World War III Updates

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, Lawman said:

If you actually start looking at original founding members of things like the Sierra club, there is a deeply inhuman meritocracy of human survival they are advocating for silently. John Muir was an advocate for white ascendency and soft extermination of lesser peoples. People that read things like Population bomb and think it is a sound science from a place of money and power don’t want there to be 8 billion people on the Planet. These were champions of Eugenics, which at its time was a widely regarded pseudo scientific thought and now through revision its something we normally just associate with the Nazis.

That doesn’t make that the sole platform of the eco movement. There are utopian-futurists in that movement who want to see us ascend technologically (people that think of things like mass scale tidal power generation), there are opportunistic parasites (people funneling trillions of future investments to the cause so they can be a ground floor owner in that investment). There are the dogmatic zealots (think green-peace/morons like Greta) who see this like an extreme religious crusade.

There isn’t just 1 monolithic ecological identify. But what I’ve found is most of them want no discussion of the trade off to anything they are presenting as the sole and only problem. They want to just do arithmetic in a game that is regulated by calculus/physics.


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And I think people don't realize how natural the anti-human instinct is. You ever met someone  who boils issues down to "humans just suck" or "humans are a cancer on the Earth?" My wife was like that way back. Never actually acted in a way that indicated she believed it, deeply compassionate and attached to her friends and family, but if you mentioned the environment, boom, humans are the worst and we probably need fewer of them. 

 

That impulse, I think, is just part of being a species with a hyper-advanced intellect and self-consciousness/awareness as a primary characteristic. Similar to how racism is a natural but "toxic" manifestation of tribalism. Keeps you alive in the jungle, but less compatible with advanced society. These impulses must be overcome with reason and wisdom. Instead the environmental movement has given in to them absolutely. 

[Lawman]

And I think people don't realize how natural the anti-human instinct is. You ever met someone  who boils issues down to "humans just suck" or "humans are a cancer on the Earth?" My wife was like that way back. Never actually acted in a way that indicated she believed it, deeply compassionate and attached to her friends and family, but if you mentioned the environment, boom, humans are the worst and we probably need fewer of them. 
 
That impulse, I think, is just part of being a species with a hyper-advanced intellect and self-consciousness/awareness as a primary characteristic. Similar to how racism is a natural but "toxic" manifestation of tribalism. Keeps you alive in the jungle, but less compatible with advanced society. These impulses must be overcome with reason and wisdom. Instead the environmental movement has given in to them absolutely. 

Oh agreed.

I just find it fun to see how “see no evil” the people claiming to be concerned act when you point out the Eugenics origins or others from their favorite causes.

It’s like my earlier example, we can absolutely abandon petroleum… it’s just gonna cost us several billion people and a quality of life they hope to find themselves on the other side of the fence on.

Good news though, we can all get behind a real renewable oil source… whale oil.


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[gearhog]

We here in the US just spent $60 Billion to counter Russia, and $8 Billion for Taiwan to counter China.

Today, the US is drafting sanctions against China for helping Russia.

Our leadership, in their divine wisdom, is effectively forcing two world superpowers into deeper levels of cooperation. If China is going to be sanctioned for providing military assistance to Russia anyway, why would they not go ahead and open up full bore production if the US is already threatening them over the Taiwan issue? I honestly wonder who has the larger industrial production capacity, US and allies, or the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.

 

Edited April 26, 2024 by gearhog

[Biff_T]

5 hours ago, gearhog said:

Our leadership, in their divine wisdom

This.  

I don't think they've ever read a history book.  I'd recommend our leaders read a few books about WW1 and WW2.  They are setting us up, in textbook fashion, for  WW3.  Morons. 

[Skitzo]

This.  
I don't think they've ever read a history book.  I'd recommend our leaders read a few books about WW1 and WW2.  They are setting us up, in textbook fashion, for  WW3.  Morons. 

What is the alternative? Do we leave the Pacific except for remaining in Guam? What position does that put our allies in the Pacific in vis a vis an ever growing China? If we leave the Pacific we will resign our status as a Global Super Power that has sustained the current International Order and acknowledge a bipolar or multipolar world.

