What's wrong with the Air Force?

[Guest]

8 hours ago, LumberjackAxe said:

 it's about avoiding non-vols to RPAs. And the fast-burning, holiday-party-planning, spouse-of-the-month, powerpoint-warrior pilots are the favorites in the eyes of the Air Force, and as such are insulated from RPA threats

Is non-vol to RPA still a threat in your community?  I know a few guys who are trying to get back to RPAs who have been denied because the pipeline is so backed up with 18Xers.

[Day Man]

10 hours ago, LumberjackAxe said:

AMC recently mandated that all assets carry a gun on non-Combat missions (feel free to correct me here--I've been out of AMC for almost two years now and I've drank a lot since then). But some assets, such as the KC-10, don't have a lock box onboard. That forces aircrew to "break the law" and either leave the gun in the KC-10's super secret compartment (it's not secret nor is it locked) or bring it to the hotel room. Essentially, AMC's order is forcing aircrew into a situation where they have to violate the very same order.

After my FEB, the recorder (prosecutor essentially) became the DO in my (AMC) squadron. I overheard him in the mission planning room tell a new co-pilot that the reason there are so many AFIs is that you couldn't possibly learn/adhere to all of them, and the AF could hold you liable.

[Guardian]

Irony....


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[matmacwc]

3 hours ago, Day Man said:

After my >>>>>FEB<<<<, the recorder (prosecutor essentially) became the DO in my (AMC) squadron. I overheard him in the mission planning room tell a new co-pilot that the reason there are so many AFIs is that you couldn't possibly learn/adhere to all of them, and the AF could hold you liable.

Story time.

[Fuzz]

21 minutes ago, matmacwc said:

Story time.

Already covered here:

[Day Man]

there's a whole thread about it 

edit: Fuzz is on it

Edited May 9, 2017 by Day Man

[matmacwc]

3 hours ago, Fuzz said:

Already covered here:

My B, still haven't seen the video of the (rumored) combat camera crew that was in the cockpit when this happened, true it exists? You kinda answered 2 questions with one answer 4 years ago.

Edited May 9, 2017 by matmacwc

[war007afa]

20 hours ago, LumberjackAxe said:

•  
• Absurd "cover your ass" policies. I returned from a KC-10 deployment on Dec 24th, and was denied leave because we couldn't have more than 10% of any one crew position on leave at the same time, and there were presidential alert lines (they were all scheduled and filled). Why was I denied leave? "Just in case." <-- no shit quote from my DO. So I was on my post-deployment crew rest, untouchable and timed out, yet I had to sit at home just in case I had to fly a nonexistent mission which I would've been ineligible to fly.

Please tell me you submitted the leave and made them deny on the official request. This stupidity needs to be highlighted. 

Regarding "Catch 22": it was my submission to the CSAF Reading List. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by war007afa
Quotes are hard

[Day Man]

1 hour ago, matmacwc said:

My B, still haven't seen the video of the (rumored) combat camera crew that was in the cockpit when this happened, true it exists? You kinda answered 2 questions with one answer 4 years ago.

True.

[Sprkt69]

18 hours ago, NKAWTG said:

That 10% is usually a Sq set policy.  It should be well within the DO's ability to approve above that for Christmas, and just put people on local leave on notice that when the sh*t hits the fan, you will get recalled.  Or make the wing exec fly. Either one can work, and more likely than not, people will get their leave.

Whoa whoa whoa. That Wing Exec has like super important things to do, like get to the senior management's constant wishes and making sure his/her golden knee pads are not being scuffed too badly instead of such trivial things like flying.

[Clark Griswold]

This is more of symptom of what's wrong with the AF rather than the cause but it reeks of shoe clerkism & process worshiping versus professional, competent, confident decision making...

 Unprecedented: US Air Force Will Let a Defense Company Pick Its Next Jamming Plane

Like the Boeing 737 Compass Call, would be a good part of a re-cap strategy for an 737 fleet for JSTARS, AWACS, RIVET, etc...

