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Sneedro

Tanker to Fighter

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19 minutes ago, Hacker said:

A sample of guys that "did fairly well" among how many peers who followed a similar path and did not do so well?

Roughly 10% of pilots are FAIPs. Not sure what percentage of old dudes were crossflows, but I'd guess it's fairly small. Obviously, it would take a lot of time to do some actual research, but there are numerous guys that have gotten far even when they were "late" to get to the CAF. The last 4 of 5 CSAFs did not start their career in their primary MDS.

http://www.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/108013/general-david-l-goldfein/

http://www.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/104966/general-mark-a-welsh-iii/

https://web.archive.org/web/20070509075634/http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=6545

http://www.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/104697/general-john-p-jumper/

http://www.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/108121/general-stephen-w-seve-wilson/

Some more examples of 2nd assignment CAF pilots. Over the course of a 20-30 year career, getting to the CAF 3 years late isn't that much of a delay. In most MDSes, you're even able to get to weapons school (if you bust your ass). So I don't buy this nonsense about crossflow being a career killer.

 

Edited by Seriously

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8 hours ago, Duck said:


It's all a test to see how those 8 will do. Judging by how AMC defines "success" I expect around 4-6 Gp Execs get slotted for this and the program ends up crashing and burning just like all the higher ups are hoping it will. But at least they can say "we tried!"


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Naw man, just group execs? Obviously they weren't tier one.  Maybe if they were wing execs! Better yet, aide-de-camps. I mean that's what the Air Force values these days.

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Most the WG Execs I know are too old for this program. Exceptions exist, but of the year groups they are looking to crossflow, the T-38 drops were pretty good. Makes me wonder just what kind of talent they are going to be able to scrape up.


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wins the Nighthawk Trophy as the top F-117 pilot in their fleet-wide competition.

Was the main event who could monitor their autopilot the best? All kidding aside, real curious on what a -117 competition consisted of.


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Palace Chase Question: Active duty pilot (non- T-38) to ANG fighter squadron. I’ve heard that this is possible, but how? Asumming the unit wants to hire you, how do you get spun up in the T-38?

1. T-38 (where/how?)

2. IFF

3. B-Course 

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On 1/24/2018 at 2:03 AM, AD2ANG said:

Palace Chase Question: Active duty pilot (non- T-38) to ANG fighter squadron. I’ve heard that this is possible, but how? Asumming the unit wants to hire you, how do you get spun up in the T-38?

1. T-38 (where/how?)

2. IFF

3. B-Course 

T-38 transition at KRND likely followed by IFF at KRND. 

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yup, so-called D course at PIT. It's not just for non-T38 priors, TPS heavy bound guys and initial qual only topoffs (RPA support T38 drivers at Edwards) also get an spin up. It sucks a lot for the never 38 at UPT, unless that dude happened to have some A model time in some CTP program, at which point it's a distinction without difference. 

Cold turkey D-course to IFF? The struggle bus rate is high on that one. These days I consider that squarely in the personal favor/legacy case, for a unit to spend the money to send you to T-38 topoff and IFF to wingman as a senior Capt/junior Major. AFRC has deeper pockets so presumably it wouldn't be as noticeable on the money fund (school tours are central funded by the MAJCOM), though it would still fall in the PFA bucket.  A guard unit would stand more to lose financially, considering the high washout rate of such a stunt. I will say though, today is probably the best time to pull that, as IFF is pretty hamburger helper these days with this whole pilot shortage canard. Back in 04- 07? Crush city.

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I've seen it once circa 2009.  Dude was hired to fly Vipers back in the day, but his squadron converted to tankers before UPT.  He ended up flying T-1s and spent  4-5 years flying tankers before he got a Viper squadron to sponsor him.  They sent him to RND for some sort of condensed 38 program then up to SPS for IFF.  Washed out and re-instated at IFF.  Ended up washing out toward the end of the B-Course.  Good dude that seemed to try hard, just wasn't in the cards.

For a grass isn't always greener anecdote, I know quite a few guys that are leaving fighter to go fly tankers/UAVs/etc...  Some have to do with toxic leadership within their squadrons, others it's just a general ease of part time life kind of thing.  A few more have just bailed on flying all together and filled Academy Liaison or AOC gigs.

Either way, goodluck!

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On 1/27/2018 at 9:24 AM, Standby said:

T-38 transition at KRND likely followed by IFF at KRND. 