Is it in our nations best interest to do so?

In Ukraine, do we give up and allow Russia to take it? If we did nothing at the start isn’t that akin to Neville Chamberlain and Hitler?

I’d argue each nation with interests has its own agency in the matter and is acting in accordance with what it believes to be its own best interests. John Mearsheimer 101.

It’s a zero sum game — it’s all about power and security. Both domestically and internationally.

You could make an argument that we are already at a low level of or run up to Word War currently with Ukraine and Russia, Israel and Hamas, Iran and Israel and the Houthis. The only powder keg that hasn’t kicked off yet is in the Pacific. But, it could easily. Imagine a scenario like the P-3 colliding with a PLA aircraft in today’s geopolitical landscape.

I think the best case scenario is a rapid realization that we have deliberately set up our military to be sized for a war in one theater and deterring in another. We did that because we were still the leading superpower.

We are facing a challenge that calls into question our ability to win with our current force structure given the problems around the world.

Whether our politicians are marching us steadily towards wider conflict isn’t as important as whether or not our politicians are equipping us to win that conflict and if we will have the political will to see that conflict through.

If we are successful we delay or defeat the pattern of Great Powers not remaining Great Powers.

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[FourFans]

1 hour ago, Negatory said:

How will our economy, whose workers demand to be paid 3-5 times as much as an equivalent Chinese person, remain competitive?

1 hour ago, Negatory said:

their natural advantages of population, wages, and national unity that we just don’t have.

You apparently haven't been paying attention to what's actually happening in China.  They have none of these advantages anymore.  The one thing they had going for them was being the world's workshop...but that was economics planned by central committee.  It came at many costs, one of them being technological innovation, and it's over.  They are in the process of a demographic collapse thanks to 40 years of the one child policy.  Even if they implemented a national breeding campaign, it would take 30-40 years for them to reap the economic benefits...and they haven't.  The wage 'advantage' is no more.  Mexican labor is cheaper by almost three times now.  Mexican production quality is ALSO better.  China may be able to make things, but they can't do it cheaply anymore (their middle class wages have skyrocketed) and they can't produce anything of high quality. 

What's more, they never had a national unity advantage.  Everything their government does it to control their people, not dominate the world.  We don't have to do anything to beat the Chinese economically besides wait.  Militarily, all we'd have to do is close the Strait of Malacca and watch them starve in the dark, as they import so much food and energy.  Oh-by-the-way guess what kind of weapons we just leant to the Australians in Darwin: Cruise missiles that can hit ships in the strait of malacca from over the horizon.  As for national debt?  You think we're hurting?  Go google Chinese hyper financialization.  The dollar may or may not remain the reserve currency, but the Yuan will NOT be taking it's place in our lifetime.

Yes, the Chinese are great at long term intellectual planning, but NONE of their execution has followed any of that planning.  They are screwed and all we have to do is not save them.

Multiple historians, demographers, and geopolitical analysts have reached the above conclusions.  Ray Dalio would be one exception, but reading his work it's clear his love of china is underpinned by strong emotional ties that clearly color his analysis.  But even he doesn't paint a very rosy picture for them, specifically because of their economics and debt.

Don't listen to the rhetoric, look at the details and facts. 

Edited April 27, 2024 by FourFans

[Biff_T]

14 hours ago, Skitzo said:

Muchos good points

I'd feel more comfortable if the civilian "leaders" telling the war planners what to do weren't money/power hungry, corrupt dumbasses.   

China is ripe for a war.   I beleive It's coming soon (sts).  

[Skitzo]

 
Again, I ask, has an empire beat the long term cycle? Why will we be able to sustain power forever?

No, they haven’t but that doesn’t stop them from trying when the alternative powers are not friendly.

I think things would have been much different had the UK and USA had not been on good terms post WWII.

During the Civil War, England recognized the Confederacy’s “Belligerent Status,” stopping short of recognizing the sovereignty of the Confederacy. The Confederacy had envoys on British Naval vessels, Ala the Trent Affair.

At risk were lucrative trade deals etc, but you could also argue that fomenting conflict between the two sides by respecting a belligerent status and remaining neutral was sacrosanct endorsement that either the South could win or a stalemate could emerge.

