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disgruntledemployee

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3 hours ago, pcola said:

I’m genuinely curious to hear from a few pro-Biden/never-Trumpers just exactly what do you foresee that will improve in your life under a Biden presidency. Will your job security/satisfaction increase? Your wealth or family’s security? Your satisfaction with your identity as an American? I for one have a negative outlook on all of those areas. Curious to hear other perspectives.
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I’m genuinely curious as to what you thought would improve under Trump as well. I think the president really does a lot less than people give credit, but I still voted opposite you.

Since you said you’re genuinely curious, here’s a few points:

1) I believe a lot more of America’s influence in the world comes from soft power than people realize. How the world perceives our president is important, and worldwide public perception of the status of America is at an all time low, in part due to rough rhetoric. I think this could improve.

2) I believe basic, preventative healthcare should be a fundamental right for the working class. This has a higher likelihood of happening now. Will be good for my children.

3) I don’t believe in social conservatism even slightly. Protect the rights to abortion/birth control/gay rights. Keep religion separate.

4) One of the biggest ones is probably income inequality. Trickle down economics does not work. I don’t care how many times you’ve been spoon fed that line. Productivity over the last 50 years has gone up - wages have stayed the same (inflation). The system is rigged against America’s youth whether you look at college that costs 70k a year (look up the costs), a dwindling job market (it’s been like this pre-Covid) that was propped up by min wage gig economy jobs, or the disastrous housing crisis. I’m glad I’m in the military, as it solved a lot of these problems, but is the American dream still alive as much as everyone says it is? Policies to increase min wage, provide healthcare, reduce student loans, support unions/workers rights - these will benefit the whole of America. It’s hard to vote for a “billionaire” who literally paid less than I did in tax for multiple years. And before you say he was just playing by the rules, if he cared about the system, he would make a concerted effort to fix the glitches.

5) Responses to pandemics or emergencies will actually have compassion or an iota of human decency. Handling of things like Puerto Rico or COVID have been terribly politicized and divisive for the nation when they shouldn’t have been.

6) The federal reserve has been used for quantitative easing in a dangerous precedent to prop up the stock market. The US government basically propped up $3T of stocks THIS YEAR and then the president took credit for the economy. The economy is a sham and the fed balance sheet should stop being manipulated. We’re using the coffers of our children for republican talking points.

7) Politics is nastier now than I’ve seen it. The media has been demonized, unless it rhymed with “Rox,” and I’ve never seen more conspiracy theories in people I know. I’d like someone that would like to improve America for all, not just red/blue voters. Also, I’d like the president to stop calling me a “hater and a loser”. You’re the leader of the free world, so act like it.

Issues:

1) NATO and the EU have never pulled their weight, and we are probably going back to the one sided relationship that we all hate.

2) If Military acquisitions are cut anymore, maybe we’ll be fighting China’s 6th gen fighter with mech scanned vipers here in a decade. Although, to be fair, the Trump policies didn’t exactly FIX the acquisition problems that the military have had the last 20 years.

3) Racism is real, I believe. But the Democrats solution to be hypersensitive crybabys and cancel people is stupid. I agree with the recent push to limit diversity training, and I fear there are gonna be some STUPID policies. Did you see that survivor is gonna be 50% POC??? So dumb.

4) Biden is old and Kamala Harris is not someone I respect or like. This is the biggest drawback for me.

I honestly am not worried about job security. I’m in defense, as I assume you are, and there are boundless opportunities for military officers in and out of the military. My wealth will continue to increase in the stock market just as much as it would have. I can still purchase property, but I am definitely not going to be part of the owner class (and none of you will be either).

Bottom line, I want someone with a bit more moral compass and maybe slightly more progressive views. So that’s how I voted this election.

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52 minutes ago, Negatory said:

I’m genuinely curious as to what you thought would improve under Trump as well. I think the president really does a lot less than people give credit, but I still voted opposite you.

Since you said you’re genuinely curious, here’s a few points:

1) I believe a lot more of America’s influence in the world comes from soft power than people realize. How the world perceives our president is important, and worldwide public perception of the status of America is at an all time low, in part due to rough rhetoric. I think this could improve.

2) I believe basic, preventative healthcare should be a fundamental right for the working class. This has a higher likelihood of happening now. Will be good for my children.

3) I don’t believe in social conservatism even slightly. Protect the rights to abortion/birth control/gay rights. Keep religion separate.