And just for an anecdote, there was a recent guard UPT graduate that switched to a fighter unit in UPT but was T-1s. He went to RND right after UPT and did the T-38 Transition aka Phase III lite. He should be in IFF right now.

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On 1/27/2018 at 11:46 PM, hindsight2020 said:

yup, so-called D course at PIT. It's not just for non-T38 priors, TPS heavy bound guys and initial qual only topoffs (RPA support T38 drivers at Edwards) also get an spin up. It sucks a lot for the never 38 at UPT, unless that dude happened to have some A model time in some CTP program, at which point it's a distinction without difference. 

Cold turkey D-course to IFF? The struggle bus rate is high on that one. These days I consider that squarely in the personal favor/legacy case, for a unit to spend the money to send you to T-38 topoff and IFF to wingman as a senior Capt/junior Major. AFRC has deeper pockets so presumably it wouldn't be as noticeable on the money fund (school tours are central funded by the MAJCOM), though it would still fall in the PFA bucket.  A guard unit would stand more to lose financially, considering the high washout rate of such a stunt. I will say though, today is probably the best time to pull that, as IFF is pretty hamburger helper these days with this whole pilot shortage canard. Back in 04- 07? Crush city.

this is guard only correct? there's no one getting sent after say being T-1 trained and T-6 FAIPing?

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5 hours ago, 12xu2a3x3 said:

this is guard only correct? there's no one getting sent after say being T-1 trained and T-6 FAIPing?

I have no SA on who regAF cross flows these days and how. My comments dealt with the ARC. 100% chance of not getting whatever if you don't ask, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it as a plan A. The scope of my comment was just to highlight there is a conduit to cross flow dude a non-38 guy outside of UPT, rare as it may be. 

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4 minutes ago, hindsight2020 said:

I have no SA on who regAF cross flows these days and how. My comments dealt with the ARC. 100% chance of not getting whatever if you don't ask, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it as a plan A. The scope of my comment was just to highlight there is a conduit to cross flow dude a non-38 guy outside of UPT, rare as it may be. 

2, thanks

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A former 135 guy is about to go through the 22 b course here at Tyndall. As far as I know, he did 38 White jets last assignment...so he went straight to IFF

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On 5/19/2018 at 2:04 AM, Harambe said:

Would a T-38 trained heavy driver have a shot at crossflow?

Absolutely, and it's happening more now that the 38 side of the UPT IP landscape has been stacked with heavy drivers. Numerical necessity has created pressure on the ol' "airframe ethnocentric" apartheid of Air Force pilot tracks. It's still statistically insignificant, but more examples are becoming a reality, which is a good thing considering the barn doors are already wide open and the horses have largely left the barn in this airline hiring wave.

46 minutes ago, Dude636 said:

A former 135 guy is about to go through the 22 b course here at Tyndall. As far as I know, he did 38 White jets last assignment...so he went straight to IFF

Yup, we had an C-17 (38 UPT tracked) guy finish his 38 white jet and go straight to IFF enroute to Strikes. 

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On 5/19/2018 at 12:04 AM, Harambe said:

Would a T-38 trained heavy driver have a shot at crossflow?

I don't see why not, the younger the better, so not set in their ways.  I'd still go ANG or AFRC though, switching airframe's isn't a career "do over", in a lot of ways you'll be a red headed step child, but still a red headed step child that fly's fighters for one or two assignments.  

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9 hours ago, Dude636 said:

A former 135 guy is about to go through the 22 b course here at Tyndall. As far as I know, he did 38 White jets last assignment...so he went straight to IFF

Semantics, but it was actually the C-17 guy that was coming from a white jet tour. The 135 guy did a requal in 38s at Randolph, then IFF. Great dude.

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2 minutes ago, Switch408 said:

Semantics, but it was actually the C-17 guy that was coming from a white jet tour. The 135 guy did a requal in 38s at Randolph, then IFF. Great dude.

Huge “2” on both points

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2 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

FWIW one of the c-17 crossflow guys was DG at IFF. 

Good for him! Although It probably helped that he spent the last 3 years mastering the T-38, while his IFF classmates had just finished UPT.  Regardless, it shows that MAF to CAF can be successful.  Hopefully he continues to excel in the B course. 

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I know a herk dude in vipers. If a prop guy can do it, anyone can!

Back in the 90’s it was more common. I flew with some awesome guys who went from herks to F-15C and A-10’s. Even a helo guy who went to fighters

I found they had great perspective and probably appreciated their fighter more than others who knew nothing different.
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