Jump to content
Baseops Forums
Catbox

What's wrong with the Air Force?

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

I've posted this before and I'll post it here again. It's satire, but it's true:

https://www.duffelblog.com/2015/04/jcs-dont-care-youre-resigning/

 

The system is what the system is. Fighting it is like getting mad at the ocean for having waves. 

 

FWIW, I worked one, two leg overnight sitting reserve at my house so far this month. And I make about what a Lt Col makes in my second year at a legacy with the (currently) worst contract. 

Edited by xaarman
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I bitch as much as the next guy, but what would be a good thing for leadership to do to show they “care”? Not trolling, I’d love to hear some actual suggestions other than (my standard  game plan) just complaining. 

I bring this up because someone asked me this yesterday as I was holding court and bitching about this and I didn’t have an answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

I bitch as much as the next guy, but what would be a good thing for leadership to do to show they “care”? Not trolling, I’d love to hear some actual suggestions other than (my standard  game plan) just complaining. 

I bring this up because someone asked me this yesterday as I was holding court and bitching about this and I didn’t have an answer.

I’m not sure we need to cross this bridge anymore, sadly.  The ACRTF removed the ‘crisis’... retention initiatives have all but disappeared...as the COA is to now outgrow the problem...

hence bitching is literally all we got left? Hard to discuss thoughts and actions to show they ‘care,’ when it’ll fall on deaf ears. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

I bitch as much as the next guy, but what would be a good thing for leadership to do to show they “care”? Not trolling, I’d love to hear some actual suggestions other than (my standard  game plan) just complaining. 

I bring this up because someone asked me this yesterday as I was holding court and bitching about this and I didn’t have an answer.

1. Start saying no to dumb shit that doesn’t enhance the flying mission or breaks the squadron either personnel and/or materiel wise.

2. COCOMS need to be told go fuck themselves by their air counterparts when they ask for unnecessary stuff/people.

3. Every “good idea” from a shoe that takes time away from my day to do my primary job and does nothing to further the mission needs to be smashed before wing standup even ends.

4. Nobody is equal; be unapologetic about aircrew being more important to the mission than finance (doesn’t mean they’re not an important part, but the rack and stack of priority jobs to the mission is clear). Just because Amn snuffy is excited to go TDY for 2 months because he hasn’t been in years, doesn’t mean I should be, seeing as I’ve already been TDY 6 months so far this year. Shitty leadership sweeps that under the rug and placates to butt hurt snuffy when he laments pilots being prima donnas because they want to do 2 week swap outs and he doesn’t get to. Good leadership says “STFU and color snuffy” and lets pilots do the swap outs.

5. Fight for every possible way to reward people and increase QOL. Example: Shitty leadership could easily give bonuses, but personally decide not to because of some twisted personal view. If it’s legal, do it, no questions asked! Example: shitty leadership who pushes people to work arbitrary 12-14 hr days instead of saying “go home as soon as your day’s work is done.”

I could go on, but what all of these things have in common is showing value to your people and their mission. Workers who feel valued (intrinsically or monetarily) and feel unrestricted in accomplishing their mission will have far higher job satisfaction. Here’s why this won’t happen in the AF - any leader who takes all this to heart will be fired tomorrow and replaced by a dickless yes man. The AF doesn’t want solutions or men with change on their mind, they want a carbon copy of the same dipshits who have been running the ship into the rocks for decades. Change is bad, the beatings will continue until morale improves.

 

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, brabus said:

2. COCOMS need to be told go fuck themselves by their air counterparts when they ask for unnecessary stuff/people.

 

Agreed... reworking of Goldwater-Nichols to put force providers on parity with COCOMs would be good. AFCongressman still lurking around this board?

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, youdontknowthis said:

- He acted as if he had never heard of considering pro pay for pilots., when compared to doctors and how they get paid. He half serious asked how many of us new how to perform medical procedures as if they are on another level. I wanted to ask how many of them know how to fly but I’ll admit I don’t have the stones to do something like that. 

- He said that $35k was really good for the bonus.
 

How many doctors have 4 to 10 million dollars in training costs? Zero. He is an idiot.

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR2400/RR2415/RAND_RR2415.pdf

 

Edited by Merle Dixon
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, youdontknowthis said:




- He said the way they can make things better is to get rid of the queepy stuff and gave an example of how many regs have been gotten rid of.


 

Have they?  I know they renamed a bunch to AFMANs.  Nobody has been able to give me a straight answer as to what that changes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Danger41 said:

I bitch as much as the next guy, but what would be a good thing for leadership to do to show they “care”? Not trolling, I’d love to hear some actual suggestions other than (my standard  game plan) just complaining. 

I bring this up because someone asked me this yesterday as I was holding court and bitching about this and I didn’t have an answer.

big.

dick.

energy.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ThreeHoler said:

Renaming changes nothing. Both are mandatory compliance. What does change is the elimination of rules from [some] of those pubs.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

I’ve noticed almost 0 difference in my day to day operations/flying. Honestly the only thing I can think of off the top of my head is not confirming my RNAV headings/courses in my GPS with my plate. Maybe I was just already ignoring all the stupid shit they “got rid of”. 

