What's wrong with the Air Force?

[Chuck17]

On July 31, 2016 at 5:23 AM, Champ Kind said:

The MAF is finally starting to get to a point where it knows what to do with weapons officers, but not all (arguably most) senior raters have caught up to those in the CAF. Not helping is that many MAF squadron commanders look at WOs as crack PROJOs that they can fire & forget on those hot high-vis (and non-tactical) taskers from their bosses and produce desired results to pad their performance reports. All because, to them, these guys/gals went to a 6-month school where prioritization and time management were keys to success and that makes them uniquely qualified to do something that really any officer could pull off (not to mention if it's something anyone should be bothering with anyway). They justify it by saying those projects give you "breadth" where WIC gives you "depth" and that boards don't care about how well you trained the FNGs or built/added to a squadron mindset.

Right. 

The MAF doesn't have a patch problem. The MAF may in fact have an O-6 problem. Until CC's who grew up with patches reach the O-6 level (talking my own community here) it won't stop. It's starting... But until there is an across the board understanding of the roles and responsibilities, it won't change. Case in point, there is a whole reg that governs how patches will be used, placed, developed. AFI 11-415 I think. It was hell convincing wing level leadership that it is a no-shit reg that applied to their wing. It took a unit compliance inspection ding for squadron leadership to pull their heads out. That's not good, and admittedly was almost five years ago, but it's getting better...

And there will always be the one who gets shit done, who's smart, has a good rep, and good hands, who gets pulled into the bosses circle (read: exec, though I've never been one) so he can get pushed. That's how the game is played. Not for all but for some. You can rage against it or accept and drive on. What shouldn't be happening is wing/cc's hoarding the smart people, insulating their nests. Doing it to push a guy, okay. Doing it to the detriment of the squadrons, tread lightly.

To Champ's point: The fire and forget mentality is something that happens everywhere, it's just that it is exasterbated in the MAF because you have plenty of folks that spent their careers inside an insular community, generally devoid of integration with the rest of the USAF, in command of units that are now doing more integrating, both in training and in mission execution -- and these captains and majors wearing the target on their arms are speaking a language they don't speak, doing things they were never trained to do. Not just with other Air Force units but with the Army too. So they are forced to trust them.

Once proven, they go back to that well... Again, and again, and again. I've been on the receiving and am now on the giving end of having patches working for me - they're the easy button. It takes disciplined leadership to do it right and make sure everyone, not just your bright shiney project, benefits from having them in the squadron. YMMV.

Chuck

Edited August 2, 2016 by Chuck17
Clarity

[Chuck17]

9 hours ago, LumberjackAxe said:

But I'm not sure having a full blown WO course would be necessary. I think that knowledge gap could be easily closed with much more feasible methods, such as a local upgrade or cert--I'm guessing that the amount of training that a would-be MAF "Patch" or equivalent needs probably doesn't warrant an entire WO course. 

Perhaps. Certainly not a requirement for all to attend. It'd be nice if we could up the collective game/understanding of the communities writ-large, but that's why we send guys to Nellis it the first place, right?

I remain unconvinced there is any other way to go about educating the uneducated to that level - and that's the requirement right now. You cannot build a Rosetta Stone without learning a different language - that language is taught through integration, employment, planning, etc. Nothing else comes close. I've done every course a MAF guy can do - nothing compares to the experience and knowledge gained at Nellis.

Chuck

Edited August 2, 2016 by Chuck17

[Warrior]

Perhaps. Certainly not a requirement for all to attend. It'd be nice if we could up the collective game/understanding of the communities writ-large, but that's why we send guys to Nellis it the first place, right?

I remain unconvinced there is any other way to go about educating the uneducated to that level - and that's the requirement right now. You cannot build a Rosetta Stone without learning a different language - that language is taught through integration, employment, planning, etc. Nothing else comes close. I've done every course a MAF guy can do - nothing compares to the experience and knowledge gained at Nellis.

Chuck

Chuck is right.

Lumberjack-that in house stuff you're talking about is called BATS. Which everyone should be doing anyway

[Longhorn15]

7 hours ago, ViperStud said:

When Libya kicked off, wasn't the AFRICOM/CC a tanker chick?  I heard through the bro network about a few Viper patches getting there as planning kicked off and the word is that she was assholes and elbows and got a pat on the head for her "nice try" at coming up with a gameplan.

I'm sure the story was full of hyperbole by the time it got to the masses, but even if 10% true it speaks to a significant problem. 

Way more than 10% true.  "Maggie" was totally clueless, even the tanker plan sucked. 

[matmacwc]

Was she the one that wouldn't let the Vipers bomb this piss out of the downed Eagle?

[Longhorn15]

 

44 minutes ago, matmacwc said:

Was she the one that wouldn't let the Vipers bomb this piss out of the downed Eagle?

Yes, we had to destroy our own jet a few days later.  Not sure which is worse...

[Herk Driver]

When Libya kicked off, wasn't the AFRICOM/CC a tanker chick?  I heard through the bro network about a few Viper patches getting there as planning kicked off and the word is that she was assholes and elbows and got a pat on the head for her "nice try" at coming up with a gameplan.

I'm sure the story was full of hyperbole by the time it got to the masses, but even if 10% true it speaks to a significant problem. 

The AFRICOM/CC has never been an AF GO.

Maj Gen Woodward, 17 AF/CC, maybe?

[Champ Kind]

18 hours ago, Chuck17 said:

Doing it to the detriment of the squadrons, tread lightly.

Exactly what I have seen happen.

[SurelySerious]

Just in case you were wondering where Gen. Woodward was now...

15. June 2010 - April 2012, Commander, 17th Air Force, Ramstein AB, Germany.

16. May 2012 - September 2012, Acting Director, Operational Planning, Policy & Strategy, Deputy Chief of Staff, Operations, Plans and Requirements, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C. 

