jcj Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) On a more hilarious note, this happened: http://www.vance.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123368125 Next up, SFS leaving black bags around base to see who calls in a bomb threat. ufb and where's the pic? Edited October 28, 2013 by jcj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I am so glad I'm past the half-way point in my career. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsplayr Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) ufb and where's the pic? Use the Googles young padawan... Edit to add: I'd hit it. Edited October 28, 2013 by nsplayr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17D_guy Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 This...wait, commanders are really dedicating extra time to this? This was viewed as a positive experience with value added? Had to check what she Sq she "led", yep finance. Must have done it during one of their training windows, or querying the Service Center on why the paperwork the jacked wasn't getting paid. This made me puke - "Do," not "try." Try implies it's OK to give less than 100 percent. Trying has nothing to do with the percent of effort. Wonder if she'll get a Bronze Star for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Words... I share the thoughts in your post...but weren't you one of the guys on here recently talking about how bad things were before the recent crack-down? This is how progressiveness works--it literally keeps 'progressing' until guys that supported the original measure start scratching their heads at what's now going on because it gets so fvcked up. If I've mistaken you for one the other guys on here then I apologize... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewskis Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 On a more hilarious note, this happened: http://www.vance.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123368125 Next up, SFS leaving black bags around base to see who calls in a bomb threat. Well, now I know why they didn't answer their phones at 2PM last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceman Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Use the Googles young padawan... Edit to add: I'd hit it. That is not a photo of an actress in swim wear on the beach... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waveshaper Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 8 Shaw Air Force Officers Reprimanded in Sexual Misconduct Investigation. TSgt Jennifer Smith; Quote "The Air Force's environment is so exceedingly hostile to women that many suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder as a result" http://www.theitem.com/news/shaw-air-force-officers-reprimanded-in-sexual-misconduct-investigation/article_abe8752e-94df-5294-8924-3b70ba163924.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoo Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) TSgt Jennifer Smith; Quote "The Air Force's environment is so exceedingly hostile to women that many suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder as a result" Edited October 29, 2013 by Spoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Striper_WSO Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 They drank alcohol in a debrief? The horror! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I remember hearing about a similar situation to this circa 1692 that also had tremendous results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17D_guy Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) I share the thoughts in your post...but weren't you one of the guys on here recently talking about how bad things were before the recent crack-down? This is how progressiveness works--it literally keeps 'progressing' until guys that supported the original measure start scratching their heads at what's now going on because it gets so fvcked up. If I've mistaken you for one the other guys on here then I apologize... I don't remember saying things supporting the crackdown where they grabbed books, family photos, whatever. I thought that was/is pretty stupid. I think the additional training is over blown, and the focus and leverage we're giving to the "victims of offensive material" is making us a weaker service overall. There are problems that need to be addressed, but rando swim suits isn't it. We had Maxim's confiscated here, but fitness mags were ok. Good job AF. I did side with Liquid on the sts, 69, etc stuff. I don't think those terms have a place in a professional environment. (I don't know how much you consider you Sq bar a professional environment.) I know many of you disagree and that's fine, you'll be leading the AF you can change it back later if you think it was a valuable part of your heritage. Perhaps it's just because I'm MSG that I don't get how "important" this is to everyone. Perhaps you need this stuff to kill people and break things, if so then I'm wrong. I do think it's sad the old songs, patches, and the like are being lumped in. That's true heritage of our former Airmen. Perhaps we don't use the same images/words anymore, but they shouldn't be buried, shunned and destroyed. That's a disgusting betrayal of what those men and women went through. My opinion on all of this has changed over the past 3 years as I've watched my wife struggle with the environment in her flying squadron and the blatant hostility that peers and leadership have directed towards her. I used to think the AF was fine with women and there were no problems. At least in her Sq I was wrong. Both words and actions have pushed half the females in her squadron to seek opportunities outside of the squadron and/or AF. This is in spite of the praise lauded on her by the people that have actually worked with her. It's doubly sad because she loves the flying job, but dreads the office. Like most of you all she wants to do is fly. The rumors are destructive, the targeting based solely upon the gender, the language coarse and sexualized for no reason. Should they speak up and complain? Sure they should.. but then they're ostracized more and become true outsiders in the office and on the jet. She just wants to be treated fairly and as everyone else. EDIT: Wanted to add that my grandfather retired from the AF and told both his daughter to not enlist in the AF due to how women were treated. That was back in the mid-70's. I'm not saying the