The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)

[Homestar]

8 hours ago, brabus said:

 

The majority of the “trumps a dumpster fire” crowd boils down to they don’t like his personality, how he communicates (verbal and written), etc.

 

It has more to do with his blatant lack of morality. 

[Homestar]

4 hours ago, dream big said:

Anyone remember sequestration in 2013? Flying hours cut, mishaps skyrocketed down range.  I 100% blame Obama for that.  Yeah..I’ll take Trump any day of the year. 

Obama failed to pass a budget? I don’t remember how it went down.....

[lloyd christmas]

51 minutes ago, Homestar said:

It has more to do with his blatant lack of morality. 

I think it is safe to say that judging politicians based on their morality is a mistake.  

[pawnman]

5 hours ago, brawnie said:

Just cause you want it to be a hoax doesn't make it a hoax. The "unite the right" movement, protesting the removal of Gen Lee's statues, was the entire impetus to the Charlottesville gatherings and conflicts.  They organized a march down Charlottesville's streets holding torches and chanting "blood and soil," the English translation of a Nazi slogan. In the end, one of the neo-nazi white supremacists rammed his car into a group of counterprotestors, killing one and injuring 19. Your choice - just like it's the president's choice -  to support them by saying that there are fine people on both sides, do what you want. But this was not just a small group of "state's rights" or "small government" protestors. And don't pretend like there were 10 different groups on either side - this was Unite the Right and counterprotestors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally

Also, I'd like to point out the other hypocrisy in this example. Even on this thread, you guys say to not take Trump comments literally, and that you have to actually look for what his point is. But now you are saying to only take his comments literally, and ignore the underlying meaning. You can't have it both ways.

So I guess we're completely ignoring when he said neo-Nazis and white supremacists should be condemned?

[SocialD]

1 hour ago, lloyd christmas said:

I think it is safe to say that judging politicians based on their morality is a mistake.  

 

You win the internet for the day!

[Danger41]

4 hours ago, Homestar said:

It has more to do with his blatant lack of morality. 

One of my favorite political pieces I’ve ever seen.

“Let’s imagine: It’s time to elect a world leader, and your vote counts. Which would you choose:

“Candidate A: Associates with ward healers and consults with astrologists; has had two mistresses; chain-smokes and drinks eight to ten martinis a day.

“Candidate B: Was kicked out of office twice; sleeps until noon; used opium in college; drinks a quart of brandy every evening.

“Candidate 😄 Is a decorated war hero, a vegetarian, doesn’t smoke, drinks an occasional beer, and has had no illicit love affairs.

“Which of these candidates is your choice? You don’t really need any more information, do you? Candidate A is Franklin Roosevelt. Candidate B is Winston Churchill. Candidate C is Adolf Hitler.”

[slackline]

One of my favorite political pieces I’ve ever seen.

“Let’s imagine: It’s time to elect a world leader, and your vote counts. Which would you choose:

“Candidate A: Associates with ward healers and consults with astrologists; has had two mistresses; chain-smokes and drinks eight to ten martinis a day.

“Candidate B: Was kicked out of office twice; sleeps until noon; used opium in college; drinks a quart of brandy every evening.

“Candidate Is a decorated war hero, a vegetarian, doesn’t smoke, drinks an occasional beer, and has had no illicit love affairs.

“Which of these candidates is your choice? You don’t really need any more information, do you? Candidate A is Franklin Roosevelt. Candidate B is Winston Churchill. Candidate C is Adolf Hitler.”

If that isn’t the most flawed argument to say the morality of the person we choose to lead the free world doesn’t matter, I don’t know what is...


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[Homestar]

57 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

One of my favorite political pieces I’ve ever seen.

“Let’s imagine: It’s time to elect a world leader, and your vote counts. Which would you choose:

“Candidate A: Associates with ward healers and consults with astrologists; has had two mistresses; chain-smokes and drinks eight to ten martinis a day.

“Candidate B: Was kicked out of office twice; sleeps until noon; used opium in college; drinks a quart of brandy every evening.

“Candidate 😄 Is a decorated war hero, a vegetarian, doesn’t smoke, drinks an occasional beer, and has had no illicit love affairs.