17. September 2012 - June 2013, Air Force Chief of Safety, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C., and Commander, Air Force Safety Center, Kirtland AFB, N.M.

18. June 2013 - present, Director, Air Force Sexual Assault Prevention and Response Office, Office of the Vice Chief of Staff, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C.

No longer, since spring 2014 when Gen Grosso took over and Woodward retired.

[Inertia17]

Plan to cut airmen's extra duties coming in weeks

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Danger41]

I'll believe it when I see it.

[Champ Kind]

This will require "yes men" commanders to come up on the net and admit that they need help... I have a feeling that the units that need it the most when not see any sweeping changes.

[viper154]

Unrelated to above,I am doing sport bitching here, but this is what is wrong with the AF. I got non vol UPT direct to RPAs. So be it, needs of the AF, undermanned career field blah blah blah. Holloman was a shit show, but they are undermanned and over worked, so be it. I have now been at my operarional base for 4 months, with about 15 other pilots/sensors that have been here just as long, if not longer. We have done ONE sim in 4 months. ing ONE sim, no flights. How can you justify sending manned pilots you just spent $1.2 million a pop to train to drones, and having them sit on their ass. 

Rant off. Back to my whisky. 

[scoobs]

Why? 

[guineapigfury]

Viper154, does your location rhyme with Schmannon?

[viper154]

22 minutes ago, guineapigfury said:

Viper154, does your location rhyme with Schmannon?

Indeed it does. 

Edited August 4, 2016 by viper154

[WTFAF]

Why? 

Choke yourself.

[scoobs]

14 hours ago, WTFAF said:

Choke yourself.

Why :)

[guineapigfury]

[Fuzz]

Has anyone seen Gen Goldfein's letter about the squadron being the beating heart of the Air Force? I could be wrong but it looks like he plagiarized JQPs "fake speech". I'm still holding out but things might be looking up.

[pawnman]

8 hours ago, Fuzz said:

Has anyone seen Gen Goldfein's letter about the squadron being the beating heart of the Air Force? I could be wrong but it looks like he plagiarized JQPs "fake speech". I'm still holding out but things might be looking up.

I guess we'll have to wait and see if Gen Goldfein does anything to fix the squadrons.  Step one would be manning.

[Lord Ratner]

Wanna help? I'm at sos now and we're doing the "think tank" on that very letter. Think tank sounds lame, I know, but they have at least given us free reign to design the process. I set up a Reddit page for people to add ideas and vote on others. The more we get, the better. You'll need a Reddit account, but if you're like me and have been bitching about this topic for years, this is a way to be heard. Anyone here who knows me knows I won't sugar coat the feedback for staff officer consumption, and we are presenting the info to at least two generals at the end of the month.

https://www.Reddit.com/r/SquadronFocus

Please at least go and vote on all the ideas in there. Thanks,

Seth

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[Duck]

Ratner you know that Think Tank is only designed to give the O-6 a bullet point to champion to his bosses right? But at least you will walk away with a DG for your efforts (most likely).

[Lord Ratner]

I'm no stranger to Air Force programs. If you think I'm getting DG, you should have a chat with my Flt/CC here. And since my promotion board to O-4 will be completed before I finish SOS, it wouldn't do much anyways. 

I'm doing it because I raged long and hard for years about the title of this thread. Period. They scrapped the original think tank and targeted this one to the CSAF's letter, and I like most others here thought the letter was a spot-on representation of the things we've bitched about for years on BO.net.

I'm no fool. I had dreams of unicorns and magic carpet rides when the last CSAF got rid of Blues Mondays. I will not be similarly enraptured by mere letters from the new CSAF. But after being here for only a week and listening to the various levels of leadership at AU talk about the problems, I haven't found much to disagree with.

I spent all day yesterday in Destin with a beer in my hand soaking up some significant skin cancer fuel. Friday we ate crappy tacos and watched our classmates hit each other in the face with padded sticks, Thursday we went to trivia night at a bar, Wednesday we ate brats and watched a baseball game. Again, all with a beer in my hand. Classes have been almost entirely focused on leadership theory and application, which pilots often lack based on our limited CGO leadership opportunities. And the geeky "think tank" instructions were to use whatever means and methods we choose to gather unfiltered opinions from across the ranks and figure out how to begin solving (it's only four weeks, after all) the single greatest issue fueling bitch-fests in every flying squadron heritage room AF-wide. 

Maybe I'm just the luckiest pilot ever to go through SOS, but I gotta say fellas, if this is the experience we've been raging against for so long, maybe we really have lost touch. I wouldn't have turned SOS down three times if I knew it was like this. 

Anyways, /rant. Not attacking you, Duck, but I've been facing an existential crisis here because I was expecting to be the lone naysayer in an ocean of shoe-clerk Kool-Aid, and even when the SNCO Academy students came over to "cross-talk," we had a hard time finding topics to disagree over. 

Maybe things are so bad that everyone at the squadron levels, officer and enlisted, are finally aligning against the same malignancy. Or maybe they gave me a Kool-Aid enema on day one and I don't remember it. Either way, I could use the help from the one forum that has done more to articulate the problems we face than any think tank or focus group Maxwell could ever assemble. And all you have to do is click some up and down arrows in a website. 

 

[WTFAF]

Maybe I'm just the luckiest pilot ever to go through SOS, but I gotta say fellas, if this is the experience we've been raging against for so long, maybe we really have lost touch. I wouldn't have turned SOS down three times if I knew it was like this.

Sounds about 180 out from my experience in that shithole. But glad to hear things are much improved for you. Seriously. Although I'm jaded to the point that I'm not sure things will change AF-wide for the better. But I'm willing to suspend disbelief, and check out your work. Keep it up.