The new airline thread

[Swizzle]

4 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

So... UPS voluntary RIF?

Do tell!?

[HuggyU2]

They are offering incentives for 167 senior pilots to leave by November. 
That's about 4.9% of their 3,401 pilots.
Not insignificant. 

Edited August 31, 2023 by HuggyU2

[SocialD]

This was circulating online, I haven't verified the authenticity.  Seems like a low ball early out offer.  If true, I hope they get everything they need from this program.   

[nunya]

So a maximum of $329K. Seems like a small group (i.e. retiring anyway in the next 6-9 months) that would jump on that over other "options" for your career twilight.

Edited August 31, 2023 by nunya

[FourFans]

Can confirm.  That slide is valid.

It should simply clean out the dudes that were going to retire in the next 12 months...which was about 60 mandatory retirements anyways.  Add in the dudes that are in range and just done, and I think we'll hit that target no problem.  

But it's not a good harbinger of things to come.

Edited August 31, 2023 by FourFans

[HuggyU2]

Opinion:  Does Age 67 have anything to do with it?

[artvandelay43201]

22 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

Opinion:  Does Age 67 have anything to do with it?

I second this question 

[WheelsOff]

On 8/31/2023 at 8:09 AM, SocialD said:

Seems like a low ball early out offer.    

 

Many crusty old Capts there would agree with this statement, but I along with many in the younger crowd say F these guys. They’re a bunch of greedy MFers that don’t seem to remember how good they have it making $400-500K per year to literally work part time, and will have an industry leading retirement afterwards to boot. 
 

If an extra $350K in their pocket won’t make them happy, I don’t know what could. 

[FourFans]

On 8/31/2023 at 7:50 PM, HuggyU2 said:

Opinion:  Does Age 67 have anything to do with it?

Great question.  Consensus of dudes I've spoken with seems to be that 67 would be a complete PITA, as those dude couldn't fly outside CONUS because of ICAO rules.  That would necessitate making a whole set of unique domestic lines for 65-67 year olds, many of whom are on the international fleets.  So maybe they're trying to kick the 67 can down the road until ICAO is sorted, as well as voluntarily shrinking the fleet as package volume declines.  Two birds, one stone.  Hell, from 2008 to 2014 when we didn't hire, they shrank from 3100-2200 pilots.  That could well happen again.

Long story short, no one knows and Brown a telling, but it would make sense...though I won't be surprised when they announce their parking the entire MD fleet in January...but that's 100% RUMINT. 

One fact for sure: We won't be hiring until COVID-24 kicks in.

Edited September 2, 2023 by FourFans

[SocialD]

11 hours ago, WheelsOff said:

Many crusty old Capts there would agree with this statement, but I along with many in the younger crowd say F these guys. They’re a bunch of greedy MFers that don’t seem to remember how good they have it making $400-500K per year to literally work part time, and will have an industry leading retirement afterwards to boot. 
 

If an extra $350K in their pocket won’t make them happy, I don’t know what could. 

 

 

 

If, as you say, they're making $400-$500k/yr for a "part time job," then $350k is a low ball offer, especially after the tax man takes his cut.  I can certainly see the guys who were planning on bailing anyway, jumping on it as they run out the door.  Who knows, you may even get guys on the younger side who take it and go get hired elsewhere lol.  

 

Do UPS guys keep decent medical in retirement?  If so, I could see that sweetening the pot a bit.  As an example, during covid, they gave the early out pilots 58 hours/month for 3 years and medical (as if they were employed) for 2 years.  That's closer to $700-$750k in pay spread out over 3 years plus whatever the medical is worth.  

Edited September 2, 2023 by SocialD

[WheelsOff]

On 9/2/2023 at 8:22 AM, SocialD said:

 

 

 

If, as you say, they're making $400-$500k/yr for a "part time job," then $350k is a low ball offer, especially after the tax man takes his cut.  I can certainly see the guys who were planning on bailing anyway, jumping on it as they run out the door.  Who knows, you may even get guys on the younger side who take it and go get hired elsewhere lol.  

 

Do UPS guys keep decent medical in retirement?  If so, I could see that sweetening the pot a bit.  As an example, during covid, they gave the early out pilots 58 hours/month for 3 years and medical (as if they were employed) for 2 years.  That's closer to $700-$750k in pay spread out over 3 years plus whatever the medical is worth.  

It’s truly a part time job making that much as a captain, yes, especially with the amount of OCV those old farts have available to burn every year at their tenure. Unfortunately this “low-ball” offer is probably as good a deal as UPS is gonna offer these select few. Down side is they have like 2 weeks to decide.

