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Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

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FY20 is a year and a half away. Much can change between now and then. Did the VCSAF mention offering the bonus this year and next? Or is it understood to be dead with the “chance” congress will approve something well into the future?

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AFRC AGR bonus for FY18 is 35K/yr throttable between 1 thru 3 year contracts, no apparent discount for renewal contract versus initial, which is a change from previous years. Also, everybody gets the 35K up to 24 YAS, which was the other big change. ART bonus is 18K/yr with one year minimum to a maximum contract length to 25YAS.

All in all, thanks for the free money Blue, but it's not changing the calculus of those who are intent on getting airline jobs. Once they get the airline job, they'll cash this bonus, but not a day before. Not sure how this changes anything in the AFRC. The TR invol IA are absolutely killing morale and retention down here, fix that instead. There's no pay problem here (well, TRs getting their flight pay still jacked up is a problem), only a QOL one, and its costing them the kitty, just like the regAF.

As to them going to a dedicated career field incentive pay on a year to year float index, to the tune of 6K/mo increase over today's water line? ROFL. You guys crack me up. 

 

 

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This is actually a proposal that makes sense to me. Align the program with something like the doctors (which unlike the airlines, we can make up for using the economy) and pay accordingly.  And the number being aligned with the market actually may move the needle for a few folks. It still doesn’t change block time or quality of life issues, but it’s a start. 

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7 hours ago, war007afa said:

This is actually a proposal that makes sense to me. Align the program with something like the doctors (which unlike the airlines, we can make up for using the economy) and pay accordingly.  And the number being aligned with the market actually may move the needle for a few folks. It still doesn’t change block time or quality of life issues, but it’s a start. 

What do you mean "unlike" the airlines? That's not what @LookieRookie posted. He said the brief specifically mentioned pay that's re-assessed EVERY YEAR based on market indices specific to your civilian equivalent

I want zero to do with my hard-pay indexed to airline hiring. Soft pay, knock yourself out, but not hard-pay. That's why I don't support going to the doctor model for a 'pylet'. This skillset is simply not that market resilient in the civilian world. 

But this is all to do about nothing. This proposal has fvck all chance of getting passed by Congress. Stop loss has a higher chance of happening in earnest on FY20 than this pipedream. Either way, we're kind of a captive audience here in the mil side. The only play is to exit stage.

 

Edited by hindsight2020

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I'd rather just see either the bonus or flight pay go up, and not be indexed to the economy. Times are good now, but there's no guarantee how long that'll last.

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23 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

The question was asked if you've already signed up for the bonus do you keep the bonus and get the professional pay. The answer was, "Yes, you will get both." with a follow-up of "we know there's going to be a mutiny if we try and take the bonus money away from people so a small number of people will end up getting both." Or at least that what I heard from a guy that knows a guy..

If you like your bonus you can keep your bonus. 

  • Haha 2

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$6k/mo is equivalent to a $72k/yr bonus...without a fixed ADSC.  I doubt it!

Big Blue would not suddenly give that good a deal.  I'd expect stop loss and 365s first.

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2 minutes ago, raimius said:

$6k/mo is equivalent to a $72k/yr bonus...without a fixed ADSC.  I doubt it!

Big Blue would not suddenly give that good a deal.  I'd expect stop loss and 365s first.

It's actually pretty smart... pays enough to keep people in who have done all the calculations and understand the kind of QOL that airline pay is offering them,

...then, when airline hiring slows to a drip, so does the professional pay. Genius.

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AFRC AGR bonus for FY18 is 35K/yr throttable between 1 thru 3 year contracts, no apparent discount for renewal contract versus initial, which is a change from previous years. Also, everybody gets the 35K up to 24 YAS, which was the other big change. ART bonus is 18K/yr with one year minimum to a maximum contract length to 25YAS.
All in all, thanks for the free money Blue, but it's not changing the calculus of those who are intent on getting airline jobs. Once they get the airline job, they'll cash this bonus, but not a day before. Not sure how this changes anything in the AFRC. The TR invol IA are absolutely killing morale and retention down here, fix that instead. There's no pay problem here (well, TRs getting their flight pay still jacked up is a problem), only a QOL one, and its costing them the kitty, just like the regAF.
As to them going to a dedicated career field incentive pay on a year to year float index, to the tune of 6K/mo increase over today's water line? ROFL. You guys crack me up. 
 