Otherwise they would have supported the North.

Neutrality equates to not caring about a return to the Status Quo - Ante.

Applying a realist view to this, smart on the part of England because a divided America would have reduced the overall power balance by shifting it two nations instead of one. Thus increasing or safeguarding its status as the leading world power at the time ala Pax Brittanaca.

Also we are not an empire.

IMHO.


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[Biff_T]

9 hours ago, Skitzo said:

Also we are not an empire.

This

[ClearedHot]

On 4/13/2024 at 6:13 PM, FourFans said:

I’ll bet there are some Raptor dudes in the sandbox begging to get let off the leash.

Who needs a Raptor when you have a Mudhen...

[Swizzle]

1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

Who needs a Raptor when you have a Mudhen...

We do, when there is a 🎈 balloon...

 

 

 

[M2]

On 4/27/2024 at 9:52 AM, Biff_T said:

China is ripe for a war.   I believe it's coming soon (sts).  

We're already at war with China, just not the kind we are prepared to fight.

We are not winning.

[mp5g]

3 hours ago, M2 said:

We're already at war with China, just not the kind we are prepared to fight.

We are not winning.

Agreed. Reading a book right now titled Blood Money. It researches how China has been pulling strings within our society to weaken America without truly confronting America, and the absolute silence it garners from bureaucrats and politicians in Washington. Highly recommend. 
 

Blood Money: Why the Powerful Turn a Blind Eye While China Kills Americans 

Peter Schweizer

[Biff_T]

4 hours ago, M2 said:

We're already at war with China, just not the kind we are prepared to fight.

We are not winning.

I agree,  I was thinking more of a shooting war with my comment.  Millions of useless dudes.  If I were China, I'd use them to fight and die for China in a war against my enemy instead of fighting China's leadership in a revolution.    

Edited May 14, 2024 by Biff_T
Words are hard

[M2]

20 hours ago, Biff_T said:

I agree,  I was thinking more of a shooting war with my comment.  Millions of useless dudes.  If I were China, I'd use them to fight and die for China in a war against my enemy instead of fighting China's leadership in a revolution.    

Sending millions to their death is more of a Russian tactic, although I wouldn't put it past the CCP.  However, I still believe China is avoiding the armed conflict, preferring the softer approaches (information, economic, etc.)...

[Skitzo]

18 hours ago, M2 said:

Sending millions to their death is more of a Russian tactic, although I wouldn't put it past the CCP.  However, I still believe China is avoiding the armed conflict, preferring the softer approaches (information, economic, etc.)...

They definitely followed this tactic in the Korean War but yes — I believe China to be avoiding as well. They also have a completely different concept of time than we do, although Xi did assign some dates of significance 2049 etc.


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[uhhello]

President of Iran #kobe'd himself

 

 

Edited May 19, 2024 by uhhello

[DirkDiggler]

 

[08Dawg]

Sucks to suck…

[HeloDude]

1) Never trust the first DIM count

2) Given that it sounds like the weather was absolute dogshit and they were flying in the mountains…oh and that they’re Iranian pilots (I can’t imagine they’re any better than the Iraqi pilots I flew with), my bet is they’re all probably dead.

3) I’m sure Israel will be blamed for it somehow 

[Lawman]

1) Never trust the first DIM count
2) Given that it sounds like the weather was absolute dogshit and they were flying in the mountains…oh and that they’re Iranian pilots (I can’t imagine they’re any better than the Iraqi pilots I flew with), my bet is they’re all probably dead.
3) I’m sure Israel will be blamed for it somehow 

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[uhhello]

The Huey snatches one for America 🙂

[FourFans]

[Inertia17]

11 hours ago, HeloDude said:

3) I’m sure Israel will be blamed for it somehow 

Turns out, our fault again. Do we paint the helo on the Deid WX shop?

Edited May 20, 2024 by Inertia17

[ClearedHot]

1 hour ago, Inertia17 said:

Turns out, our fault again. Do we paint the helo on the Deid WX shop?

Meh...a kill is a kill.