4) One of the biggest ones is probably income inequality. Trickle down economics does not work. I don’t care how many times you’ve been spoon fed that line. Productivity over the last 50 years has gone up - wages have stayed the same (inflation). The system is rigged against America’s youth whether you look at college that costs 70k a year (look up the costs), a dwindling job market (it’s been like this pre-Covid) that was propped up by min wage gig economy jobs, or the disastrous housing crisis. I’m glad I’m in the military, as it solved a lot of these problems, but is the American dream still alive as much as everyone says it is? Policies to increase min wage, provide healthcare, reduce student loans, support unions/workers rights - these will benefit the whole of America. It’s hard to vote for a “billionaire” who literally paid less than I did in tax for multiple years. And before you say he was just playing by the rules, if he cared about the system, he would make a concerted effort to fix the glitches.

5) Responses to pandemics or emergencies will actually have compassion or an iota of human decency. Handling of things like Puerto Rico or COVID have been terribly politicized and divisive for the nation when they shouldn’t have been.

6) The federal reserve has been used for quantitative easing in a dangerous precedent to prop up the stock market. The US government basically propped up $3T of stocks THIS YEAR and then the president took credit for the economy. The economy is a sham and the fed balance sheet should stop being manipulated. We’re using the coffers of our children for republican talking points.

7) Politics is nastier now than I’ve seen it. The media has been demonized, unless it rhymed with “Rox,” and I’ve never seen more conspiracy theories in people I know. I’d like someone that would like to improve America for all, not just red/blue voters. Also, I’d like the president to stop calling me a “hater and a loser”. You’re the leader of the free world, so act like it.

Issues:

1) NATO and the EU have never pulled their weight, and we are probably going back to the one sided relationship that we all hate.

2) If Military acquisitions are cut anymore, maybe we’ll be fighting China’s 6th gen fighter with mech scanned vipers here in a decade. Although, to be fair, the Trump policies didn’t exactly FIX the acquisition problems that the military have had the last 20 years.

3) Racism is real, I believe. But the Democrats solution to be hypersensitive crybabys and cancel people is stupid. I agree with the recent push to limit diversity training, and I fear there are gonna be some STUPID policies. Did you see that survivor is gonna be 50% POC??? So dumb.

4) Biden is old and Kamala Harris is not someone I respect or like. This is the biggest drawback for me.

I honestly am not worried about job security. I’m in defense, as I assume you are, and there are boundless opportunities for military officers in and out of the military. My wealth will continue to increase in the stock market just as much as it would have. I can still purchase property, but I am definitely not going to be part of the owner class (and none of you will be either).

Bottom line, I want someone with a bit more moral compass and maybe slightly more progressive views. So that’s how I voted this election.

Awesome post.

I'm not sensitive to the covid issues, because diseases happen and how we should respond is not at all consensus. Hell, I know *far* more young people who care than the old people who are actually at risk. Done care, some don't, and both sides are completely right in thinking the way they do. Which means there shouldn't be a national policy.

 

Disagree with soft power. It's not a coincidence the strongest country has the most influence. Look how much influence China is gaining as their "hard power" increases.

 

Agree with health care, but disagree that it will end there. Checkups and treatment for broken bones? Free. Birth control and IUDs, free. Under the age of 20? Free. But if you're 36 and get leukemia or you're 85 and your kidneys are failing, you better have insurance or you die. That's the gamble. The primary discriminator for if the government provides the coverage should be price and predictability.

 

On social issues I'm 50/50. I don't agree with religious based edicts. However the "old knowledge" didn't come from God, it came from thousands of years of observation and adaptation resulting in the most successful societies. We have to understand why a social norm works before we tinker with it. The sexual revolution comes to mind.

 

Income inequality is a pointless measure. But you're spot on with conflating the stock market and the economy. Because the boomers have their retirements in the stock market and real estate, that's exactly what the government has artificially inflated. And it's crushing entire generations. The boomers will go down as the most devastating generation in history. 

 

Some random caller on a podcast I heard (Femsplainers) nailed it on nasty politics. There are only two parties. If there's only two groups that are opposed to each other, there's no limit to how nasty the situation gets. He used his competition in business as an example. When there were just two of them, it was fierce and awful. Once there were a dozen competitors, it mellowed out. We might be programmed to recognize when there is an isolated threat and destroy it, who knows. But if we can't get some more diversity in the political arena, the nastiness will probably not abate.

 

 

Edited by Lord Ratner
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I worked the election processing ballots.... keeping an eye on a voting machine..making sure that initials were in the right spot, paper jams got cleared... In a high school gym full of tables, workers, machines etc.  Nine hour shift which was a bit sporting for the older folks..but they pressed on..  NOW, the highest levels of  the Republican party (starting with Donald Trump) and many party members are all but accusing me and co-workers of fraud, mis-handling paperwork, forgery and in general just being a herd of mopes. BTW..we had an official election observer..spent most of his time perched on a chair screwing with his phone... Some locations had armed demonstrators banging on windows.  I am truly beginning to wonder about people who took an oath to "support and defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign and Domestic"  Have I become a Domestic Enemy?  Do I need to be defended against?  Any other potential Domestic Enemies you fighting men need to deal with?