“Which of these candidates is your choice? You don’t really need any more information, do you? Candidate A is Franklin Roosevelt. Candidate B is Winston Churchill. Candidate C is Adolf Hitler.”

Somewhere in this post there is logical fallacy....(Googles Reductio Ad Hitlerum or Godwin's law)

Am I asking too much when I wish a political party nominate a person of at least average moral character?  I'm not asking for a saint.  I'm asking for someone with average levels of human compassion and decency....and one who has the first idea of how to manage during a crisis.

The willingness of Americans to look past human decency in support of their (R) or (D) baffles me.

Standing by for the inevitable whataboutist post....

Edited August 24, 2020 by Homestar
Googles

[dream big]

11 hours ago, Prozac said:

Apart from Covid? Really? Isn’t handling a crisis an important measure of presidential leadership? Maybe THE most important measure? I can’t think of one recent president that hasn’t had to handle a major crisis. A savvy president will use the opportunity to band Americans together and cement his support (think W after Sep 11). All Trump had to do was pretend to take this seriously and encourage all Americans to come together and beat the virus. He’d be a shoe in for re-election right now if he’d done that. But Trump’s biggest weakness and his biggest failure is that he only sees himself as President of his own supporters. Politics for him is a zero sum game that involves vanquishing your opponent into oblivion rather than acknowledging that the other side is here to stay and compromise is the only path to stability and prosperity in a democratic society. His “fuck blue America” attitude will be his downfall and unfortunately he’s infected the whole republican party with it. He’s transformed the entire GOP into a cynical, xenophobic, isolationist shell of its former self and all of America will be worse off for a generation due to the damage he’s done. He spent three years lining your wallet? Well I guess that’s good for you. Me? Well call me a naive idealist but I expect much more out of the leader of the free world. 

You completely missed the point.  Trump didn’t mishandle Covid.  My point was that Covid is an international pandemic and blaming Trump for its’ effects is next level stupid. Further, besides Covid, the country has been doing extremely well during his tenure.  So I fail to see why that should change besides your feelings. 

[slackline]

Trump didn’t mishandle Covid.   

Just sitting here scratching my head on this statement...


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[brabus]

7 hours ago, dream big said:

His “fuck blue America” attitude will be his downfall and unfortunately he’s infected the whole republican party with it.

The “Fuck everyone who’s not a progressive socialist!” will be the downfall of the Democratic Party. See how this goes? You are an idiot if you can’t see this bullshit coming from both sides. The problem with America is 80% of us are generally moderate +/- center a bit, but the other 20% are bat shit crazy and have consumed politics, the media, etc. Instructional Fix: The 80% get off their asses and do something about it, instead of just bitching in private and doing nothing about it. FWIW, I live in a very liberal/libertarian area. The amount of hate, intolerance, and “assimilate to us or you should fuck off and die!” is HEAVY from the left and almost non-existent from the libertarians and conservatives. It’s truly amazing to see the difference in discourse...us moderates are absolutely disgusted with it, which helps push me over the edge to the other side. So that dovetails into...
 

We have trump because of the insane bullshit the far left was pedaling - and they’ve quadrupled down in the last 3 years. I mean WTF, lots of moderates don’t want trump, but we also don’t want anti-constitution people who are attempting to shove socialism down our throats and fundamentally alter America in a negative way. Bring the Democrats back towards the center, push the far left lunatics into a new “Progressive” party, and we can have a 4 party system (the other being Libertarian) that will give better options than Trump or Kamala. The democrats even may have had me at Tulsi, but she was too moderate for them.

Edited August 24, 2020 by brabus

[tac airlifter]

45 minutes ago, slackline said:

Just sitting here scratching my head on this statement...


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With the benefit of hindsight, what should he have done differently?  
 

whatever your answer is, imagine trying to implement that COA in the Feb 2020 environment with the other party calling you racist for curtailing travel from China.  
 

There was so much flip flopping on recommendations in the early days, that all politics aside I’m really curious what you think was so obvious.  

[FLEA]

14 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

With the benefit of hindsight, what should he have done differently?  
 

whatever your answer is, imagine trying to implement that COA in the Feb 2020 environment with the other party calling you racist for curtailing travel from China.  
 

There was so much flip flopping on recommendations in the early days, that all politics aside I’m really curious what you think was so obvious.  

