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Pilot Shortage Deepens, USAF is SCREWED.

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16 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

Nothing like coming in for the 500kt break after doing a 4vX with three of your best friends against PL-12 shooters!

If pilots did more of that and less of everything else, they wouldn't be stampeding the exit door for a job flying 136kt ILS finals.

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28 minutes ago, nunya said:

If pilots did more of that and less of everything else, they wouldn't be stampeding the exit door for a job flying 136kt ILS finals.

Truth

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2 hours ago, nunya said:

... stampeding the exit door for a job flying 136kt ILS finals.

136??  Apparently, you don't fly the 737-900ER.  

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10 hours ago, nunya said:

If pilots did more of that and less of everything else, they wouldn't be stampeding the exit door for a job flying 136kt ILS finals.

I've never bought that line of reasoning. I think it's more about the fact that it's pretty f*cked up to turn down a massive improvement in income and quality of life to drag your family from base to base, suffering through deployments and taking a massive paycut just because you want to wear a bag and go fast.

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12 hours ago, nunya said:

If pilots did more of that and less of everything else, they wouldn't be stampeding the exit door for a job flying 136kt ILS finals.

Ummmm, I did a 170kt break this afternoon in my RV which was paid for by my job flying 136kt ILS finals.

N67AW.jpg

Edited by Springer
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8 hours ago, joe1234 said:

I've never bought that line of reasoning. I think it's more about the fact that it's pretty f*cked up to turn down a massive improvement in income and quality of life to drag your family from base to base, suffering through deployments and taking a massive paycut just because you want to wear a bag and go fast.

Certainly there's more to it than 500kt breaks, but most deployments fall under the "everything else" category.  OAIX or OTBH stan-eval for 365 isn't exactly Mav-worthy.

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8 hours ago, Springer said:

Ummmm, I did a 170kt break this afternoon in my RV which was paid for by my job flying 136kt ILS finals.

N67AW.jpg

Curious...did you build it or buy it already built?

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12 hours ago, joe1234 said:

I've never bought that line of reasoning. I think it's more about the fact that it's pretty f*cked up to turn down a massive improvement in income and quality of life to drag your family from base to base, suffering through deployments and taking a massive paycut just because you want to wear a bag and go fast.

You know, Joe, the "military life" isn't for everyone.  You're certainly not the only one that has made a similar statement/post, and it is certainly not my goal to poke you in the eye.  I simply have a different outlook I'd like to share.    

While you consider my decision to stay in "fucked up", I certainly didn't, and I "wore the bag" for 28 years.  It's a "service to the country".  There's sacrifice involved.  And my family got to be a part of that experience.  No, my kids didn't get much of a vote.  The career decision was mine to make.  

You're right:  I could have improved my "income" had I separated at the end of my 6-year UPT commitment, but more money wasn't my goal.  

As for "improved quality of life"... that's a personal matter.  Serving as a USAF pilot was my dream... and I was living my dream.  The satisfaction I had in doing my service was my "good QOL".  And my kids relish their time living on base.  They were very happy times.  

I signed up to serve.  And when I got married, she agreed to it too.  Oh yeah... she was a military brat who never stayed anywhere more than 3 years while growing up.  

I guess the lifestyle rubbed off on my oldest kid, who is now a Lieutenant, and commissioned despite outsiders saying it was a stupid decision, based on civilian career potential due to graduating from a prestigious private university.  Said Lt is apparently fucked up like dad.  

As for me, I could have been an civilian engineer like my dad, who had a PhD.  I went to 4 different high schools in 4 years.  Is that fucked up QOL in your book, and is my dad to blame?  I meet people now that say "my oldest is in 7th grade, so we need to stay h ere until he graduates".  Really?  Well, ok. If that's what they need, then so be it.  To me, it seems odd when they only reason is that "they are established in football" or "with their friends".  But I respect it.  They know their family's needs better than anyone (hopefully).

Having spent 18 months as the Executive Director of a very interesting civilian group after I retired, I can tell you the experience was worse than being on active duty in many respects.  The AF isn't the only organization doing things terribly wrong and inefficient.  

If you want the money, and hate the QOL, then don't join the military.  And if you make that realization while you're in, get out at your earliest opportunity.  Many of my friends did just that.  But in my case... as bad as things had become in the AF by the time I left in 2014... I still looked forward to going to work every day.  