service is the same as it is now, but I thought it was an interesting comment. Edited October 29, 2013 by 17D_guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jughead Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 8 Shaw Air Force Officers Reprimanded in Sexual Misconduct Investigation. TSgt Jennifer Smith; Quote "The Air Force's environment is so exceedingly hostile to women that many suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder as a result" http://www.theitem.com/news/shaw-air-force-officers-reprimanded-in-sexual-misconduct-investigation/article_abe8752e-94df-5294-8924-3b70ba163924.html Substantiated allegations against the officers include tolerating sexual harassment, failing to prevent sexual harassment, condoning display of sexually offensive materials and allowing the consumption of alcohol during post-flight debriefings. One of these things is not like the others, one of theses things doesn't belong.... C'mon, Kids, sing along!! Can YOU spot the thing that doesn't belong...? Two serious questions, if anyone knows: A) WTF is "allowing the consumption of alcohol" doing in this complaint to begin with? How is that related? B) What law/reg/policy is violated by having a drink at the end of the day, albeit (presumably?) "at work"? I apparently was a long-time & repeat-offender criminal during my AF career.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeA10 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Who was the rocket surgeon that spent money on this test? For half the price in $1 and $20 increments, you could have gone to Vegas and completed this study. Not sure how the AF is going to remove this genetic defect out of everybody but I expect some of you guys will hear about it in the near future. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/29/body-shape-objectification-technology/3287287/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waveshaper Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 One of my most embarrassing true stories on this subject. Myself a SNCO and another SNCO who worked for me a the time were doing some Demo ops on the range. We had an observer with us by the name Colonel Mary Hertog and she was wearing blues (blue blouse with dark blue skirt). Me, my cohort, and Colonel Hertog were in the safe area, with Colonel Hertog standing in between us. The detonation shock wave hit us and my cohort turns to Colonel Hertog an states "I bet that blew your skirt up Ma'am" in a nonchalant tone of voice. I immediately cringed awaiting our imminent #&@ chewing. The good Colonel never chewed us out on the spot or even later on, she politely thanked us for the demonstration and departed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BONE WSO Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I don't remember saying things supporting the crackdown where they grabbed books, family photos, whatever. I thought that was/is pretty stupid. I think the additional training is over blown, and the focus and leverage we're giving to the "victims of offensive material" is making us a weaker service overall. There are problems that need to be addressed, but rando swim suits isn't it. We had Maxim's confiscated here, but fitness mags were ok. Good job AF. I did side with Liquid on the sts, 69, etc stuff. I don't think those terms have a place in a professional environment. (I don't know how much you consider you Sq bar a professional environment.) I know many of you disagree and that's fine, you'll be leading the AF you can change it back later if you think it was a valuable part of your heritage. Perhaps it's just because I'm MSG that I don't get how "important" this is to everyone. Perhaps you need this stuff to kill people and break things, if so then I'm wrong. I do think it's sad the old songs, patches, and the like are being lumped in. That's true heritage of our former Airmen. Perhaps we don't use the same images/words anymore, but they shouldn't be buried, shunned and destroyed. That's a disgusting betrayal of what those men and women went through. My opinion on all of this has changed over the past 3 years as I've watched my wife struggle with the environment in her flying squadron and the blatant hostility that peers and leadership have directed towards her. I used to think the AF was fine with women and there were no problems. At least in her Sq I was wrong. Both words and actions have pushed half the females in her squadron to seek opportunities outside of the squadron and/or AF. This is in spite of the praise lauded on her by the people that have actually worked with her. It's doubly sad because she loves the flying job, but dreads the office. Like most of you all she wants to do is fly. The rumors are destructive, the targeting based solely upon the gender, the language coarse and sexualized for no reason. Should they speak up and complain? Sure they should.. but then they're ostracized more and become true outsiders in the office and on the jet. She just wants to be treated fairly and as everyone else. EDIT: Wanted to add that my grandfather retired from the AF and told both his daughter to not enlist in the AF due to how women were treated. That was back in the mid-70's. I'm not saying the service is the same as it is now, but I thought it was an interesting comment. I have been in multiple flight squadrons with plenty of females and I have NEVER seen anything like what you are referring to. All the females were treated with respect and I have never seen any of the targeting, rumors, or sexualization you are speaking of. It sounds like the squadron your wife is in has a problem. The rest of the flying community is not like this so please don't generalize this as a "flying squadron" problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Words... Dude, are you new here or something? When the politicians get involved it's always a huge knee-jerk reaction that is taken to the extreme. Sexual harassment and assault was illegal 7 years ago, and yet we were allowed to have Maxim's on the desk, say 'so to speak' (which I think is just a stupid saying anyway), mention 6.9 seconds, have funny Friday patches, etc. But yet, not everyone was sexually harassing females and not every female was feeling sexually harassed. But in typical fashion, the leadership was told by the politicians to fix the problem and so the leadership went overboard to cover their ass. All the leadership