 

[Prosuper]

10 minutes ago, Clark Griswold said:

This is more of symptom of what's wrong with the AF rather than the cause but it reeks of shoe clerkism & process worshiping versus professional, competent, confident decision making...

 Unprecedented: US Air Force Will Let a Defense Company Pick Its Next Jamming Plane

Like the Boeing 737 Compass Call, would be a good part of a re-cap strategy for an 737 fleet for JSTARS, AWACS, RIVET, etc...

 

Why not? The government has screwed it up so much might as well contract it out.

[Clark Griswold]

Why not? The government has screwed it up so much might as well contract it out.

You're right - the contractor has a profit motive that will get bigger F ups done faster and for more money with less iron bought - genius!


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[17D_guy]

39 minutes ago, Clark Griswold said:

This is more of symptom of what's wrong with the AF rather than the cause but it reeks of shoe clerkism & process worshiping versus professional, competent, confident decision making...

This so much.  

Me via my Col, "Hey, there's this big new service migration coming week after next.  The 4-star promised the other 4-star we'd get it done.  The ticket's been in for a couple of weeks now with no action.  Sq/Commander X, can you look into it and make sure it moves along so we're not wrangling Amn on a Sat to get it done.  It is planned for XX May XX."  CC'd whole chain for vis.

Nothing for 4 days, so we pinged saying this was coming <a week.

Commander X, "We've got to make sure it goes through our ad hoc process, did I mention we're undermanned?"

"Right, but...you know, 4-stars, high-vis...you're a Commander.  We've made Amn jump through their ass before, and we're trying to avoid that. Can you give me a ETA of when it'll get done"

"Ops Grp" CD, "Well, you can raise the priority on it and that'll move it through the log-jam.  I'll get you a POC.  What's the due date, we aren't tracking it?"

Call "Ops Group" 5 hours later since we've had no comms.  CC, CD, Sq/CC all gone TDY/Leave.  Talk to the civ "deputy" who "Doesn't work the ops side of the house."  Goes on and on about how the new contract is going to take care of all these tickets in the future, and we need to plan them better, etc.

Sq DO shoots me an email telling me we need to prioritize their work for them, that they've had this ticket for a week, but weren't doing anything because it's a "project" and they don't work those unless tasked.  Once it's tasked, then they'll start planning, but won't start planning now.  Also, they guy they need to do it won't be in for the rest of the week, so we have to figure something else out.  Accused my Col of Bro-netting the tickets to get done.

I will not be taking the bonus, because I will not serve under these monkeys.  

[panchbarnes]

5 minutes ago, 17D_guy said:

This so much.  

Me via my Col, "Hey, there's this big new service migration coming week after next.  The 4-star promised the other 4-star we'd get it done.  The ticket's been in for a couple of weeks now with no action.  Sq/Commander X, can you look into it and make sure it moves along so we're not wrangling Amn on a Sat to get it done.  It is planned for XX May XX."  CC'd whole chain for vis.

Nothing for 4 days, so we pinged saying this was coming <a week.

Commander X, "We've got to make sure it goes through our ad hoc process, did I mention we're undermanned?"

"Right, but...you know, 4-stars, high-vis...you're a Commander.  We've made Amn jump through their ass before, and we're trying to avoid that. Can you give me a ETA of when it'll get done"

"Ops Grp" CD, "Well, you can raise the priority on it and that'll move it through the log-jam.  I'll get you a POC.  What's the due date, we aren't tracking it?"

Call "Ops Group" 5 hours later since we've had no comms.  CC, CD, Sq/CC all gone TDY/Leave.  Talk to the civ "deputy" who "Doesn't work the ops side of the house."  Goes on and on about how the new contract is going to take care of all these tickets in the future, and we need to plan them better, etc.

Sq DO shoots me an email telling me we need to prioritize their work for them, that they've had this ticket for a week, but weren't doing anything because it's a "project" and they don't work those unless tasked.  Once it's tasked, then they'll start planning, but won't start planning now.  Also, they guy they need to do it won't be in for the rest of the week, so we have to figure something else out.  Accused my Col of Bro-netting the tickets to get done.

