Russian Ukraine shenanigans

[nunya]

7 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Read emotion into emotionless text much?

You still didn’t answer my question which is ultimately to please justify your original comment. Just because democrats depend on the black vote doesn’t equate to anything in your statement about flipping.

If you can't see how supporting slavery to supporting BLM is flipping I can't help you.

[Guardian]

I didn’t say I don’t have my opinions.

I am just asking for you to explain your comment. Some people claim that making a federal and state that is a welfare state is making those who are being supported to support their agenda and the equivalent of societal slaves. Hence not a flip at all. Supporting BLM doesn’t equate to anti slavery. In fact one could say that BLM in inherently racist and bigoted.

Your argument up to this point doesn’t seem to hold water. Or if I am missing what you are saying, please explain.

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, nunya said:

If you can't see how supporting slavery to supporting BLM is flipping I can't help you.

What hasn't changed is how the Democratic party still strongly believes that race is a person's most important attribute in determining who they are. 

[BFM this]

Is this another General Chang thing?  We being trolled again?

[Day Man]

this shit has nothing to do with Ukraine/Russia

[DirkDiggler]

20 minutes ago, Day Man said:

this shit has nothing to do with Ukraine/Russia

2, I really hope this thread doesn’t devolve into another left vs right pissing contest, literally half a dozen other threads to argue that shit in.

[ClearedHot]

7 minutes ago, DirkDiggler said:

2, I really hope this thread doesn’t devolve into another left vs right pissing contest, literally half a dozen other threads to argue that shit in.

Amen,

Lets get back to how the Russians suck.  In this case deliberately hurting themselves to get off the battlefield.

 

[DirkDiggler]

  To get back on track, good video of another set of Russian BMP crews getting snuffed out.

[uhhello]

2 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Amen,

Lets get back to how the Russians suck.  In this case deliberately hurting themselves to get off the battlefield.

 

Picked up a few of those in my career in AFG.  Probably not to the same scale as Ukraine operations though.  

[HeloDude]

There’s a line…and Demonrat crossed it. His recent posts and subsequent replies have been deleted.  

[DirkDiggler]

https://apple.news/AHHeYXlCnQh-8_FelwSQwVA
 

  Bunch of tough motherfuckers, hopefully they’re exchanged and get the recognition they deserve.

[Lord Ratner]

On 5/15/2022 at 12:06 PM, Prozac said:

This is a VERY recent development & it kind of boggles my mind. It has been far more common for traditional “leftists” to argue that military alliances, globalism, and extensive foreign aid (specifically military aid) should take a back seat to solving issues at home. It’s only recently that the nativist wing of the Republican Party has taken over and made this issue it’s own. The Republican Party I grew up with (the people you now call Rinos) remembered the lessons of the Second World War and understood the benefits of a more “globalist” (now a dirty word for the new “conservatives”) outlook and it was commonplace to see the more left leaning folks criticize them for it. I feel like I’m living in bizarro world now when I hear conservatives rabidly sounding the mil/industrial complex alarm and liberals advocating NATO expansion. 

Wasn't Eisenhower a republican?

 

Everything goes in waves. 

[BashiChuni]

were getting played by ukraine.

how many more BILLIONS are we going to give them?

 

[Boomer6]

On 5/19/2022 at 12:17 PM, BashiChuni said:

were getting played by ukraine.

how many more BILLIONS are we going to give them?

 

Ok, I’ll bite. How and why?

From my narrow military point of view, funding Ukraine is helping to weaken a near peer adversary. Also, I’m sure the nerds are picking apart as many of the Su-34s and Su-35s (not sure if it was multiple) components as they can to increase our SA on their capes and limitations. Additionally, I have to suspect we’re able to collect valuable data on Russian missile capes, particularly the Adder and it’s variants. No doubt there are significant amounts of intel the US can gain in all domains concerning how Russia executes combat operations.

From my narrow geopolitical point of view, if there is even a chance that our backing, along with a large number of other western/non-western nations, can push China’s timeline to the right on Taiwan, then I think it’s worth it. China is slowly distancing itself from Russia in certain aspects (to look good on the world stage of course), which will be ammunition for the rest of the world if they move against Taiwan. Ultimately, my belief is if our support for a non-NATO ally will make China rethink their plans for Taiwan and the timeline of their invasion, then the billions we’re spending in Ukraine will be a drop in the bucket to what I’m worried it will cost us in lives, assets, and treasure if China invades Taiwan in the next 10 years.

Europe reducing their reliance on Russian energy seems like a great way to cut the leash Putin has had around European leaders’ necks for some time. Hopefully that will make it easier for those same leaders to impose other sanctions on Russia without fear that their population will freeze to death. Not saying Europe has made it to this point yet, but they’re moving in the right direction. Russia, in some serious miscalculations, has helped the process along by cutting off power and demanding payment in rubles.

That’s all without addressing the horrible human toll that is taking place against non-combatants. I morally have issue with a government openly allowing their troops to rape and murder at will. For this reason alone I’m happy to send my taxpayer dollars to make sure those individuals get wiped from the earth.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Boomer6

[DirkDiggler]

  Another good video of Russians burning.

[08Dawg]

On 5/19/2022 at 6:38 AM, Boomer6 said:

Good words

Agreed. I really hope for the sake of the Ukrainian people that this doesn’t turn into a multi year slog ala Afghanistan, but I am absolutely thrilled to see the Russians getting their shit pushed in, and laughing at the absolutely incredible whiff Russian leadership made, both in how they thought the invasion would proceed, and in how they thought NATO would react. Now if somebody would just Operation Valkyrie Putin’s ass…

[DirkDiggler]

  Phenomenal shot of a Russian’s joyride cut tragically short.

[fire4effect]

On 5/19/2022 at 7:40 PM, DirkDiggler said:

  Another good video of Russians burning.