It’s not about you, quit being dramatic. There is clearly widespread cheating but don’t ever piss and moan about democracy and turn a blind eye to the clear fraud from the Democratic Party. Biden might indeed be the winner (in which case god help you all..) but you’re going to have a very angry and non trusting electorate amongst half the country if that fraud is not addressed.


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20 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Precisely. There is effectively no comparison between the two countries, yet somehow we think the leadership is the reason for the disparities? 

 

That's like comparing NYC to Catalina island. 

I'd argue you could accurately compare it to Hawaii. New Zealand's leadership asked for a unified front. We didn't, nor do we have a unified front between the states. 

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9 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

Site your source you dumb motherer.

https://cdn.donaldjtrump.com/public-files/press_assets/2020-11-09-complaint-as-filed.pdf

 

You need to take an anger management class. You seem way too angry, especially after your guy "won".

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Dan Crenshaw (@DanCrenshawTX) Tweeted:
Biden supporters, faced with a loss, geared up for riots. Businesses boarded up in fear.

Trump supporters, faced with a loss, geared up to fight in court.

This difference matters.

Media elites can stop finger wagging at folks using a legitimate process to make their case, ok?

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I mean, you can take that multiple ways.

It’s just as easy to say that Dems were scared of overly violent Trump supporters retaliating.

Or that Democrats as a population are just more easily scared or anxious when compared to Republicans.

Doesn’t mean much, IMO.

Edited by Negatory
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I mean, you can take that multiple ways.
It’s just as easy to say that Dems were scared of overly violent Trump supporters retaliating.
Or that Democrats as a population are just more easily scared or anxious when compared to Republicans.
Doesn’t mean much, IMO.

Overly violent trump supporters? Where are they? And if they do exist, what violence have they caused? Is it anything compared to the leftist supported riots this year on any scale?

Sorry but I’m afraid that is a straw man my friend. One set up not on fact but emotion, assumptions, and fear. The fear the leftist have been peddling has come back to them if what you say is true about being afraid of violent trump supporters.

Are there even any violent trump supporters in numbers comparable to the leftists?

So something that doesn’t exist in any scale worth mentioning is made even scarier by using “Overly” in front of it.

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3 minutes ago, Guardian said:


Overly violent trump supporters? Where are they? And if they do exist, what violence have they caused? Is it anything compared to the leftist supported riots this year on any scale?

Sorry but I’m afraid that is a straw man my friend. One set up not on fact but emotion, assumptions, and fear. The fear the leftist have been peddling has come back to them if what you say is true about being afraid of violent trump supporters.

Are there even any violent trump supporters in numbers comparable to the leftists?

So something that doesn’t exist in any scale worth mentioning is made even scarier by using “Overly” in front of it.
 

While not necessarily violent, but didn't we just have tons of Trump supporters protest at the polls with guns, banging on windows? Not exactly peaceful, nor overtly violent. 

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7 hours ago, pcola said:

I’m genuinely curious to hear from a few pro-Biden/never-Trumpers just exactly what do you foresee that will improve in your life under a Biden presidency. Will your job security/satisfaction increase? Your wealth or family’s security? Your satisfaction with your identity as an American?  Curious to hear other perspectives.

For me at an immediate level, absolutely immeasurably yes on the first two.  I'm an ATC, federal employee.  Being reclassified as a political appointee and having my due process rights waived was not something I was happy about, because I'm not an appointee, and that was just within the last couple weeks.  Let's also not forget the two and a half months I went without a paycheck, over the holidays no less, for absolutely nothing.  It's not the first shutdown I've been through, it certainly won't be the last (guessing we have one coming in a month or so), but it was the longest and the most obscene.  And the anti-labor executive orders...don't think I even need to explain those, how detrimental they'd be.  I'm very active in our union, it's the proper avenue for us to improve and address the workplace.   I think we have a good mix where it's optional to be in the union in the first place, you only pay dues if you're in, and we can't strike so the legally-mandated communication is different.  I could go on if needed but I think I made my point.  Also I was very concerned for the future of my profession, our wage, and my leave time...lots of talk of big changes for those in a second term.  And our labor contract expires two years into it.

