COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[Snuggie 30]

15 hours ago, uhhello said:

Rogan had NICHOLAS CHRISTAKIS on the other day again.  Lots of good info.  Distribution isn't so easy due to super refrigeration requirements.  Will be interesting the level of manufacturing/logistic power behind this.  He also isn't seeing a return to "normal" until 2024...............

I sat in on a meeting about distribution, and I don't think it will be as hard as we feared. Many major hospitals have ultra cold storage, and with the goal of getting the vaccine into people as soon as possible a lot of the storage will be of the "just in time" variety. This will be harder in rural areas/less developed countries but the Moderna vaccine just requires a standard freezer. 

I'm with @pawnman , I'm part of the 50% that will get it as soon as it's available to me. My wife is pregnant and I am the most likely vector of the virus into my house, so if I can reduce that probability of people getting sick I'm going to take it. I suspect airlines and other high risk events (i.e. live sports) will require proof of vaccination once it is widely available until the case load drops to almost nothing. I don't see a lot of states making it mandatory due to people's hesitancy so businesses will have to take the lead. 

[slc 15]

Will be interesting to here how the FAA responds to this with regards to the Class 1

[brabus 1,581]

5 hours ago, pawnman said:

I'm surprised that all the people saying "the virus isn't a big deal" and "99% of people who get it survive" are reluctant to get a vaccine.

Why is that surprising? Get an injection of something that was rammed through testing with no longterm data vs. a 1.8% chance of getting covid, and if losing those odds, have a 99.99% of recovery (numbers derived from my state specifically for anyone under 70). Seems fairly logical for anybody who doesn’t have other health concerns (diabetes, etc.) and don’t have any other circumstances, like immune-compromised family member, healthcare worker, etc. to skip it. At least until there is some long term data.

[pawnman 1,696]

42 minutes ago, brabus said:

Why is that surprising? Get an injection of something that was rammed through testing with no longterm data vs. a 1.8% chance of getting covid, and if losing those odds, have a 99.99% of recovery (numbers derived from my state specifically for anyone under 70). Seems fairly logical for anybody who doesn’t have other health concerns (diabetes, etc.) and don’t have any other circumstances, like immune-compromised family member, healthcare worker, etc. to skip it. At least until there is some long term data.

"Rammed through with no testing"...what do you think is in the vaccine?  Do you think they've crafted some kind of wild, unique additives never before used in a vaccine just for this one?  

Vaccines are a pretty well established technology.  The only risky part is using portions of the virus to elicit a response...with that risk being that you actually infect people with Covid instead of preventing them from getting it.

[torqued 671]

4 hours ago, slc said:

Will be interesting to here how the FAA responds to this with regards to the Class 1

Couldn't they just add your vaccination status to the limitations block of the medical cert every year?

I'd imagine we would probably be required to get it just in case we're scheduled into a location that requires proof of vaccination.

[brabus 1,581]

30 minutes ago, pawnman said:

"Rammed through with no testing"...what do you think is in the vaccine?  Do you think they've crafted some kind of wild, unique additives never before used in a vaccine just for this one?

I didn’t say no testing, I said no longterm data. I’m not an anti-vaxxer, have had just about every vaccine under the sun (thanks 3rd world shitholes). Putting something man made into your body that may have currently unknown side affects just because of something you have nearly no chance of dying from...well, it’s pretty logical to take the known 99.99% chance over the unknown. You do you, no judgement from me. Just saying the numbers support the decision to not get it as a rational one. 

[VMFA187 208]

7 hours ago, pawnman said:

 

I'll be first in line for a Covid-19 vaccine if it means seeing my extended family on holidays again, having live sports and concerts, having in-person parties and group events, etc...

 

You can do that without the vaccine. 

[GoodSplash9 25]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

"Rammed through with no testing"...what do you think is in the vaccine?  Do you think they've crafted some kind of wild, unique additives never before used in a vaccine just for this one?  

Vaccines are a pretty well established technology.  The only risky part is using portions of the virus to elicit a response...with that risk being that you actually infect people with Covid instead of preventing them from getting it.

Again, The messenger RNA vaccine technology used by Pfizer and Moderna is brand new...as in never(key word) used in a vaccine previously and never studied for long term effects. Sounds like a lot of people are ignorant of this fact.

They aren’t putting live/attenuated/dead virus in you, they are providing messenger  RNA (genetic code sequences) that provides “instructions” for your own cells/ribosomes to create COVID like proteins that lead to an immune response.

 

https://horizon-magazine.eu/article/five-things-you-need-know-about-mrna-vaccines.html

https://m.jpost.com/health-science/could-an-mrna-vaccine-be-dangerous-in-the-long-term-649253

https://www.bulatlat.com/2020/08/21/hazards-of-the-covid-19-vaccine/

https://oftwominds.cloudhostedresources.com/?ref=https%3A%2F%2Fduckduckgo.com&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oftwominds.com%2Fblognov20%2Fcovid-vaccines11-20.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-vaccine-covid-19-cure-doctor-moderna-novavax-oxford-a9523091.html

[pawnman 1,696]

48 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

You can do that without the vaccine. 

