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HeloDude

Taxes, the Deficit/Debt, and the Fiscal Cliff

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I'm with Lord Ratner. I love slow glacier like action/change from government. We have seen that quickly reacting to situations has unforeseen (sometimes even foreseen) negative consequences (e.g. 14th amendment, 17th amendment ...many others). The intent might have been good with many of our laws, but the followthrough has been terrible.

On the budget front: Getting a budget settled should not be that difficult. Fund what is obligated and then maybe drag out/fight over the other stuff. Holding the complete forgiveness of illegal entry to your country as your bargaining chip, is not reasonable.

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^This. Fast moving legislation gets us “shovel ready jobs” and bank bailouts, and yes, big O and Bush ar both at fault 

Edited by matmacwc

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On 2/6/2018 at 1:12 AM, matmacwc said:

^This. Fast moving legislation gets us “shovel ready jobs” and bank bailouts, and yes, big O and Bush ar both at fault 

Or Obamacare.  That being said, in terms of “fast/slow moving legislation” it shouldn’t be this complicated to pass a freaking budget.  Two times in one month that the government potentially shuts down is unsat.  

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Rand Paul on Neil Cavuto, not usually a fan of his but as we pass 20+ trillion debt now with a trillion dollar deficit forecast in few years, along with higher interest rates inevitably necessary, shit is about to get real IMO in a few years. 

Skip to 9:45 and he has a good idea, individual spending bills vs. the all or nothing omnibus bills we choke on now.

Department by Department, vote on each and IMO should have 3 COAs for each: Full Resourcing, 5% haircut across the Department's individual programs or 5% haircut with discretion granted to the head of the Dept to shift resources to achieve the 5% savings.

For the 2018 budget, it is about 3.654 trillion in revenues vs. 4.094 trillion in appropriations, for about 440 billion in deficit spending or about 9% over budget.  Let's dip our toes in the water of fiscal sanity and aim for just 4% over budget and shift just 5% of budget and spending authority to gov officials who don't have a huge need to beg of campaign contributions and face reelection every 2 or 6 years...

 

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So this is disturbing...

U.S. on a Course to Spend More on Debt Than Defense

Rising interest costs could crowd out other government spending priorities and rattle markets

It's been projected before but we are getting closer and closer and are gathering speed.

The penny plan seems to be the best solution (reduce spending by 1% per year and problem fixes itself in about 5 years) of the current proposals that are out there but not getting any traction.  

The left would not support it (not a slight at them) and the right would support it so why not meet each other half way and cover the other half with tax increases an equal amount (I would suggest elimination of deductions/credits than rate increases), and you get to the same place in about 5 years and no side gave more than the other side.

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So this is disturbing...
U.S. on a Course to Spend More on Debt Than Defense
Rising interest costs could crowd out other government spending priorities and rattle markets
It's been projected before but we are getting closer and closer and are gathering speed.
The penny plan seems to be the best solution (reduce spending by 1% per year and problem fixes itself in about 5 years) of the current proposals that are out there but not getting any traction.  
The left would not support it (not a slight at them) and the right would support it so why not meet each other half way and cover the other half with tax increases an equal amount (I would suggest elimination of deductions/credits than rate increases), and you get to the same place in about 5 years and no side gave more than the other side.
I don't see it happening. The people in America who care about the deficit don't care as much as the people who care about their welfare. The idealistic liberals don't believe that debt is a bad thing, and the career liberals know it gets them votes. The idealistic conservatives can't build a group with enough balls to do something, and the career conservatives are largely indistinguishable from their liberal counterparts.

And I'll place money on the federal government buying out the ~$1.5 trillion in student debt sometime in the next 5ish years. There's no way for a significant portion of the millennial generation to pay off the $100k+ they took on as teenagers, and the economy cannot function if an entire generation can't buy new cars, houses, vacations, etc.

Buckle up

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4 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Buckle up

Agreed.

When a country that has control over its own currency and gets into a debt problem it can:

- Devalue its currency thru printing money and eroding its value, repaying the debt in now less valuable notes quickly getting out of the hole but also temporarily putting its exports on sale.  

- Cut budgets, raise taxes and impose austerity.  Politically untenable in representative democracies of late and in the USA, not likely on the table.

As the world's reserve currency, we can generate a shit ton of ill will if turn on the printing press, come up with another 10 Trillion and start paying our debts in dollars effectively worth 69% less.  Long term self-defeating as much of our clout and success comes from everyone holding and trading (often) in dollars.

Preaching to the choir, but if we don't start the inevitable turn to living within our means the hard turn the market will force on us could lead to domestic turmoil.

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Did Military One Source get rid of the free H&R block program?  I can't find it anywhere on their site.  They're pimping some new system called MilTax but I can't even find a link to access that. 

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As long as it can be fixed (penny plan) they won’t change a thing.  We might be in this until it’s too late, but maybe that’s part of the plan

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Did Military One Source get rid of the free H&R block program?  I can't find it anywhere on their site.  They're pimping some new system called MilTax but I can't even find a link to access that. 

