Clark Griswold Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) Check the JQP section.Done - read more on this and once again I ask how much further down the road to crazyville can the AF go?Thanks btw. Edited October 21, 2015 by Clark Griswold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17D_guy Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 And.. check it again. Massive bad news update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Griswold Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) And.. check it again. Massive bad news update.Do you mean the latest you and your phone, computer, post, whatever, etc... are open for scrutiny, search, investigation and you are responsible for every communication that can be judged with out cause ?From JQP:http://www.jqpublicblog.com/in-message-to-wing-commanders-welsh-declares-zero-privacy-doctrine-for-all-airmen/This is Orwellian. Edited October 22, 2015 by Clark Griswold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stract Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Do you mean the latest you and your phone, computer, post, whatever, etc... are open for scrutiny, search, investigation and you are responsible for every communication that can be judged with out cause ?From JQP:http://www.jqpublicblog.com/in-message-to-wing-commanders-welsh-declares-zero-privacy-doctrine-for-all-airmen/This is Orwellian.glad there's an entire forum below dedicated to JQP stuff. Where this article is already posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeHoler Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 13 year UPT commitment. Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookieRookie Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 13 year UPT commitment. Discuss.There will still be droves of twenty two year olds signing on the dotted line for the chance to fly the biggest baggest aircraft in the world.Down the road there will just be 3 more years of anger as these year groups see when they would have formally gotten out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guineapigfury Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 There is always the tank your career on purpose technique. Passed over twice trumps ADSC remaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chida Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) I signed a SOU in 1998 when I first got to USAFA that read "Should I graduate USAFA, get selected for UPT, and graduate UPT, I understand that I am committed to a 10-year post-UPT ADSC." That was, in effect, a 16 year contract that I signed when I was 18 years old. It was too much, but I signed it anyway because what else was I going to do? They had me over a barrel. 13 years?! That equates to a 19 year contract! That is outrageous especially since it doesn't fix any systemic problems.For the years 2010-2013, AF was peeing their pants about "record retention!" and in my opinion failed to notice that it was because (in large part) the 10-year ADSC was finally coming home to roost. Thus, AF was kicking people out with wild abandon. But that's what they want. They don't want people to have the freedom to leave. They want to pick and choose who they consider worthy to stay in. So the extended ADSC is not about manning, it's about power: Power to dismiss those they don't want (through RIF, 2x FOS, etc) and power to hold onto those they do want regardless of individuals' desires. This way AFPC doesn't have to plan ahead for anything (except the next RIF or promotion board). Edited October 23, 2015 by Chida 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Griswold Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 glad there's an entire forum below dedicated to JQP stuff. Where this article is already posted.Valid quibble.On the 13 year UPT commitment, seems an odd number but they could make it 15.5 years and they probably could fill the bucket still, aviation runs on dreams.For the years 2010-2013, AF was peeing their pants about "record retention!" and in my opinion failed to notice that it was because (in large part) the 10-year ADSC was finally coming home to roost. Thus, AF was kicking people out with wild abandon. But that's what they want. They don't want people to have the freedom to leave. They want to pick and choose who they consider worthy to stay in. So the extended ADSC is not about manning, it's about power: Power to dismiss those they don't want (through RIF, 2x FOS, etc) and power to hold onto those they do want regardless of individuals' desires. This way AFPC doesn't have to plan ahead for anything (except the next RIF or promotion board).Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icohftb Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 13 year UPT commitment. Discuss.is this speculation or based on anything official? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 The whole calculus changes when the retirement system goes to a 401k style with matching. I wouldn't be thrilled with the longer commitment, but no one would be stuck since they're so close to 20 by the time their UPT commitment is up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HU&W Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 The whole calculus changes when the retirement system goes to a 401k style with matching. I wouldn't be thrilled with the longer commitment, but no one would be stuck since they're so close to 20 by the time their UPT commitment is up. Agreed. Cliff vesting is easily the most effective retention tool for mid-level members, both E and O. That said, what's to stop the bean counters from deciding that 20 years is the magic payback number for the privilege of being a pilot? Far fetched? It's really not that much more than 13, and people will still line up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 From what I've heard, a longer UPT ADSC is the only serious option being considered by HAF to "fix" the pilot retention problem. For the cadets reading this, don't sign a 13 year contract or a 15 year contract. According to this year's retention statistics, > 50% of you will regret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeHoler Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 From what I've heard, a longer UPT ADSC is the only serious option being considered by HAF to "fix" the pilot retention problem.Checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoleIt Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I don't see this will stop cadets from gunning for pilot slots. I doubt it would have stopped me given my low level of knowledge and high level of blue kool aid.And, sadly, this will be a decent band-aid stop gap for future manning. It's a lot easier to make, for all intents and purposes, 20 year slaves rather than fix retention properly by eliminating queep and making the job more appealing for those already in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Plus, think of the bonus money it will save! Genius! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Hungus Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I don't see this will stop cadets from gunning for pilot slots. I doubt it would have stopped me given my low level of knowledge and high level of blue kool aid.I get approached by about 3-5 people a year asking for advice on becoming an Air Force pilot. I tell all of them that I can't in good faith recommend they go the active duty route. If they can't go guard/reserve, it's not worth going at all.I've been personally thanked by a few of them once they get to UPT and realize the bullet they dodged. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czecksikhs Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I'd have signed a 13/15/20 year ADSC as a cadet, and I hate the AF. I probably would have even been excited about it: guaranteed retirement! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFM this Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Plus, think of the bonus money it will save! Genius!True: without a rewrite of the bonus, I don't think anyone would be eligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy pilgrim Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 A longer commitment will retain pilots at significant costs of work force quality, morale and future recruitment. (Quality will continue to be sacrificed for quantity.)There is substantial survivor-ship bias occurring at the senior leadership level. This causes the perceived long-term consequences of this to be unrealistically discounted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majestik Møøse Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I get approached by about 3-5 people a year asking for advice on becoming an Air Force pilot. I tell all of them that I can't in good faith recommend they go the active duty route. If they can't go guard/reserve, it's not worth going at all.I've been personally thanked by a few of them once they get to UPT and realize the bullet they dodged. Dude, stop giving people bad gouge. Just because you hate flying AF jets doesn't mean we all do. My current assignment feels like the best job in the world. I've got a great family and a nice house in the mountains and the flying is amazing. Would I rather be a 767 bus driver for 50% more pay? No, not at this point in my life. I love this job.I'm not in AMC anymore so maybe that's it. But seriously, in the grand scheme of things, the Air Force can be pretty awesome. The real world sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoleIt Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Dude, stop giving people bad gouge. Just because you hate flying AF jets doesn't mean we all do. My current assignment feels like the best job in the world. I've got a great family and a nice house in the mountains and the flying is amazing. Would I rather be a 767 bus driver for 50% more pay? No, not at this point in my life. I love this job.I'm not in AMC anymore so maybe that's it. But seriously, in the grand scheme of things, the Air Force can be pretty awesome. The real world sucks.People ask him for his opinion and he gives it, can't fault him for that.I am talking to a freshman cadet right now that is asking me questions about AD. I honestly don't know how I will answer the inevitable, "should I join/be a pilot?" A year ago at my previous assignment, I would have said yes. Currently, I am not as confident. I can't imagine the morale improving any time soon either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prozac Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Dude, stop giving people bad gouge. Just because you hate flying AF jets doesn't mean we all do. My current assignment feels like the best job in the world. I've got a great family and a nice house in the mountains and the flying is amazing. Would I rather be a 767 bus driver for 50% more pay? No, not at this point in my life. I love this job.I'm not in AMC anymore so maybe that's it. But seriously, in the grand scheme of things, the Air Force can be pretty awesome. The real world sucks.Disagree. Having seen both sides of the fence, I think advising someone to go to the Guard/Reserve route over AD is fantastic advice. Are there some good times to be had on Active Duty? Of course. Hell, I had a couple of outstanding assignments. The problem is, you have far to little control over that process, and you just might spend the better part of a seemingly great assignment deployed to some shithole. It was bad enough with a ten year commitment. I can't imagine advising someone to sign on the dotted line for thirteen or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Man Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 The real world sucks.It can...so can the Air Force. The real world also doesn't check your cell phones, or send you across the globe to make ppt slides, or wonder where you're going over the weekend. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Dude, stop giving people bad gouge. Just because you hate flying AF jets doesn't mean we all do. My current assignment feels like the best job in the world. I've got a great family and a nice house in the mountains and the flying is amazing. Would I rather be a 767 bus driver for 50% more pay? No, not at this point in my life. I love this job.I'm not in AMC anymore so maybe that's it. But seriously, in the grand scheme of things, the Air Force can be pretty awesome. The real world sucks.What are you flying and where are you stationed, if you don't mind me asking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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