Love a good turret throwing contest

[Clayton Bigsby]

I thought this was an interesting read.  The stuff about the fight at Hostomel (Antonov) airport particularly.

https://thedebrief.org/know-no-mercy-the-russian-cops-who-tried-to-storm-kyiv-by-themselves/

[Blue]

MSM Is Empire Fanfic For Children

Caitlin Johnstone is an Australian-based writer who brings an interesting perspective to current events.

Her latest post is good in it's own right, but the thing that really stuck out was how Zelensky spoke at both the Grammys and the Cannes Film Festival (via video feed, of course).

Of the many things that are troubling about everything surrounding Ukraine, the fact you have this foreign leader speaking at these award shows seems bordering on the bizarre.  One aspect of the progressive left is how quickly and easily they are whipped up into fury over the latest cause (Covid, vaccines, BLM, etc).  Appearances by Zelensky at these events seem to point towards the continual effort to rally support for increasing involvement of the West in Ukraine.

[ecugringo]

9 minutes ago, Blue said:

MSM Is Empire Fanfic For Children

Caitlin Johnstone is an Australian-based writer who brings an interesting perspective to current events.

Her latest post is good in it's own right, but the thing that really stuck out was how Zelensky spoke at both the Grammys and the Cannes Film Festival (via video feed, of course).

Of the many things that are troubling about everything surrounding Ukraine, the fact you have this foreign leader speaking at these award shows seems bordering on the bizarre.  One aspect of the progressive left is how quickly and easily they are whipped up into fury over the latest cause (Covid, vaccines, BLM, etc).  Appearances by Zelensky at these events seem to point towards the continual effort to rally support for increasing involvement of the West in Ukraine.

It is interesting that a foreign leader gets the personnel attention mentioned.  And yeah its pretty obvious the US/West in a war with Putin via Ukraine.  Perhaps this is hte future of warfare.  Engaging enemies through a 3rd party and fully supporting them.

I have a contractor on my property in his late 50's or early 60's from Poland.  His dad was in a German camp run by Ukrainians.  He still lives in Poland but picks up work in the US for a friend.  He has an interesting take on all this.  He says the only euros you trust less than Russians are Ukrainians.  He feels bad about this whole war and doesnt want it but hes not too sympathetic either.  His far out theory is that they wanted to clear out the east from the RUssians to make way for Jewish resettlements.  Apparently Israel was looking to expand on the coast of the Black Sea and Russia said that.  IDK.  His thoughts not mine.  Either way, the whole war seems odd and a bunch of horrible decisions made but seem pretty clear to everyone else.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

One aspect of the progressive left is how quickly and easily they are whipped up into fury over the latest cause (Covid, vaccines, BLM, etc).

Cool, maybe we can veer this thread into owning the libs again…

I don’t see anything new about popular support for a foreign leader fighting an adversary. I bet the 1940 Grammys would’ve had Churchill up on sat video. You know, if they had satellites. And video. And the Grammys…

 

59 minutes ago, ecugringo said:

Perhaps this is hte future of warfare.  Engaging enemies through a 3rd party and fully supporting them.

I submit to you that this is a continuation of a long trend in warfare. Top of my head, the Soviet-Afghan War, Vietnam, Korea, Spanish Civil War, I’m sure I’m missing some. Oh here we go: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proxy_wars

Edited May 23, 2022 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Lord Ratner]

4 hours ago, ecugringo said:

His far out theory is that they wanted to clear out the east from the RUssians to make way for Jewish resettlements.  Apparently Israel was looking to expand on the coast of the Black Sea and Russia said that.  IDK.  His thoughts not mine. 

That's about the quality of analysis I would expect when you ask a Polish 50-year-old contractor about a geopolitical dispute in a region his family has deep and emotional ties to.

[ecugringo]

5 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

That's about the quality of analysis I would expect when you ask a Polish 50-year-old contractor about a geopolitical dispute in a region his family has deep and emotional ties to.

Well I didnt ask, he volunteered the opinion.  I just listen since I want a quality job done.

[Blue]

3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Cool, maybe we can veer this thread into owning the libs again…

In the context of linked article I discussed, the author makes an entirely different point.  It's not left vs right.  Both "sides" are pushing for larger and larger intervention in Ukraine, and if you buy into the typical "my political party vs your political party" argument, then you're a fool.

3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I submit to you that this is a continuation of a long trend in warfare. Top of my head, the Soviet-Afghan War, Vietnam, Korea, Spanish Civil War, I’m sure I’m missing some. Oh here we go: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proxy_wars

Our current efforts in Ukraine are clearly another proxy war.  Which, hell, I'm not even against it.  I wish Putin wouldn't have invaded, but now that he has, I see the arguments for giving various forms of support to Zelensky (military, financial, logistical, humanitarian, etc)

Where does it end though?  If you're keeping score, we have a bad track record at proxy wars:

• Korea - 1950-1953.  We're still there.
• Vietnam: 15 years of pouring blood and treasure into a country, then left.
• Afghanistan: We supported the mujahedeen against the Soviets - where the fuck did that get us?  An invite back to the country for 20 years of pain and a Global War on Terror.
• Various involvement in Central and South American proxy wars during the 80s: Not too bad for the average American.  Left those poor countries in shambles, though.

Would love to see us support Zelensky in his push to get the Russians out of Ukraine.  I'd cheer along with him as the last Russian troop walks back across the border, without his weapon.  I'd hope Biden and his team have a nice celebration in the Situation Room when that happens.

But then what?  My fear is we end up doing the same thing in Ukraine that we've done everywhere else.  We stay, and continue to pour a bunch of our national treasure into a rat hole.  Eventually we start spilling American blood there, too.

Edited May 23, 2022 by Blue