For the satisfaction of identity as an American...well, I'd like to be able to travel the world again, and it's somewhat abhorrent that we still can't go to Canada or any of Europe because of the President's erratic-at-best, or even lack of plan for COVID.  Our response and stats do all the talking here.  You can say what you want on political leanings or leverage, but the fact that we're shut out from our longest-standing, closest allies should alarm you.

And sadly I trust the career politician to create a functional, cohesive government/cabinet more than the current clown show that only favors loyalty, like it's the fucking Mob or something.

Edited by Clayton Bigsby
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7 minutes ago, Clayton Bigsby said:

For me at an immediate level, absolutely immeasurably yes on the first two.  I'm an ATC, federal employee.  Being reclassified as a political appointee and having my due process rights waived was not something I was happy about, because I'm not an appointee, and that was just within the last couple weeks.  Let's also not forget the two and a half months I went without a paycheck, over the holidays no less, for absolutely nothing.  It's not the first shutdown I've been through, it certainly won't be the last (guessing we have one coming in a month or so), but it was the longest and the most obscene.  And the anti-labor executive orders...don't think I even need to explain those, how detrimental they'd be.  I'm very active in our union, it's the proper avenue for us to improve and address the workplace.   I think we have a good mix where it's optional to be in the union in the first place, you only pay dues if you're in, and we can't strike so the legally-mandated communication is different.  I could go on if needed but I think I made my point.  Also I was very concerned for the future of my profession, our wage, and my leave time...lots of talk of big changes for those in a second term.  And our labor contract expires two years into it.

For the satisfaction of identity as an American...well, I'd like to be able to travel the world again, and it's somewhat abhorrent that we still can't go to Canada or any of Europe because of the President's erratic-at-best, or even lack of plan for COVID.  Our response and stats do all the talking here.  You can say what you want on political leanings or leverage, but the fact that we're shut out from our longest-standing, closest allies should alarm you.

And sadly I trust the career politician to create a functional, cohesive government/cabinet more than the current clown show that only favors loyalty, like it's the fucking Mob or something.

You're going to be really disappointed if you think Biden is going to get you to Europe. Dude, Germans can't even visit France right now. There's no way they will try to accommodate people outside the Shenzhen in the near future. I've lived and worked here since the start of this shenanigans. Its a fucking disaster right now. 

 

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1 hour ago, Guardian said:


Overly violent trump supporters? Where are they? And if they do exist, what violence have they caused? Is it anything compared to the leftist supported riots this year on any scale?

Sorry but I’m afraid that is a straw man my friend. One set up not on fact but emotion, assumptions, and fear. The fear the leftist have been peddling has come back to them if what you say is true about being afraid of violent trump supporters.

Are there even any violent trump supporters in numbers comparable to the leftists?

So something that doesn’t exist in any scale worth mentioning is made even scarier by using “Overly” in front of it.
 

You missed the point. Both sides arguments are strawmans, and neither is more valid. Be fair. How about this sort of activity?

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/14/855918852/heavily-armed-protesters-gather-again-at-michigans-capitol-denouncing-home-order

Here’s a GAO study showing that far right extremism/terrorism has caused more fatalities since 9/11 than Islam.

https://www.gao.gov/assets/690/683984.pdf

"Of the 85 violent extremist incidents that resulted in death since September 12, 2001, far right wing violent extremist groups were responsible for 62 (73 percent) while radical Islamist violent extremists were responsible for 23 (27 percent). The total number of fatalities is Page 5 GAO-17-300 Countering Violent Extremism about the same for far right wing violent extremists and radical Islamist violent extremists over the approximately 15-year period (106 and 119, respectively). However, 41 percent of the deaths attributable to radical Islamist violent extremists occurred in a single event—an attack at an Orlando, Florida night club in 2016 (see fig. 2). Details on the locations" (pg. 4)

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I’ll look into those. Specifically broadening your argument to cover 25 years isn’t a good thing. You dislike trump right? And antifa and BLM (the group not the ideal) are who I am talking about but the leftists in general. So see if you can find reference in America in the last 4 years to what we are talking about and I will keep it even since George Floyd.

Here are 25 deaths

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acled

And to broaden it out, because I’m sure you will complain about me scoping it,instead of just talking about death let’s talk about money.

How much money has “violent” rightist or republican riots or violence caused. Yes I said violent violence. But I put a bunch of words in between so I should be fine.

Leftist ideals caused 1-2 billion with a B for insurance companies alone. How about the average worker or citizen? How about the business owners? Right wingers owe them any money?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/09/16/riots-following-george-floyds-death-could-cost-up-to-2b/amp/

Again, I will re read what you wrote and look into your links. Thank you.

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