I will not be taking the bonus, because I will not serve under these monkeys.  

Don't worry, things aren't that much better for the rest of the DoD. 

IT trouble tickets are backed up 7-8 months out because of a new (cheaper) contracting company that came onboard last year.  Many machines and VTCs don't work, the only way to get something fixed in a timely fashion is via the bro-network.

[Clark Griswold]

20 minutes ago, 17D_guy said:

I will not be taking the bonus, because I will not serve under these monkeys.  

Vote with your feet if you have to, I wish I could say I see a turning point but it just gets to be more of a jobs program all the time with some Air, Space and Cyberspace power projection done for good measure.

Pains me to say that without offering some kind of solution to the problem but maybe it (the AF) is just in need of a massive reset vs "fix the glitch".  How to reset is the 64 billion dollar question.

[VMFA187]

13 hours ago, Day Man said:

After my FEB, the recorder (prosecutor essentially) became the DO in my (AMC) squadron. I overheard him in the mission planning room tell a new co-pilot that the reason there are so many AFIs is that you couldn't possibly learn/adhere to all of them, and the AF could hold you liable.

I was recently asked by a Guard fighter squadron what I feel would be the biggest culture shock going from a Marine fighter squadron to an Air Force squadron would be and that was essentially it.

I don't have first hand experience as an AF fighter pilot but have heard the standard spiel about only being allowed to do what the pubs say you are allowed to vice the Navy/USMC of being able to do everything with the exception of what the pubs say you cannot do.

 

[SurelySerious]

I thought the approved 3-1.CS section on trouble tickets said to just delete said ticket, then when queried by the requestor blame it on a "new ticket system" and have them re-submit.

[Boomer6]

Anyone here attend the meeting with HAF A3 at Randolph this week?

[dream big]

5 hours ago, Sprkt69 said:

Whoa whoa whoa. That Wing Exec has like super important things to do, like get to the senior management's constant wishes and making sure his/her golden knee pads are not being scuffed too badly instead of such trivial things like flying.

To be honest, most wing execs I know went kicking and screaming. I felt bad for them.  Best advice I ever got : be good enough at your job that you get the mission done and bring your boys home safe, don't be too good that you start getting considered for HPO...I didn't know what HPO was at the time but I'm fairly convinced it's not a choice to many..

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

9 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

Anyone here attend the meeting with HAF A3 at Randolph this week?

Yup.  Most interesting meeting I've ever been in that didn't involve discussion about blowing shit up.  Refreshing to see a 3 button getting basically yelled at by a room full of crusty O-3s and O-4s.  Some big takeaways:

1.  He came into the meeting incredibly insulated from what is going on.  His disconnect from reality was no fault of his own, but very clear.  For example, he couldn't wrap his head around guys not wanting to be "developed" by way of ACSC and other PME.  Also was unaware of some of the buffoonery going on such as Vance being dry, the elimination of additional duties memo being largely ignored, and the perception that the AF is at best incompetent in the way it handles people, and at worst malicious.  It was obvious that the O-4s he is surrounded are the pickle shining types would would rather die than tell the boss bad news.  We didn't have that problem, and he wasn't sure how to react.

2.  "There is a plan in the work, trust us".  Supposedly there is a 28 point plan of some kind floating around to address the retention issue.  See point 1 for his reaction to our skepticism of it.

3.  He doesn't even know that he is fed a steady diet of bullshit.  He told a story of a great base visit he went on, and was dismissive when told to take everything he sees on a base visit with the biggest grain of salt he can fit on the jet he rode in on.  He didn't realize that whenever guys like him show up, guys like the ones in that room get stuffed in a closet.

4.  Stop loss is off the table.  CSAF realizes that even IF they could get a stop loss approved (unlikely) it will permanently break any chance they have at retention.  They'd get a temporary bump from locking guys down, but they know that as soon as that lockdown inevitably ends, EVERYONE leaves, not just the people who were on the fence before.