Yes, they offer a retirement medical plan, and it’s actually not terrible, especially for those who won’t have tricare as an option.

Edited September 3, 2023 by WheelsOff

[Springer]

23 hours ago, WheelsOff said:

It’s truly a part time job making that much as a captain, yes, especially with the amount of OCV those old farts

 especially with the amount of OCV those old farts have available to burn every year at their tenure.

but I along with many in the younger crowd say F these guys. They’re a bunch of greedy MFers that don’t seem to remember how good....

Nice.  Were you hired prior to 2008?

[hindsight2020]

I knew that ^^^^^retort was coming form the Lost Decaders.

*runs to kitchen*   Hold on y'all gotta get the popcorn!......

[FourFans]

Hey @Prozac, you're a brown dude, right?  You've been here a while, what are your thoughts?

[HuggyU2]

[hindsight2020]

23 minutes ago, FourFans said:

Hey @Prozac, you're a brown dude, right?  You've been here a while, what are your thoughts?

[Tank]

United Military Pilot Program

 https://careers.united.com/us/en/united-military-pilot-program
 

[McJay Pilot]

8 hours ago, Tank said:

United Military Pilot Program

 https://careers.united.com/us/en/united-military-pilot-program
 

Came here to post this, hell yeah! We’re bringing some birds from the schoolhaüs up to Denver for United’s “Sun and Funds” airshow this weekend. Timings just about perfect! If any of you degen’s are around, first beer’s on me! 🍻

[HuggyU2]

McJay,

What airshow are you referring to?

I have no idea what your post is trying to say. 

[McJay Pilot]

5 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

McJay,

What airshow are you referring to?

I have no idea what your post is trying to say. 

Sorry Huggy, words mean things!

United Airlines is sponsoring a Fly-in/Car Show Sunday up at Rocky Mountain Metro. We’re sending some aircraft up to talk to CO area cadets, but we’ve also been told there will be opportunities to speak with United folks about future employment opportunities. Because… accelerate networking or lose, or something like that!

[Danger41]

15 hours ago, Tank said:

United Military Pilot Program

 https://careers.united.com/us/en/united-military-pilot-program
 

One thing that kind of made me laugh about this program is that they state you’re eligible a year out from retirement. Delta says you’re eligible 2 years from retirement and 1 from separation. Good program but Delta will have a full year to pick through military applicants if that’s the way the all important algorithm is written.

[hindsight2020]

11 hours ago, Danger41 said:

One thing that kind of made me laugh about this program is that they state you’re eligible a year out from retirement. Delta says you’re eligible 2 years from retirement and 1 from separation. Good program but Delta will have a full year to pick through military applicants if that’s the way the all important algorithm is written.

 

The linked document doesn't appear to contain a timing ceiling, only a floor, unless I missed it in some footnote. In this case the floor appears to be  "greater than six months" from completion of active service. (see 6 and 7).

 

Matters not to me, as they proceed to by-name exclude AGRs from eligibility in the very next chapter anyways. 

At any rate, I was curious about your source about Delta allowing 24 months out of available date applications. They have the one junior BES that'd fit my preference/life circumstances post .mil.

[Danger41]

1 hour ago, hindsight2020 said:

 

The linked document doesn't appear to contain a timing ceiling, only a floor, unless I missed it in some footnote. In this case the floor appears to be  "greater than six months" from completion of active service. (see 6 and 7).

 

Matters not to me, as they proceed to by-name exclude AGRs from eligibility in the very next chapter anyways. 

At any rate, I was curious about your source about Delta allowing 24 months out of available date applications. They have the one junior BES that'd fit my preference/life circumstances post .mil.

I saw the one year thing when the option came out and it looks like it was changed or I simply had a fever dream and imagined that.

WRT Delta, from their website…

[Smokin]

They're both CJO's, so just like applying for multiple interviews, there is nothing that stops someone leaving AD to get CJOs from multiple airlines and picking the one he wants as he retires/separates.  Two years out gives a bit more peace of mind than six months, but doesn't really change that much.

This is a solid step in the right direction.  An even better step would be to actively recruit guys that are at the 7 or 15 year point.  Send them through indoc on a week or two of leave and then know that they're going to drop long term mil leave for 5 years.  Then you have a 99.9% chance that dude is going to show up at your airline at the 5 year point.  It is obviously not free but it's not that much either.  With how much airlines are spending on trying to create their own pipeline, this seems like an easy answer to get some top tier candidates with a very predictable timeline.

[Danger41]

Update on the United Military Pilot Hiring. Email I received this morning.