Oh, I now have additional guidance about having to have  flight gloves. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Danger41 said:

I bitch as much as the next guy, but what would be a good thing for leadership to do to show they “care”? Not trolling, I’d love to hear some actual suggestions other than (my standard  game plan) just complaining. 

I bring this up because someone asked me this yesterday as I was holding court and bitching about this and I didn’t have an answer.

Say, “We care if you leave. We don’t want you to. And, we’re going to fight to keep you. We’re on the Hill right now fighting for you.”

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, K_O said:

Say, “We care if you leave. We don’t want you to. And, we’re going to fight to keep you. We’re on the Hill right now fighting for you.”

Had an OG say pretty much that, ask me what he could do to keep me, offered up good ideas, etc. I appreciated him truly valuing my contribution and trying in earnest to make things different so I’d stay. If there were more leaders like him, we wouldn’t have half these issues. So far he hasn’t been fired as a wing/cc, so maybe there’s some hope. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I’ve noticed almost 0 difference in my day to day operations/flying. Honestly the only thing I can think of off the top of my head is not confirming my RNAV headings/courses in my GPS with my plate. Maybe I was just already ignoring all the stupid shit they “got rid of”. 
Oh, I now have additional guidance about having to have  flight gloves. 
 


You should probably still QC that...they couldn’t make you before, can’t make you now. Hopefully you never run into a database error or something.

I helped with the C-5 CNS/ATM stuff and I was a little surprised by the chain of custody issues with those databases. I suppose it’s fair to acknowledge I have little trust/faith in people I don’t know (or in general really) as it is.

I’ll always check that shit whether it’s required or not. Is this from the new 217? I’ve yet to even read that thing.

~Bendy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/16/2019 at 6:38 PM, youdontknowthis said:

- He said if someone wants to get out that they should and he’s fine with that and wouldn’t try to get them to stay. Basically stating what’s done is done and not seeing if anything could be done to keep them in..

Had my OG/CC tell me a version of that when I told him my stay/go decision criteria. I was willing to be convinced to stay in but I knew if I signed on for one more assignment I was signing up for 3 moves and a 365. I just couldn't put my family through that. 

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Bender said:

 


You should probably still QC that...they couldn’t make you before, can’t make you now. Hopefully you never run into a database error or something.

I helped with the C-5 CNS/ATM stuff and I was a little surprised by the chain of custody issues with those databases. I suppose it’s fair to acknowledge I have little trust/faith in people I don’t know (or in general really) as it is.

I’ll always check that shit whether it’s required or not. Is this from the new 217? I’ve yet to even read that thing.

~Bendy

 

217 v1/2/3 are now AFMAN 217. All one volume. The old guidance required you to verify the course and distance between your points for a RNAV.  That verbiage was removed. NVG stuff got moved somewhere, some other minor changes. 

Point being, the bobs are saying “look, we eliminated a bunch of pubs and rules!” When in reality they just combined some pubs and reduced redundancies. All the rules are still there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, brabus said:

4. Nobody is equal; be unapologetic about aircrew being more important to the mission than finance (doesn’t mean they’re not an important part, but the rack and stack of priority jobs to the mission is clear).

 ....placates to butt hurt snuffy when he laments pilots being prima donnas .

....I could go on, but what all of these things have in common is showing value to your people and their mission.

 

Am I the only one that sees a disconnect? I’ve been aircrew, then Intel, and now Cyber, so I get both sides.

If you fix, load, AND fly the jet, then you truly are worth more than everybody else.   But keep in mind that Snuffy May have spent his shift getting your jet code 1.  

You end by saying that leadership needs to value your people and their mission. That applies to non bag wearers too.

i know who the audience is here but you guys occasionally act like you’re singing “Cus I’m a Pilot” by Dos Gringos And taking it seriously.

standing by for return fire...

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
217 v1/2/3 are now AFMAN 217. All one volume. The old guidance required you to verify the course and distance between your points for a RNAV.  That verbiage was removed. NVG stuff got moved somewhere, some other minor changes. 
Point being, the bobs are saying “look, we eliminated a bunch of pubs and rules!” When in reality they just combined some pubs and reduced redundancies. All the rules are still there. 


I was tracking on the consolidation. I certainly hope we aren’t including that effort into the “reduction of queep” effort. If Instrument Flight Rules were in the target of “queep”, we are worse off than I thought!

~Bendy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, if you’re still in beyond your initial commitment, that’s on you. By the Major point, you know the rules and requirements of the game. 