Remember when Democrats got pissed that Republicans beat them to the punch on a $1200 unemployment insurance check to curtail economic collapse for the economically underprivileged? 

[Sim]

[Sim]

 

 

[Prozac]

13 hours ago, dream big said:

You completely missed the point.  Trump didn’t mishandle Covid.  My point was that Covid is an international pandemic and blaming Trump for its’ effects is next level stupid. Further, besides Covid, the country has been doing extremely well during his tenure.  So I fail to see why that should change besides your feelings. 

Certainly not blaming Trump for Covid. However, his response was and continues to be an absolute shitshow.
 

His initial reaction to the crisis was that it was a hoax invented by his political opponents. Wrong. Then it was just a few cases and would be down to zero shortly (just as long as cruise ships with infected American citizens on board were kept safely offshore). Wrong. Then it was ban travel from China. Right, but too little too late (Dems we’re wrong here as well....I’ll give you that). Then it was it’ll be gone with the warmer weather. Wrong. Then it was anyone who wants a test gets a test. Wrong. Then it was shutdown the economy, but people protesting the shutdown were freedom fighting patriots. Talk about mixed messaging (but it wasn’t really mixed....Trump obviously didn’t really want to shutdown). Then it was open back up. But it was too early and without adequate safeguards like a national policy on distancing, masks, testing, or contact tracing. Then it was (and still is) Hydroxychloroquine. (Still) Wrong. Then it was inject yourself with disinfectant. What the actual fuck? Then it was let Doctors Fauci and Brix take over for a bit to appease those elitist science people, but, wink wink, we all really know Faici’s a quack. More mixed messaging. Then it was masks are stupid. Wrong. Then it was if we stop testing, we’ll stop seeing so many cases. Well, right, I guess, but sounds suspiciously like the exact same logic my 9 year old uses when he’s trying to convince me something’s not his fault. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad. 
 

Trump’s response has been disjointed and ineffective at best and in reality has been nothing short of pathetic. We have some of the highest rates of infection and mortality amongst developed nations and have become a laughingstock around the world while we should be leading the way. We have the gold standard disease research and control organization in the world with the CDC, and yet here we are with our thumbs up our collective asses. 
 

What else could the administration have done? Well, how about taking things seriously from day one for a start? Trump should’ve leveled with Americans early on about the magnitude of the disaster and the fact that we would have to make sacrifices to effect the recovery. He should’ve worn a mask in public and practiced the distancing and other protocols espoused by his own administration, demonstrating the practices Americans would need to use to get through this mess. Isn’t that what leaders are supposed to do? His administration should’ve spearheaded a massive testing and contract tracing program early on that would expedite a safe reopening of the economy. I do give them some credit for working with Congress to pass the initial stimulus bill, but what about the long term future of our economy? There is about to be a housing and lending crisis as thousands of Americans, unable to pay rent, are about to be evicted. What will become of all of the small business unable to cover their costs? Will we just let them fail? They employ half of all American workers. What becomes of them? We needed and continue to need bold ideas from our leaders to address this calamity. Instead we get deflection, excuses, and reality TV gibberish. 
 

So, no, I don’t blame Trump for COVID. But I absolutely do blame him for being completely and utterly ineffective when tested in battle. I guess he’ll try to blame it all on his bone spurs next. 

[SurelySerious]

You know what kills small businesses? States like California continuing to shut everything down. 
 

Edit: oh, and rioters and looters, if you want to go there on your concern for small businesses. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by SurelySerious

[JimNtexas]

Quote

Certainly not blaming Trump for Covid. However, his response was and continues to be an absolute shitshow.

You are mistaken about that.  Trump was acting derisively in January 2020 while Nancy Pelosi was dancing in crowded alleys in San Francisco and Biden was bitching that it was 'Xenophobic'  for Trump to restrict travel from Wuhan China.

Operation 'Warp Speed' is a real thing, something the Democrats would never have thought of.

I tracked this from the beginning. 

https://consolidatedopinions.blogspot.com/2020/04/covid-19-time-line.html

[Prozac]

58 minutes ago, JimNtexas said:

Trump was acting derisively in January 2020

He certainly was. 