 
ART bonus 18k per year with a contract? ANG is giving 25% bonuses to IP's with no strings attached. Figure out what 25% on GS-13-06 is (almost $30k). Payed out bi-weekly. What does the OPM say about biweekly payed incentive bonuses for GS's? It says if you resign as a GS, you get to keep what you've gotten. They can't hold you to a contract unless it's payed lump sum.

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On 4/20/2018 at 8:15 PM, LookieRookie said:

$6k/month.

6,000 per month x 12 months x 12471 pilots = $897,912,000.  Also know as $900 million or just shy of $1 billion.  No way in hell Congress approves this or even half this amount for more senior folks.

This kind of additional pay is game changing. I had a conversation with my wife along the lines of, "I know we talked about airlines but what if I stayed in and earned $192K/year?"  Granted that conversation ended with "Haha - it'll never happen!"

Edited by ColoradoAviator
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16 minutes ago, ColoradoAviator said:

This kind of additional pay is game changing. I had a conversation with my wife along the lines of, "I know we talked about airlines but what if I stayed in and earned $192K/year?"  Granted that conversation ended with "Haha - it'll never happen!"

That is equivalent to 3rd year pay at the airline, assuming you work 15 days a month.  And you’d still have no control over your life (179s, 365s, PCS, RPA, etc).

 

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On 4/21/2018 at 7:26 AM, hindsight2020 said:

AFRC AGR bonus for FY18 is 35K/yr throttable between 1 thru 3 year contracts, no apparent discount for renewal contract versus initial, which is a change from previous years. Also, everybody gets the 35K up to 24 YAS, which was the other big change. ART bonus is 18K/yr with one year minimum to a maximum contract length to 25YAS.

All in all, thanks for the free money Blue, but it's not changing the calculus of those who are intent on getting airline jobs. Once they get the airline job, they'll cash this bonus, but not a day before. Not sure how this changes anything in the AFRC. The TR invol IA are absolutely killing morale and retention down here, fix that instead. There's no pay problem here (well, TRs getting their flight pay still jacked up is a problem), only a QOL one, and its costing them the kitty, just like the regAF.

As to them going to a dedicated career field incentive pay on a year to year float index, to the tune of 6K/mo increase over today's water line? ROFL. You guys crack me up. 

 

 

Any links/ info on the ART bonus? 

Is it separate from the 25% we are getting as a "retention" bonus or is the 18% the permanent raise to the 558 pay tables they have been talking about for 6.69 yrs now?  

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5 hours ago, HeyWatchThis said:

Any links/ info on the ART bonus? 

Is it separate from the 25% we are getting as a "retention" bonus or is the 18% the permanent raise to the 558 pay tables they have been talking about for 6.69 yrs now?  

I dunno. It's part of the AvB FY18 AFRC bonus announcement on myPers, under Tier 2. But it's pretty clear it's a bonus contract, not a permanent raise to the 558 SSR tables. Payable at the anniversary of every full year accomplished (no credit for partial years accomplished) and can be agreed between one and whatever years you want, not to exceed 25YAS. Some other provisions in there I didn't care to read. But it's on mypers. 

 

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On 4/21/2018 at 5:23 PM, hindsight2020 said:

What do you mean "unlike" the airlines? That's not what @LookieRookie posted. He said the brief specifically mentioned pay that's re-assessed EVERY YEAR based on market indices specific to your civilian equivalent

I want zero to do with my hard-pay indexed to airline hiring. Soft pay, knock yourself out, but not hard-pay. That's why I don't support going to the doctor model for a 'pylet'. This skillset is simply not that market resilient in the civilian world. 

But this is all to do about nothing. This proposal has fvck all chance of getting passed by Congress. Stop loss has a higher chance of happening in earnest on FY20 than this pipedream. Either way, we're kind of a captive audience here in the mil side. The only play is to exit stage.

 

I mean that we can get doctors on the economy but we can’t go out and get pilots for the Air Force.  But for some reason the guy we can replace with a phone call gets a market-based and substantially larger bonus amount.  I’m thinking the service needs to prioritize a bit, especially since the cost of aviation ratings quickly approaches the cost of medicine.

Never said I want hard pay linked to the economy. But the bonus (I’m assuming this is what you mean with “soft pay”) should definitely link to the economy. The same logic that’s saying bail for the money and seniority says you want a bonus based on demand for your skill set. The market drying up means the bonus goes away regardless, so why not make it better?