 

Dont stay with a girl hoping she’ll change. Nothing different here either. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IDGAF if Maj Gen Wills “cares” about anything or not. He’s got a job to do, and it’s extremely disappointing that he doesn’t grasp the concept of increased retention pay being cheaper than the expense of replacing experienced guys. He also thinks he can’t afford to compete with the airlines, which is a foolish take on the problem. The truth is that he’s spending billions to train the airlines pilots for them.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, xaarman said:

Honestly, if you’re still in beyond your initial commitment, that’s on you. By the Major point, you know the rules and requirements of the game. 

 

Dont stay with a girl hoping she’ll change. Nothing different here either. 

This.

For those who lament the fact that AF management (and your elected politicians) don’t care about the impact of a pilot retention crisis on national security and the likely potential for an increase in deaths/mishaps... well, it’s because they really don’t care.  We won’t lose wars against near-peers because we won’t get into them, just approach them enough to scare folks into more spending.  That’s by design.  If a few dozen pilots mort because of abbreviated/inadequate training, well, America at large doesn’t care.

It’s not about winning wars or providing national security, at least not as the primary goal.  You’re but a peon in the massive jobs program that is the Defense Industrial Complex, too big to fail.  As others have said... once you understand that the purpose of the Department of Defense is to spend taxpayer money, everything starts to make sense.

Life is far, far better with active duty AF in the rear view mirror.  

Edited by Karl Hungus
F you autocorrect
  • Like 2
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Majestik Møøse said:

IDGAF if Maj Gen Wills “cares” about anything or not. He’s got a job to do, and it’s extremely disappointing that he doesn’t grasp the concept of increased retention pay being cheaper than the expense of replacing experienced guys. He also thinks he can’t afford to compete with the airlines, which is a foolish take on the problem. The truth is that he’s spending billions to train the airlines pilots for them.

What if he said Pro Pilot pay should be $300k/year? He can't make that happen, but apparently it would make a lot of folks feel better.

 

As I slowly disconnect from my past life, I still chime in here because I like Base Ops. But it will be the same complaining as when I was a junior Captain, to senior Captain, and now a few years post separation... and people are still complaining about the same stuff. 

 

The time is ripe to get out. But as I said above, don't stay with the girl hoping she'll come around in the next 1-4 years... it ain't happening. 

 

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Danger41 said:

I bitch as much as the next guy, but what would be a good thing for leadership to do to show they “care”? Not trolling, I’d love to hear some actual suggestions other than (my standard  game plan) just complaining. 

I bring this up because someone asked me this yesterday as I was holding court and bitching about this and I didn’t have an answer.

Publicly propose sweeping changes to the AF and DoD, engage Congress and the media, if there is no traction on reform, resign en masse.

If you truly want to change the system you must be willing to sacrifice, rationalizing that you will fix it from the inside is bullshit.

If GOs, started punching out and saying that which is known but not acknowledged at the highest echelons, you could potentially build the consensus in Congress for necessary change. 

That's an if and it is a risk/sacrifice but that is the only way to get the pols and relevant media's attention to make a persuasive argument.

Easy for me to say as an internet nobody but that's all I got.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Somebody asked if anyone’s seen any changes yet as a result of all the hyperbole... From my little corner all I can see is a bunch of wheel spinning and cheap talk. While the reality remains - with every passing month, as more of my brothers walk out the door, my days get longer. Nothing short of WW3 could make me stay past my commitment at this point.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, SuperWSO said:

Am I the only one that sees a disconnect? I’ve been aircrew, then Intel, and now Cyber, so I get both sides.

If you fix, load, AND fly the jet, then you truly are worth more than everybody else.   But keep in mind that Snuffy May have spent his shift getting your jet code 1.  

You end by saying that leadership needs to value your people and their mission. That applies to non bag wearers too.

i know who the audience is here but you guys occasionally act like you’re singing “Cus I’m a Pilot” by Dos Gringos And taking it seriously.

standing by for return fire...

It was a simple, broad statement to make a point...and yes, vectored at the general audience here. Do I think I’m more important than a CCT, the guys I literally trust my life with to ensure my jet is good to go, the O/D cyber guys who are doing an incredibly important job, etc...no, I’d put us on parity.  My point was the AF should not simply disregard the MSG/MDG and treat them like shit, but the AF should happily acknowledging operators of jets, PRC-152s and Off/Def keyboards are the ones fighting the wars, and everything else is support.  Support should not get the same priority as ops, period.  So when some support guy bitches about something, “noted Snuffy” should be the reply, not “oh no, well my first priority as a leader is to make sure nobody is butt hurt, so I’ll bow to your low SA complaint/request, even though I know it will interfere with my pilots’ ability to effectively do their mission.”

We are the only branch who is full retard on this. Leaders don’t need to be assholes about it, but what ops (or their direct supporters) need to get the mission done with least amount of barriers is more important than the flavor of the week the MSG is bitching about.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He also thinks he can’t afford to compete with the airlines, which is a foolish take on the problem. The truth is that he’s spending billions to train the airlines pilots for them.


He can’t if HAF won’t

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...