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At least 10 years of real-world data using voluntarily vaccinated as the sample. Then mandates must be proportional to the threat, so only mandates where they make sense. Hospitals and schools. Children when the disease actually threatens children. The severity of the disease is the true regulator of vaccination rates. If COVID-19 was killing people like SARS or MERS(10-30%), people would line up for the vaccine, just like they did in Feb/March when it came out and all the fat/old people who were most at risk went and got it. After 10 years of studying the vaccine effects, then you can make it mandatory as well as punish people on their insurance premiums if they won't get it. Disclaimer, I'm voluntarily vaccinated, so your stupid and hysterical arguments are not just ridiculous-sounding to the anti-vax crowd.

Good question. Unfortunately I suspect it will a substantial amount negotiated under the table and kept from the taxpayers by our spineless leadership who left them there in the first place.

I already did that, with the data that’s available (my risk from COVID vs. VAERS). It’s about equal risk, slightly favoring not taking the vaccine, for the < 50 age group with no underlying med conditions. The bigger elephant in the room is what are the potential long term adverse reactions? Nobody knows, and that’s the biggest factor for many. No one can make any statistically significant argument that immediate adverse reactions equal the driving decision to not get the vaccine, but why get a vaccine that does so little for you (again, the healthy/young crowd specifically) in trade for an unknown longterm risk (could be very low, but could be bad). Also, if you’ve had COVID, you are significantly better protected than if you just had the vaccine, so no scientific reason to get the vaccine if you’ve managed to already have COVID. None of this is a “no brainer;” it’s dependent on many variables that differ from person to person. To say COVID vaccination is a blanket “obvious,” “no brainer,” etc. decision one way or the other for everyone out there is ignorant, selfish, or both.

10000% shack. You’re completely right about the long term phased planning. And then add at least 20% to every quantifiable metric (especially time). The other thing that absolutely drives me bananas with air power experts is that when the ground force commander says something, they just go “okay”. NO! Offer the realistic answer and tell the truth. The GFC is just some guy the same way we all are and they aren’t infallible. It’s almost like we’ve got people that are afraid to tell ground folks they can’t do something. There’s a difference between a Ranger digging deep to keep moving through physical exhaustion to reach an objective and an airplane running out of gas. Flip side of that is find a way to “yes” and don’t hide behind interpretive rules to say no to everything. If there’s a T-3 waiver needed for mission accomplishment and you can do it, get that guy on the phone and get it waived. Sorry for the rant. This topic gets under my skin.

Here's the plan that was briefed to POTUS.

What do you assume the “conspiracy” is? some people are willing to stand up for freedom. Some are not. Most of those standing up for freedom lean republican, so what. There are patriot Dems too. dems own the media and can propaganda their way to anything. That’s coming to an end eventually. The silent majority is more powerful than the current regime. They are awakening a sleeping giant IMO.

Ah, I think I see the disconnect, as I actually agree with you. I’m not saying don’t hold them accountable, if someone is a piece of shit then fire them. The way your previous post read (to me, at least) is we should fire people if they don’t exactly adhere to their bosses vision. One of the biggest failures I’ve seen (in two different branches now) is an unwillingness to tell someone they suck, and to actually document it. Instead, they write them a glowing evaluation and send them on their way.

And, oh yeah...

Watching this conversation-action makes for a snack bar trip...

I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but yes, to answer your question. Had Fauci stood up at the beginning and told everyone not to buy masks because the people who need them more than you would not be able to get them, then yeah, I would trust him more, and so would a lot of other people. For many people, trusting the government in a situation like this probably figures pretty heavily in their decision matrix. Instead, he lied to us. It was a "noble" lie, but it was a lie none-the-less. At the end of the day it's hard to trust someone who secretly thinks you're stupid, but is also simultaneously and constantly stepping all over their own dick. For me it's about not one more fucking inch. Vaccine passports in NYC? Get fucked.

Point of order. Just because they've been out of their lane for 10 years doesn't mean it's not a power grab. It is. They clicked the burner on way back then and now the temperature is being turned up. Organizations exercising authority outside of their mission statement is abusing power. Now we can argue whether or not all those things should fall under the umbrella of the CDC. Some would say yes, others (me) would say no. In fact, I think the very attempt to classify these things as "diseases" is overloading our language and is meant to be able to create an avenue to exercise power where there is no other clear means to do so. That, I would say, is the definition of "power grab."

@frogI wouldn’t be so quick to condemn torqued’s words as hyperbole that lacks historical context. For times sake, just referencing you’re first point of hitler…Germany, 1933 up to invasion of Poland: - Hitler takes control, Nazi party consolidates power by taking multiple measures to snuff out other political parties, merges powers to be as centralized as possible. For example, the Reichstag Fire Decree, curtailed freedom of expression, with police empowered to search out and arrest those that were deemed a “threat” to the state. US example: Inaug day and “EVERYONE was an insurrectionist,” but massive BLM/antifa riots were “mostly peaceful.” See next point… - Cinema and mass rallies organized and aimed at changing public opinion to be in favor of the Nazi party - Education became focused around race (e.g. race is the most important factor that drives XYZ)…weird, where have I seen this today? There’s more. So I’m not saying we’re exactly like Germany during the rise of the Nazi party, but one’s eyes are firmly glued shut if they don’t see some very concerning parallels. Don’t repeat history’s mistakes; if you think we’re not or it “can’t happen here,” you (the royal you) are incredibly wrong.