Edited by HuggyU2
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10 hours ago, Springer said:

Ummmm, I did a 170kt break this afternoon in my RV which was paid for by my job flying 136kt ILS finals.

N67AW.jpg

Want. 

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12 hours ago, Springer said:

Ummmm, I did a 170kt break this afternoon in my RV which was paid for by my job flying 136kt ILS finals.

N67AW.jpg

RV-8's are bad-ass...

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2 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

You know, Joe, the "military life" isn't for everyone.  You're certainly not the only one that has made a similar statement/post, and it is certainly not my goal to poke you in the eye.  I simply have a different outlook I'd like to share.    

In more words than I would have used, agree with your sentiment. My decision to stay in is driven by a couple motivating factors, but when the job is more suck than fun and when the family is unnecessarily suffering from AF-induced bullshit then I’ll know it’s time to punch. For now, it’s still a hoot so I’ll keep collecting my government welfare check. 

Edited by Standby

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2 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

 But in my case... as bad as things had become in the AF by the time I left in 2014... I still looked forward to going to work every day.  

Jealous... I find zero job satisfaction on my third exec gig; nor do I wake up excited to go to work. I love the chances (which are minimal) when I get to fly, and I signed up for the QoL, as did my wife. But you’d be hard pressed to convince me that 12 hour workdays editing endless awards is “serving my country.” Pretty sure my wife would understand my absence better if my long days had a direct impact on national security. To each their own I suppose. 

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Jealous... I find zero job satisfaction on my third exec gig; nor do I wake up excited to go to work.

Damn, who did you piss off for that triple-decker-sh-t sandwich?

I was complaining to my wife tonight about two days back to back top-3 tours.

You illustrate a HUGE problem as to 2018 USAF pilot realities. Who wouldn’t leave for the airlines.
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6 hours ago, RTB said:

Curious...did you build it or buy it already built?

Same...I'm receiving the first part of my plane kit tomorrow.  Not an RV though.

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6 hours ago, BroncoEN said:

Jealous... I find zero job satisfaction on my third exec gig; nor do I wake up excited to go to work. I love the chances (which are minimal) when I get to fly, and I signed up for the QoL, as did my wife. But you’d be hard pressed to convince me that 12 hour workdays editing endless awards is “serving my country.” Pretty sure my wife would understand my absence better if my long days had a direct impact on national security. To each their own I suppose. 

Sounds like a good time to look for the door.  
When people ask if I'm going to stay in, I usually answer, "If I get to the end of my commitment, and still like my job."  If that answer to that question is a "no," it's time to look elsewhere.

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7 hours ago, Stitch said:

RV-8's are bad-ass...

Yep but keep it light and simple.  Having flown my entire life with either a back seater, student, someone in the right or left seat, wingman etc,  it's great to fly solo and reflect.  Huggy with his U-2 experience can probably relate.  

67AW Interior.jpg

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Yep but keep it light and simple.  Having flown my entire life with either a back seater, student, someone in the right or left seat, wingman etc,  it's great to fly solo and reflect.  Huggy with his U-2 experience can probably relate.  
5ad56ee644d41_67AWInterior.thumb.jpg.28ec6b7ade48561477045c09066574f5.jpg
How much to purchase, if I may ask?

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1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:
8 hours ago, Springer said:
Yep but keep it light and simple.  Having flown my entire life with either a back seater, student, someone in the right or left seat, wingman etc,  it's great to fly solo and reflect.  Huggy with his U-2 experience can probably relate.  
5ad56ee644d41_67AWInterior.thumb.jpg.28ec6b7ade48561477045c09066574f5.jpg

How much to purchase, if I may ask?

It really depends on the build quality and what's on the panel.   I've seen RV-8s go anywhere from $80k - $135k.  They are really holding their resale value well.

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Huggy, I've enjoyed reading your posts for the last 10+ years and I can't say I know exactly what your career has entailed, but I'm pretty sure it is a bit different than most dudes who have joined in the last 15 years. It only makes sense that your outlook from the U-2 and the T-38 is different. "service to the country" and sacrifice is in the eye of the beholder, and some continue to value that more than other things, and thus choose to stay. Unfortunately, what joe1234 said is what the air force and the airlines have provided us, a decision that is becoming easier and easier to make with our feet.