I logged into my HR block account and it has a banner at the top for militaryonesource/miltax, so it looks like MilTax is just a new name.


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40 minutes ago, ihtfp06 said:


I logged into my HR block account and it has a banner at the top for militaryonesource/miltax, so it looks like MilTax is just a new name.


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This checks from what I remember last year. MilTax was just a different name on the same program. Finding the right link is always impossible, though.

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On 1/19/2019 at 8:08 PM, BADFNZ said:

Did Military One Source get rid of the free H&R block program?  I can't find it anywhere on their site.  They're pimping some new system called MilTax but I can't even find a link to access that. 

It's up now, and it's still an HR Block product.  https://www.militaryonesource.mil/taxprep

Edited by nunya

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We pay more interest servicing the US debt in a single week than the amount requested to fund the border wall. That said:

1.  Establish term limits

2. Eliminate borrowing. Create an exchange to trade existing debt.

3. Eliminate income tax and implement a consumption tax. Undocumented families of 10 ppl living down the street all become tax payers. 

4.  Eliminate pensions. 

 

 

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We pay more interest servicing the US debt in a single week than the amount requested to fund the border wall. That said:
1.  Establish term limits
2. Eliminate borrowing. Create an exchange to trade existing debt.
3. Eliminate income tax and implement a consumption tax. Undocumented families of 10 ppl living down the street all become tax payers. 
4.  Eliminate pensions. 
 
 

A consumption tax would be regressive (and thus never gain the backing of the Ds). Additionally, it would discourage spending which would have severe implications for our economy.


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How about consumption tax married with universal basic income? I would think the Left could get on board with that.

Has an income tax replaced by a consumption tax ever been tried? Seems like there are states with no income tax that seem to do alright.. also seems like some states with high income taxes that aren’t doing so hot.  Do we *know* it will discourage spending enough to severely impact the economy?

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How about consumption tax married with universal basic income? I would think the Left could get on board with that.

Has an income tax replaced by a consumption tax ever been tried? Seems like there are states with no income tax that seem to do alright.. also seems like some states with high income taxes that aren’t doing so hot.  Do we *know* it will discourage spending enough to severely impact the economy?

It wouldn't hurt spending if the net tax change was neutral (reduce/eliminate income taxes).

 

There's no universe where the Democrats support this. Our tax system is arguably the most progressive in the world. A national sales tax would mean the bottom 50% of Americans go from paying 3% of federal taxes to around 25%.

 

However if you want to see it working on a smaller scale, just head to Texas. Tolls and property taxes may be annoying, but everyone participates, not just the wealthy.

 

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4 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

However if you want to see it working on a smaller scale, just head to Texas. Tolls and property taxes may be annoying, but everyone participates, not just the wealthy.

That's kinda my point. Wealthy people still live in and buy stuff in Texas, so I don't think the decrease in spending every materialized.  Are the poor worse off in Texas than if they were in any other state? Don't know.  The big plus to me is that everyone participates.

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That's kinda my point. Wealthy people still live in and buy stuff in Texas, so I don't think the decrease in spending every materialized.  Are the poor worse off in Texas than if they were in any other state? Don't know.  The big plus to me is that everyone participates.
Housing is cheaper, as are most goods. I think it would be hard to argue that the poorest in Texas are worse of than the poorest in California, but I'd love to see data that shows otherwise.

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There is a minor candidate running for the 2020 Dem nomination named Andrew Yang proposing exactly what's being discussed, a 10% VAT paired with a UBI.

https://www.yang2020.com/what-is-ubi/

He discusses the idea at length on a podcast here:

 

Edited by nsplayr

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That's kinda my point. Wealthy people still live in and buy stuff in Texas, so I don't think the decrease in spending every materialized.  Are the poor worse off in Texas than if they were in any other state? Don't know.  The big plus to me is that everyone participates.

Sales tax isn’t high in Texas. 6.25% IIRC.


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VAT is another one of those taxes that are ridiculous and we need to leave it to Europe, most things we take for granted are so overpriced over there, in part, due to this.  I’ll fight VAT tooth and nail.  How bout we spend less.

Gevernment oversight of every step of manufacturing, what could go wrong?

Edited by matmacwc

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23 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:


Sales tax isn’t high in Texas. 6.25% IIRC.


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8.25% here in Taylor county, near Dyess.

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VAT is another one of those taxes that are ridiculous and we need to leave it to Europe, most things we take for granted are so overpriced over there, in part, due to this.  I’ll fight VAT tooth and nail.  How bout we spend less.
Gevernment oversight of every step of manufacturing, what could go wrong?
I'd much rather spend 20% on sales tax than 40%+ on income taxes. And I much prefer a system where everyone contributes. Hard to care about a tax that doesn't affect you, and nearly half of Americans (voters) aren't affected by income tax.

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