So... after 102 pages of discussion and back and forth... does using a seatbelt increase or decrease my odds of getting COVID?

But I'm not.... So you apparently are unable to follow what's going on. I have every vaccine in the DoD inventory, including COVID which I got in February of 21. (One of the earliest) I'm making a stand on ethics and morality and you are simply stuck in a black and white worldview thats selfishly interested in removing bodily autonomy from everyone else so you can go about a normal life again. Get over yourself bro.

Equating polio with COVID is apples to oranges. It’s a non starter for your argument.

Combat Rescue Helicopter…because only using the word “Rescue” would be a disservice.

Combat Talon...

How far we have fallen when we can't seize an airfield without blinking. I can't even remember how many nights I sat over the airfield killing AAA pieces while the cud chewers flailed in the Chutes and Ladders trying to work timing and spacing. Even back then we could still seize an airfield while the E's burned a weezer blowing smoke out the 105MM and the EWO distracted by the latest edition of Penthouse.

It's the Pfizer vaccine. This is like demanding the military give you Motrin instead of ibuprofen.

Country is split 50/50 on politics, and has devolved into basically two camps, both with the mentality of “if you aren’t with us, you’re against us”. This leads to people digging in their heels to stand their ground, right, wrong or indifferent, not based on their actual belief on the issue at hand, but based on how the issue has been tooled to meet the needs of their party. Talk to a Biden supporter about Trump, they’ll be all “f*ck Trump”. Talk to a Trump supporter about Biden, same deal. That right there is the crux of the issue, you have people so afraid of the other party and being labelled a dem or republican because of what other people might think about them. Same tactic that has been used for centuries to turn one group of people against the other is just being employed by both poltical parties. You can see it in the blatant hypocrisy that is rampant, which there are so many examples of, to list them would make me vomit. Edit to add: I wholeheartedly believe only way it will get fixed is a 3rd political party entering the fight. Would take a very strong leader, and significant republicans and democrats BOTH breaking off and saying enough is enough. A party where responsible gun ownership doesn't make you hate guns, wanting a secure border doesn't make you a racist, clean domestic energy (not from the middle east) doesn't make you tree hugging nerd, etc.

We're witnessing the biggest seizure of power in history. It sounds like hyperbole until you realize it's not. Pay attention. Newly empowered Center for Disease Control is bringing gun violence under its authority. https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/27/health/cdc-gun-research-walensky/index.html

Cool, they should also charge an extra $200 for anyone with a BMI > 25, to keep it equitable. And if they were truly genuine, they should probably charge $400 for BMI > 30, which probably accounts for 50% of their workforce

Retention will tank further; every passing day proves it…I agree. I disagree about the 30%, they were at worst willing to stay. I also disagree it takes any of those thing listed to make it to 20 years. That said, we’re in a bad way. Centralized Command, Decentralized Control, and the lower echelons of Command AND the highest levels of Control are both incentivized to just say yes, beyond reason. It’s clear to those who can see it, at the highest and lowest levels. It’s a great job (calling even) this AF pilot gig…it’s a horrible place to spend a career. Don’t ever think it’s the same for 20 years…be a pilot, serve your country, then choose for yourself if this is what you want. Most of us stay because we think others need help/protection. If no one cared about people, the take rate would round down to zero. IMO. Don’t take the bonus unless you love/will love what you’re doing…to each their own. ~Bendy Sent from my iPad using Baseops Network mobile app

Tower control means d$ck all, though in general towers tend to be proxies for ARFF services (part 139 certifications is a better proxy). KLAW is an ARFF index B facility during air carrier ops (aka operating hours), and it is 7 minutes away by T-38. That's just not in dispute. The argument could be made that the risk of a botched landing attempt of an otherwise non-emergency aircraft (I'm sorry if you all disagree, but that is the T.O. categorization of a single gen good cross in the T-38, unless a compound EP/failure presents itself), in a field without crash services, where one was available 7 minutes away, is not justifiable and demonstrates a pattern of improper decision making in the eyes of the guy who owns the iron. That's it man. You don't agree? Cool. Feel free to win the hearts and minds when they make you OG. This isn't an abstraction for me in the least. I work in the same community and know who I'm beholden to when I decide that a quick-tempered Leroy Jenkins is warranted, and shine my #ss out there in the NAS with a tail I don't have personal OPCON over. I further decide I don't like that construct? I can always sit on my hands, turn in my wings and eat the paddle I got coming to my *ss like a full-retard-Scheller. There are hills to die on in this life.... but not everything is one. To each their own. But you tell me. You're the one who started a thread asking about what could warrant a Q3, but don't provide any truth data required to inform the position you're arguing against in the first place. That reads to me like you know the answer you want, but have heartburn with any position that doesn't feed that confirmation bias. Corroborate that any compounding factor to that simpleton non-emergency is at play here, and you'll have my 100% vote on that Q3 being bullsh$t. Until then, we're just throwing hypotheticals here, and my guess is as good as yours.

That's fine. I got what I wanted. Y'all are either getting vaccinated or getting out.