Sprkt69 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 9 hours ago, Smokin said: You need to make B-course IPs from somewhere. Just because Holloman is already a B-course doesn't mean they have two extra squadrons of IPs sitting around doing nothing. FYI, the 6 month B-course has been underway for years and the C-model only syllabus was a success for everyone except AETC who saw it as too big of a risk to continue once the D-models started coming back. This was despite the fact that there were zero additional issues with the C-model only students and I think they actually did better. As a whole, their pre-solo emergency sims were noticeably better than previous or later classes. I attribute it to the fact that they knew that if they couldn't hack it, there wouldn't be an IP in the back to save the day. Makes perfect sense to me that a single seat fighter should only be flown single seat from day one. Would you do a C-model only syllabus with internationals where English may be a third language? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungnDumb Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Forgive my ignorance on this but I keep reading about a 6 month syllabus. Is this a new thing or something current? I just got my RIP's a few days ago for B-Course at Holloman and they specify it's for 9 months (class in September, graduation in May). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Posted November 23, 2016 Author Share Posted November 23, 2016 The article mentioned the two squadrons as a temporary plus up to fix our fighter pilot shortage. I doubt that they would then send foreign students there. As far as I know, all the foreign students go to Tucson. They're experienced in that specific aspect of instruction. I have never taught a foreign student, so don't feel qualified to make a judgement on it. But the classes that were solo from start to finish at Luke had no significant issues. The only downside that I noticed was it took longer for IPs to catch poor techniques happening within the cockpit. Can't really debrief radar mech from another aircraft until you get to the debrief. I'm guessing your class starts mid to late Sep and you'll do academics exclusively while the class you're replacing is finishing up. You won't hit the flight line for a little while as you'll start with academics and sims just like UPT. The new class is usually just starting in the squadron when the old class is graduating if the timeline is working out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosuper Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 From a MX perspective, do the F-16 and F-35 FTU's have military mx troops? If so , why? Wouldn't manning the mx sq's with WG's make better sense than E's? Let the E's get their FTD training there then out to a combat coded airframes. That's alot of manpower that is tied up in training squadrons. Altus, Vance, Shepard, Laughlin etc seem to be doing fine with civilian mx. I know it's costs more to pay them on weekends and TDY's but wouldn't be more affordable having a 30 year experienced Crew Chief than an 18 year old that doesn't even know all the hand signals when it comes to sortie production? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungnDumb Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Prosuper said: From a MX perspective, do the F-16 and F-35 FTU's have military mx troops? If so , why? Wouldn't manning the mx sq's with WG's make better sense than E's? Let the E's get their FTD training there then out to a combat coded airframes. That's alot of manpower that is tied up in training squadrons. Altus, Vance, Shepard, Laughlin etc seem to be doing fine with civilian mx. I know it's costs more to pay them on weekends and TDY's but wouldn't be more affordable having a 30 year experienced Crew Chief than an 18 year old that doesn't even know all the hand signals when it comes to sortie production? As a current IP at Vance I'll be honest, MX with contractors is completely hit or miss. We have crew chiefs who are worth their weight in gold and then some but we also have people who were former greeters at Wal-Mart working on our jets. So you get a mixed bag of experience. Point in case I had an issue on my jet one day (engine out of RPM limits) and turned it back to maintenance, crew chief and supervisor both were surprised when I informed them of said issue, then I was surprised when both of them admitted that they didn't know the engine had RPM limits. Additionally we constantly run into an issue where the contractor keeps cutting people which leads to 6-9 of us just sitting in the chocks waiting to start until the crew chiefs can get to us because they're that badly undermanned. Finally contract MX sucks when it comes to non-standard issues. Example, we had a jet land at our aux field and shut down on the runway. Long story short they wouldn't let the fire department tow the jet clear because the contract stipulated that no one but them is authorized to touch the aircraft, so the jet just sat there all day. Worse is the OG/CC tried to get them to move the aircraft but their response was "not in the contract.". I could go on all day about the poor MX we have here but I won't. Granted I have limited experience with real AF MX but from my experience they've all been pretty professional and good at their jobs. Edited November 23, 2016 by YoungnDumb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosuper Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, YoungnDumb said: As a current IP at Vance I'll be honest, MX with contractors is completely hit or miss. We have crew chiefs who are worth their weight in gold and then some but we also have people who were former greeters at Wal-Mart working on our jets. So you get a mixed bag of experience. Point in case I had an issue on my jet one day (engine out of RPM limits) and turned it back to maintenance, crew chief and supervisor both were surprised when I informed them of said issue, then I was surprised when both of them admitted that they didn't know the engine had RPM limits. Additionally we constantly run into an issue where the contractor keeps cutting people which leads to 6-9 of us just sitting in the chocks waiting to start until the crew chiefs can get to us because they're that badly undermanned. Finally contract MX sucks when it comes to non-standard issues. Example, we had a jet land at our aux field and shut down on the runway. Long story short they wouldn't let the fire department tow the jet clear because the contract stipulated that no one but them is authorized to touch the aircraft, so the jet just sat there all day. Worse is the OG/CC tried to get them to move the aircraft but their response was "not in the contract.". I could go on all day about the poor MX we have here but I won't. Granted I have limited experience with real AF MX but from my experience they've all been pretty professional and good at their jobs. Yes some contractors get the mechanics they pay for. I remember helping out a T-1 make a sortie on a transit ramp by just fixing a burnt out nav light. Vance mx came unglued since it was all about the contract. Altus is all civil service and hear good things about them. Remember contract mx is all owned by corporate interests and their only loyalty is to their stock holders. Plus don't blame the mechanics, blame the contracting squadron who signed off on a shit contract. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tac airlifter Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 1 hour ago, YoungnDumb said: As a current IP at Vance I'll be honest, MX with contractors is completely hit or miss..... Every contract is different; your experience is not universal. SNC contract MX at HRT is unbelievably amazing and they are making missions happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmacwc Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 It's really cool when they strike too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosuper Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 3 hours ago, matmacwc said: It's really cool when they strike too. That is a contractor that really underbidded and makes up cost by screwing their workers by taking food off their table. Saw it in the AOR with helicopter mx, Raytheon doing good work on Army helicopters then CECOM underbids and just hires anybody off the street just to have boots on the ground. Usually its a seamless transition but when the on coming management comes in cutting pay by half everybody gives them the finger and 24hrs later in Murphy's pub in Dubai having a Stella and fries updating resumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriously Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 The best maintenance you'll ever see is in the guard/reserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhhello Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Wait until the contract shenanigans in the 58 SOW come to full effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breckey Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 It already takes 9 months for a 5 month course. I still can't believe they don't PCS folks there for some of the courses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azimuth Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 The contract MX folks at Altus for KC-135's and C-17's were phenomenal when I taught there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC5Wes Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 10 hours ago, uhhello said: Wait until the contract shenanigans in the 58 SOW come to full effect. Hasn't the UH-1N and HH-60s always been contract maintenance? Do they plan on going contract on the CV-22 and C130 side as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhhello Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 1 hour ago, MC5Wes said: Hasn't the UH-1N and HH-60s always been contract maintenance? Do they plan on going contract on the CV-22 and C130 side as well? Sorry. I was referencing the training side brown suiters and accompanying personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stract Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 16 hours ago, uhhello said: Wait until the contract shenanigans in the 58 SOW come to full effect. new contract has been in place for 2 months now. If there were going to be shenanigans, they would have happened by now. We're all professional enough to do our jobs even if we aren't wearing tan flight suits anymore. Thanks for the vote of confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhhello Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 20 hours ago, stract said: new contract has been in place for 2 months now. If there were going to be shenanigans, they would have happened by now. We're all professional enough to do our jobs even if we aren't wearing tan flight suits anymore. Thanks for the vote of confidence. Well the awe inspiring briefs that are being given don't paint that picture and it has nothing to do with professionalism. That contract is not sustainable at that level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stract Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 16 hours ago, uhhello said: Well the awe inspiring briefs that are being given don't paint that picture and it has nothing to do with professionalism. That contract is not sustainable at that level. that's a problem with how the govt wrote the contract, not with the contract instructors. Govt set an unreasonable expectation for "efficiency" and then fines the company when students are "late" (and I say late in quotes, because even if a student makes it to the flightline on time, if every syllabus event didn't occur on the day of the syllabus it was supposed to, that's a late, which is ridiculous). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 http://middlegeorgiaceo.com/news/2016/11/record-reliability-delta-marks-200th-day-without-mainline-cancellation/ Delta logged 910,000 mainline flights in a row without a cancellation this year with "contract" MX. The Air Force just sucks at writing contracts, like it sucks at managing acquisitions, manning, logistics, education, career development... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurelySerious Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 http://middlegeorgiaceo.com/news/2016/11/record-reliability-delta-marks-200th-day-without-mainline-cancellation/ Delta logged 910,000 mainline flights in a row without a cancellation this year with "contract" MX. The Air Force just sucks at writing contracts, like it sucks at managing acquisitions, manning, logistics, education, career development...The Air Force is also subject to a bunch of stupid government contracting restrictions that Delta is not. Having to award so many contracts to small business or minority owned companies etc, instead of finding the best company to do the job and being able to actually hold them accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialD Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 1 hour ago, Jaded said: http://middlegeorgiaceo.com/news/2016/11/record-reliability-delta-marks-200th-day-without-mainline-cancellation/ Delta logged 910,000 mainline flights in a row without a cancellation this year with "contract" MX. The Air Force just sucks at writing contracts, like it sucks at managing acquisitions, manning, logistics, education, career development... Ya....kinda. I had a trip that was NOOP (not operated...worked out great, went home and got paid for it anyway)...we have some pretty loose definitions of not canceling a flight. I think as long as we operate it within 24 hours, it's not considered cancelled. Just like our "on-time" performance. Oh you aren't gonna make your push...no problem, we'll push that back 15 minutes. No matter to me...I get paid the same either way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhhello Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 3 hours ago, stract said: that's a problem with how the govt wrote the contract, not with the contract instructors. Govt set an unreasonable expectation for "efficiency" and then fines the company when students are "late" (and I say late in quotes, because even if a student makes it to the flightline on time, if every syllabus event didn't occur on the day of the syllabus it was supposed to, that's a late, which is ridiculous). I'm confused because I don't think we're in any sort of disagreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindsight2020 Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 We are def not doing just fine on civil service mx down here in Azkaban aka DLF. Not even close. Just another data point for the melee. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookieRookie Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 CBMs contract maintenance is horrendously understaffed on the T-6 side due to L3 underbidding the hell out of Dyncorp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriously Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 7 hours ago, LookieRookie said: CBMs contract maintenance is horrendously understaffed on the T-6 side due to L3 underbidding the hell out of Dyncorp. Do we have any contract officers on this board that can shine some light on the contract creation process and why it always seems to suck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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