[17D_guy]

1 hour ago, JimNtexas said:

You are mistaken about that.  Trump was acting derisively in January 2020 while Nancy Pelosi was dancing in crowded alleys in San Francisco and Biden was bitching that it was 'Xenophobic'  for Trump to restrict travel from Wuhan China.

Operation 'Warp Speed' is a real thing, something the Democrats would never have thought of.

I tracked this from the beginning. 

https://consolidatedopinions.blogspot.com/2020/04/covid-19-time-line.html

Yep, any day now it should be over just like he said.  We just need those bleach drinks and anal light probes.

[17D_guy]

On 8/23/2020 at 4:38 PM, pawnman said:

So I guess we're completely ignoring when he said neo-Nazis and white supremacists should be condemned?

I do remember he was apparently good with David Duke's endorsement until he said he wasn't, but wouldn't disavow it again when proof couldn't be found.

[Homestar]

If Trump were your wing commander and managed your wing's primary mission as he's done COVID, would you approve of his performance?

We excoriate commanders on here for much, much more competent leadership.

[pawnman]

32 minutes ago, 17D_guy said:

I do remember he was apparently good with David Duke's endorsement until he said he wasn't, but wouldn't disavow it again when proof couldn't be found.

Ahem.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/aug/27/joe-biden/biden-wrong-when-he-says-trump-hasnt-condemned-dav/

And now David Duke is voting Democrat.  He endorsed Tulsi Gabbard.  Which to me just says you can't control who your fans are... It's a bit like blaming Jodie Foster because John Hinckley tried to shoot Reagan.

[SurelySerious]

30 minutes ago, Homestar said:

If Trump were your wing commander and managed your wing's primary mission as he's done COVID, would you approve of his performance?

We excoriate commanders on here for much, much more competent leadership.

Our primary mission sets are pretty well known things we practice for and singularly focus on learning TTPs. That’s a terrible analogy. 

[brabus]

Prozac - You’re all over the place...

1. You’re blaming Trump for many things that the state level chose to do or not do. He is absolutely right to be hesitant at throwing down with national mandates...he’s executing in accordance with our federalist system. He let governors govern their states, as he should; not just because that’s how our system works, but because COVID effects have been wildly different within states, let alone amongst the states. This would have been one of the dumbest “one-size-fits-all” things if that’s the way we would have gone. Be pissed at governors if you disagree with their state policies regarding COVID response, but being pissed at the executive branch because they’ve executed per the law and our federalist system, while acknowledging this situation is light years away from being “standard” among the 50 states, is plain dumb. 
 

2. Mixed messaging, changing positions/opinions, etc. has been predominantly driven by the “experts” getting it wrong in a new way on a weekly basis. He was spouting what his advisors told him for the most part. Lots of unknowns that changed many times due to new info/increased understanding of the virus will obviously drive changing positions/opinions. I’d be concerned if his tune hadn’t changed throughout. I’d expect the same out of 100% of people in his position (take your hindsight vision away for a second).
 

3. Testing is available for free everywhere I’ve been...of course not in the beginning, but I fail to see how he is “wrong” about that, at least on a macro level. The U.S. has conducted the most tests in the world...so...I’ll just leave it at that. 
 

4. I agree he shouldn’t have been so flippant about it in the beginning, but AOC and Pelosi were calling people racist if they believed in the “China virus” at the same time. So, at best this is a push. 
 

5. His administration put out the economic stimulus. All while governors made draconian decisions that tanked local economies. Again, if you’re pissed about the economy, people being able to pay rent, small businesses closing, etc. then you should be glaring at the governors. They’re the ones who have fucked this up by the numbers and created all the problems you so quickly blame Trump for. 
 

6. Were #9...as in 8 countries doing worse than us, including some prominent European countries. That’s not bragging, because I’m not saying it’s great, but it’s still a far cry from the toted “worst response in the world” diatribe. This also doesn’t account for how large our country is and how connected we are with tons of other countries. There’s a lot of countries who have lower per capita deaths, but they also aren’t connected like us...e.g. this is not a direct correlation with medical capability or availability. For ex, AFG and Ethiopia are doing “better” numbers wise, but they’re also way less connected than us and you’d be retarded if you argued their medical availability/capability is in the same league as us (or better). Not saying you are arguing that specific point...
 

7. He sucks at communicating, I’m with you on that. 

Edited August 25, 2020 by brabus