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T-Pain, 

I'm not arguing with you one bit.  Please understand I'm not pontificating and stating you must have the job satisfaction I did.  My career was exceptional... and unique.. and I spent a lot of mental time planning through various things to make it go my way.  No doubt I was fortunate in things I couldn't control.  Even my U-2 cohorts will tell you I had a charmed career.  

Had things gone for me like they went for some other people on here, I'm sure I would have separated or retired before my 28 years.  I remember sitting in front of the Alconbury MPF (CBPO for you old guys) when my UPT commitment ended and the bonus was offered.  "Get out or stay in?"  I sat in my car with the engine running for about 30 minutes questioning the decision.  In the end, I went in and signed up for 6 more years (or whatever it was).  Glad I did.  

Here's the bottom line.  My overly-long post yesterday was simply aimed at Joe's statement:  

"it's pretty f*cked up to turn down a massive improvement in income and quality of life to drag your family from base to base, suffering through deployments and taking a massive paycut just because you want to wear a bag and go fast."

That rubs me the wrong way.  Big time.  I've heard this sentiment from others, and I've heard it often:  that my selfishness and unwillingness to leave the military has caused my family pain and suffering, and a reduction in their quality of life.  I'd be a rich airline Captain, had I separated at the 6 year point, right?  And my lack of seeing the big picture financially has prevented my family from being wealthier.  And my time away from home negatively affected my kids... as opposed to the 18 months I was Executive Director and when I was home, I was in my office working from 1900-2300 most nights, and unable to do stuff on the weekends.  There's more to QOL than meets the eye.  

I really don't think that's what Joe's message really was intended to be... but that's what I hear when I read people that post "you're crazy and doing a disservice to your family if you stay in 1 day past your commitment".

I've had U-2 guys seek my advice, and in some cases I've told them they should leave the AF at the end of their current commitment.  If I was in their shoes, I'd certainly do it.  And had I gotten the fighter I wanted out of UPT, I doubt I would have lasted beyond my 6 year commitment.  It turns out the U-2 Program was the perfect fit for me.  I only left because they threw me out.  

I do not begrudge anyone that leaves when they are done.  They gave 6, 8, 10 years of their life to the country, and deserve every ounce of my respect.  

But don't tell me I'm fucked up because I decided to stay for 28.  

 

Edited by HuggyU2
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On 4/17/2018 at 11:25 PM, HuggyU2 said:

That rubs me the wrong way.  Big time.  I've heard this sentiment from others, and I've heard it often:  that my selfishness and unwillingness to leave the military has caused my family pain and suffering, and a reduction in their quality of life.  I'd be a rich airline Captain, had I separated at the 6 year point, right?  And my lack of seeing the big picture financially has prevented my family from being wealthier.  And my time away from home negatively affected my kids... as opposed to the 18 months I was Executive Director and when I was home, I was in my office working from 1900-2300 most nights, and unable to do stuff on the weekends.  There's more to QOL than meets the eye. 

My dad was a pilot but my Mom thought we would butt heads if he taught me to fly so she arranged for a close family friend who was a senior Pilot at Delta to be my first instructor.  The guy was a legend who did many incredible things in his life and wrote books about his adventures )sailed a six foot boat across the Atlantic by himself.)  I really looked up to him until the day after I soloed.  I was in his hangar on his private flying ranch when he pulled me aside and said "you needed to get that military flying thing out of my system and get a real job."  He went as far as to show me his paystub which was incomprehensible money to a kid in 1986.  I was kind of taken aback, when I looked around the guy had several planes, cars motorcycle and boats, he obviously had  a lot of money but he did not value military service.  Oddly I ran into his years later when my hometown made a big deal about getting some medals in Afghanistan, he was all smiles and handshakes, "you done good kid!"  I never looked at him the same. 

As for Huggy, how about as a dedicated American who served his country he also taught his children about service, sacrifice, and something more than the almighty dollar.  As a senior officer I routinely met with folks who decided to get out.  I never required a meeting if someone dropped their papers, most of the meetings were requested by folks I had mentored and decided to get out or through chance interactions.  My first statement was ALWAYS "thank you for your service, what can I do to help with your next chapter."  As Huggy noted, giving any period of your life to military service buys my everlasting gratitude, you have done more than 99% of the population and I am honored to shake your hand if it was 2 years or 28.

In my humble opinion, Huggy is a fucking hero and though we are not close friends, I dare say his family has done just fine, in spite of his 28 years of service.

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