So maybe we opened his eyes, but even if we did, points 1 and 3 above kinda indicate that at best he will be one more voice yelling at the brick wall.  The AF is chronically averse to making the kind of changes necessary to retain pilots, and will continue to hemorrhage talent.

[Duck]

Yup.  Most interesting meeting I've ever been in that didn't involve discussion about blowing shit up.  Refreshing to see a 3 button getting basically yelled at by a room full of crusty O-3s and O-4s.  Some big takeaways:

1.  He came into the meeting incredibly insulated from what is going on.  His disconnect from reality was no fault of his own, but very clear.  For example, he couldn't wrap his head around guys not wanting to be "developed" by way of ACSC and other PME.  Also was unaware of some of the buffoonery going on such as Vance being dry, the elimination of additional duties memo being largely ignored, and the perception that the AF is at best incompetent in the way it handles people, and at worst malicious.  It was obvious that the O-4s he is surrounded are the pickle shining types would would rather die than tell the boss bad news.  We didn't have that problem, and he wasn't sure how to react.

2.  "There is a plan in the work, trust us".  Supposedly there is a 28 point plan of some kind floating around to address the retention issue.  See point 1 for his reaction to our skepticism of it.

3.  He doesn't even know that he is fed a steady diet of bullshit.  He told a story of a great base visit he went on, and was dismissive when told to take everything he sees on a base visit with the biggest grain of salt he can fit on the jet he rode in on.  He didn't realize that whenever guys like him show up, guys like the ones in that room get stuffed in a closet.

4.  Stop loss is off the table.  CSAF realizes that even IF they could get a stop loss approved (unlikely) it will permanently break any chance they have at retention.  They'd get a temporary bump from locking guys down, but they know that as soon as that lockdown inevitably ends, EVERYONE leaves, not just the people who were on the fence before.

So maybe we opened his eyes, but even if we did, points 1 and 3 above kinda indicate that at best he will be one more voice yelling at the brick wall.  The AF is chronically averse to making the kind of changes necessary to retain pilots, and will continue to hemorrhage talent.

I don't know why, but this is all just hilarious to me.

 

Thanks for taking the bullet and speaking out to the clueless above us.

 

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[BashiChuni]

if i were him first thing i'd do is call the vance OG and ask him what the hell does he think his dry policy is going to achieve

[yatalpan]

19 hours ago, panchbarnes said:

Don't worry, things aren't that much better for the rest of the DoD. 

IT trouble tickets are backed up 7-8 months out because of a new (cheaper) contracting company that came onboard last year.  Many machines and VTCs don't work, the only way to get something fixed in a timely fashion is via the bro-network.

 We had a vosip phone trouble ticket submitted on Nov 4, 2016.  I called one night to check in it in March and was told the trouble ticket was closed because the airman that submitted it PCSd.  After I recovered from my aneurysm I had to walk in to the J6 (AF SES) deputies office the next duty day and plead for help.  It got fixed but it should not take begging.

Edited May 10, 2017 by yatalpan

[DirtyFlightSuit]

Napoleon I think you give the 3 star to much credit with his ignorance.  If he has allowed himself to be that ignorant of our issues then he is a poster child to what is wrong with our leadership.  Prior to the meeting I was warned that he was going in there guns blazing completely off tilt on what our actual gripes and concerns were.  His 20+ Min introduction boiled down to:

"We need you guys, so please stay because you know were at war dropping these exploding thingies called bombs every day, and please pretty please trust us we will take care of you, but really we are so engaged around the world and know we are over taxed but you know war so be patriotic and shit suck it up and sign the damned bonus."  

Followed by the room throwing every possible pitch fork and torch at him.  He didn't even have any one in the room taking notes on our concerns, and only when he heard a few specific items he would possibly make an effect on did he steal some paper from some one to write any thing down.  His closing statement you could tell was made ignoring every thing he just heard and went back to the please god stay in the Air Force because really our 28 initiatives are crap, we are "Working" and "talking" about these fixes but really nothing is going to change but maybe if I plead enough you will be dumb enough to stay in.

Just my two cents...  I think most every one came out of there more negative than going in.  I know I did.