had to do was investigate and prosecute as necessary those 'specific' instances of sexual harassment and assault, and discipline/remove the leadership involved as necessary if they weren't doing a good job. So hate to say it man, it's your line of thinking that has caused all these issues, whether you wanted it go forward to this level or not. I can be against sexual harassment and assault while at the same time saying 'so to speak' once in a while after a sexual innuendo or mention that I ran my 1.5 in 11 min and 6.9 seconds without offending anybody (male or female)...but since it was deemed as 'potentially' offensive, the knee-jerk reaction was to end all of it without only dealing with specific instances where there were problems. And I'm not sure if you realize this or not, but anytime you, I, or somebody else is teased or is the topic of a joke, then it can be considered offensive. If my buddy teases me about my car being old, is he harassing me of my disabled brother who I give money to and hence why I can't afford a new car? If we make fun of someone because it looks like they didn't get much sleep the night before, are we offending them because maybe they are having PTSD issues and can't get a good night's sleep? I can give more examples if necessary, but I think you get the idea. Should we outlaw all joking in the military, or just be sensible and and deal with issues when the come up? That also goes along with people either directly telling the other person to cut it out or using the chain of command/IG complain process as necessary? The leadership is turning this military gig more and more into an everyday job and that's how more and more people will begin to treat it--like a 9-5 job, do what's needed, skip out on the going away parties after work hours, put your self interests first above the mission because leadership doesn't have your back... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiefSlapahoe Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 This is a knee jerk reaction. This would be the equivalent of banning squadron bars, beer, liquor, alcohol swabs, listerine, etc. because someone was stupid enough to get a DUI. You punish the action...severely, not the other people. A few years ago when we were not supposed to use USBs in computer...but everyone just ignored it. Then one day we show up to the squadron and are threatened by the SQ/CC with an Article 15 if you ever put a USB inside a computer ever again. That was the fastest enactment I'd ever seen. You punish the crime severely enough, then people will be afraid enough to ever have to worry about fighting other fights that don't really matter. Our job is to break stuff and kill people, which is not exactly a corporate America type job. People need happy thoughts and distractions and having a photo of your significant other in their swimsuit isn't going to cause sexual assault: the asshole is going to cause it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcj Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 That is not a photo of an actress in swim wear on the beach... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Next up, paperwork if you don't follow through well enough on contrived exercises.http://www.acc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123368616 While the black eye Senior Airman Jennifer Bradshaw had was fake, the reactions others had were not. This was the very lesson being taught during the Family Advocacy Domestic Violence Awareness Black Eye Event Oct. 22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUSEPLUG Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 If they keep this shit up, eventually we'll just ignore things like black eyes, risqué photos and unusually places backpacks, assuming it's another stupid training point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialD Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 An appropriate response would have been...shouldn't have talked back! If they had 2 black eyes...guess you're a slow learner. Would love to see if they tried to hand out paperwork for not helping someone with a fake black eye? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeA10 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) This is not being taught at the Weapons school....yet. Apparently, for better mission effectiveness in the future, you can't push to the target until you have fullfilled certain quotas guaranteeing a diverse package. (Can I still say package or has that gone on the "do not say" list, also?)http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/362539/pentagons-chief-personnel-and-readiness-officer-diversity-and-inclusion-critical Edited October 30, 2013 by TreeA10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurelySerious Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 This is not being taught at the Weapons school....yet. Apparently, for better mission effectiveness in the future, you can't push to the target until you have fullfilled certain quotas guaranteeing a diverse package. (Can I still say package or has that gone on the "do not say" list, also?)http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/362539/pentagons-chief-personnel-and-readiness-officer-diversity-and-inclusion-critical There's a solid WTF: Diversity is the desired end state, not mission effectiveness. I like where this is going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ratner Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 My opinion on all of this has changed over the past 3 years as I've watched my wife struggle with the environment in her flying squadron and the blatant hostility that peers and leadership have directed towards her. I used to think the AF was fine with women and there were no problems. At least in her Sq I was wrong. Both words and actions have pushed half the females in her squadron to seek opportunities outside of the squadron and/or AF. This is in spite of the praise lauded on her by the people that have actually worked with her. It's doubly sad because she loves the flying job, but dreads the office. Like most of you all she wants to do is fly. What aircraft? Not trying to identify her, just trying to get a better sense of which community this story relates to. Not all flying squadrons are even remotely alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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