minutes ago, Negatory said:

Yes in the bar, a fighter.

Just curious…what do you think should have happened to these individuals for making the sexual jokes that someone found offensive?

[SocialD]

7 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

Just curious…what do you think should have happened to these individuals for making the sexual jokes that someone found offensive?

 

 

First offense?  Blues for week/month, give some briefings in said blues, and LOC an LOR at most.  Art-15...GTFO.  If we gave punishment such as this for off colored jokes, we wouldn't have anyone to lead the AF or the government.  

[HeloDude]

1 minute ago, SocialD said:

First offense?  Blues for week/month, give some briefings in said blues, and LOC an LOR at most.  Art-15...GTFO.  If we gave punishment such as this for off colored jokes, we wouldn't have anyone to lead the AF or the government.  

Would you say the same for blatantly racist jokes that offended someone?  I’m not saying I agree or disagree with you…just playing devils advocate.  Where’s the line?  Whether I like it or not, the Air Force over the last 10+ years has definitely laid out that it has a zero tolerance for this behavior.  So why should we surprised when action is taken against such individuals who violate the policy?

Negatory believes that if you’re in the military, then you have to follow the rules or be disciplined (ie covid vaccine)—so why does he think differently on this policy in a military building (the squadron bar)?

[SocialD]

6 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

Whether I like it or not, the Air Force over the last 10+ years has definitely laid out that it has a zero tolerance for this behavior.  So why should we surprised when action is taken against such individuals who violate the policy?

 

I'm good with action being taken, it's the level of action I disagree with.  The rest of your post, I'm onboard with.   

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by SocialD

[M2]

A little levity...(and yes, I am aware of the misspelling.  Not my meme!)

[brabus]

22 hours ago, HeloDude said:

Where’s the line?

Are hidden dicks on briefing boards before or after the line? Asking for a friend…

[HeloDude]

7 minutes ago, brabus said:

Are hidden dicks on briefing boards before or after the line? Asking for a friend…

You tell me?  What if someone had written hidden racist messages as a joke?  

As I said before, it’s not if something bothers me or not, or if it bothers you or not.  If it bothers someone, just one person, and it’s clear that it was done to poke fun and/or offend someone in a sexual nature, etc then it’s fair game for a commander to deal with. And that’s the Air Force we’re in right now, for better or for worse…and I think they’ve made it pretty clear over the last 10+ years that they can go after individuals for it.  Is it different than when I started UPT over 19 years ago?—hell yeah it’s different, and they didn’t bother to ask me whether or not I like the changes.
 

Now how should a commander deal with/discipline those who intentionally violate the policy?  That’s up to them…probably depends on the specific issue at hand, the climate/culture of the squadron, etc.  But you know how you don’t get in trouble for drawing hidden dicks on the briefing board?…you don’t do it.

[uhhello]

The female STO pipeline drama is getting good