Edited by war007afa

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That is equivalent to 3rd year pay at the airline, assuming you work 15 days a month.  And you’d still have no control over your life (179s, 365s, PCS, RPA, etc).
 

We had the same conversation about how much we could do with an extra $4k per month after taxes. However, is it worth screwing up our plans to separate and have some stability in our lives knowing I would just wind up getting out in 2 years when I get the 365 notification? Absolutely not.

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On 4/21/2018 at 6:26 AM, hindsight2020 said:

AFRC AGR bonus for FY18 is 35K/yr throttable between 1 thru 3 year contracts, no apparent discount for renewal contract versus initial, which is a change from previous years. Also, everybody gets the 35K up to 24 YAS, which was the other big change. ART bonus is 18K/yr with one year minimum to a maximum contract length to 25YAS.

All in all, thanks for the free money Blue, but it's not changing the calculus of those who are intent on getting airline jobs. Once they get the airline job, they'll cash this bonus, but not a day before. Not sure how this changes anything in the AFRC. The TR invol IA are absolutely killing morale and retention down here, fix that instead. There's no pay problem here (well, TRs getting their flight pay still jacked up is a problem), only a QOL one, and its costing them the kitty, just like the regAF.

As to them going to a dedicated career field incentive pay on a year to year float index, to the tune of 6K/mo increase over today's water line? ROFL. You guys crack me up. 

 

 

Any idea if you can stop the FY17 AGR bonus and sign a new FY18 one (more $$$)? 

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11 hours ago, MooseAg03 said:


We had the same conversation about how much we could do with an extra $4k per month after taxes. However, is it worth screwing up our plans to separate and have some stability in our lives knowing I would just wind up getting out in 2 years when I get the 365 notification? Absolutely not.

Agreed.  Maybe I’m just getting old, but the idea of more money to spend...in a place I didn’t choose to live, and getting deposited while I’m away from home for months on end AGAIN, all the while working for narrow minded leadership that doesn’t value my effort, just isn’t worth it.

The fact the airlines offer significantly better stability and also the same, or possibly much higher, salary makes this a no-brainer.

I will say I remember leaving AD and the fear of the unknown.  It took a couple years to realize that yes, I can say NO to things, I can live wherever I want, and my life can be about things other than work.

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23 hours ago, ColoradoAviator said:

6,000 per month x 12 months x 12471 pilots = $897,912,000.  Also know as $900 million or just shy of $1 billion.  No way in hell Congress approves this or even half this amount for more senior folks

The $6k a month is only paid to those after their UPT commitment is up, so the number is less than 12,471 pilots. We could probably find the right number in CH's "USAF is Screwed" thread and the good idea fairy slides.

I'd guess for the price of one F-35 a year it could happen. So I agree it isn't going to happen...

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1 hour ago, AlphaMikeFoxtrot said:


Aren’t doctors already doctors (for the most part) when they get here?

The AF still pays for many AF doctors' med school which incurs a commitment so not that much different than pilots.

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On 4/22/2018 at 6:10 PM, username said:

Any idea if you can stop the FY17 AGR bonus and sign a new FY18 one (more $$$)? 

Image result for u serious gif

 

u fvcking new, right? Cuz that's most fvcking new guy thing to ask I've heard this month. Just letting ya know. Return to Go do not collect $200 for you.

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On 4/22/2018 at 5:35 PM, hindsight2020 said:

I dunno. It's part of the AvB FY18 AFRC bonus announcement on myPers, under Tier 2. But it's pretty clear it's a bonus contract, not a permanent raise to the 558 SSR tables. Payable at the anniversary of every full year accomplished (no credit for partial years accomplished) and can be agreed between one and whatever years you want, not to exceed 25YAS. Some other provisions in there I didn't care to read. But it's on mypers. 

 

Looked it up this morning and for anyone else wondering......It is an ART bonus of $18k that is separate from the current 25% incentive bonus currently in place.  It requires you to be past your UPT commitment and less than 24 YAS.  Supposedly the 25% is going away very soon to be replaced with whatever your locality pay is so in my case, I am getting a ~7% cut from what I am making right now (our locality is 17.65% and I am not eligible for the ART bonus due to my UPT commitment)....I'm surprised they limited the ART bonus to guys outside their UPT commitment because my UPT commitment has 0 impact on whether I stay and ART or go airlines where-as another $18k/yr would entice me to stay around more when it's on top of the permanent raise....

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