Not where I live.  Maybe the Covid numbers are better where you live.

[17D_guy 894]

1 hour ago, GoodSplash9 said:

Again, The messenger RNA vaccine technology used by Pfizer and Moderna is brand new...as in never(key word) used in a vaccine previously and never studied for long term effects. Sounds like a lot of people are ignorant of this fact.

They aren’t putting live/attenuated/dead virus in you, they are providing messenger  RNA (genetic code sequences) that provides “instructions” for your own cells/ribosomes to create COVID like proteins that lead to an immune response.

 

https://horizon-magazine.eu/article/five-things-you-need-know-about-mrna-vaccines.html

https://m.jpost.com/health-science/could-an-mrna-vaccine-be-dangerous-in-the-long-term-649253

https://www.bulatlat.com/2020/08/21/hazards-of-the-covid-19-vaccine/

https://oftwominds.cloudhostedresources.com/?ref=https%3A%2F%2Fduckduckgo.com&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oftwominds.com%2Fblognov20%2Fcovid-vaccines11-20.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-vaccine-covid-19-cure-doctor-moderna-novavax-oxford-a9523091.html

That's fucking cool, sign me up.

Also, I had a post here that I guess didn't actually post.  But where I'm at, currently our numbers are:

• Percent of all non-ICU Bed Occupied - 58.2%
• Percent of all ICU Beds Occupied - 90.8%
• Percent of Referral Center ICU Beds Occupied - 94.3%

So...not good.  Articles have already started about rationing care, and not allowing anymore transfers in from outlying hospitals AKA where people say it's not bad because their hospital isn't full.

This one stuck out to me though for all the "co-morbidity" folks, for our hospitalizations the percentage with at least 1 pre-existing condition - 49.7%.  4K cases everyday through the weekend so far.  Only thing helping us in Utah is the fact that we're a rather young population state, mostly white, and mostly healthy.  According to our gov't roll-out plan I won't get the vaccine until about next Jul.

[Prozac 662]

I wonder if the polio vaccine would’ve been successful if the internet existed back then. 🤦‍♂️ 

[N730 139]

Again, The messenger RNA vaccine technology used by Pfizer and Moderna is brand new...as in never(key word) used in a vaccine previously and never studied for long term effects. Sounds like a lot of people are ignorant of this fact.
They aren’t putting live/attenuated/dead virus in you, they are providing messenger  RNA (genetic code sequences) that provides “instructions” for your own cells/ribosomes to create COVID like proteins that lead to an immune response.
 
https://horizon-magazine.eu/article/five-things-you-need-know-about-mrna-vaccines.html
https://m.jpost.com/health-science/could-an-mrna-vaccine-be-dangerous-in-the-long-term-649253
https://www.bulatlat.com/2020/08/21/hazards-of-the-covid-19-vaccine/
https://oftwominds.cloudhostedresources.com/?ref=https%3A%2F%2Fduckduckgo.com&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oftwominds.com%2Fblognov20%2Fcovid-vaccines11-20.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-vaccine-covid-19-cure-doctor-moderna-novavax-oxford-a9523091.html

What about AstraZenica and Johnson and Johnson?

I was under the understanding that their vaccine was more traditional. If im mistaken, please correct me!

I'd think since the Moderna vaccine only requires basic refrigeration, it would be the one given in harder to reach areas around the world and we would be more likely to get the AstraZenica or J&J vaccines that requires the extremely cold temperatures.

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[17D_guy 894]

26 minutes ago, Prozac said:

I wonder if the polio vaccine would’ve been successful if the internet existed back then. 🤦‍♂️ 

I don't know, would the leader of the free world have called it a hoax of the opposition, not a big deal and under control while s/he encouraged people to disregard their local leaders while suggesting injecting "disinfectant" and internal sunlight until it's gone this summer, winter, next year when there's a vaccine?

Salk said he wouldn't patent the vaccine because it would be like "patenting the Sun."  That's how much fear polio caused.  We've been coddled in our lifetimes with no serious epidemics in our country.

[torqued 671]

7 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

I don't know, would the leader of the free world have called it a hoax of the opposition, not a big deal and under control while s/he encouraged people to disregard their local leaders while suggesting injecting "disinfectant" and internal sunlight until it's gone this summer, winter, next year when there's a vaccine?

Salk said he wouldn't patent the vaccine because it would be like "patenting the Sun."  That's how much fear polio caused.  We've been coddled in our lifetimes with no serious epidemics in our country.

 

 It's definitely not a hoax. People are actually dying. I had a family member who said she wished she knew exactly what the odds are she would die if she caught COVID. Sort of a difficult number to pin down.

I went to the CDC website. The "Current Best Estimate" data is a little old, 10th of September, but numbers the CDC gives health professionals for planning and preparedness are as follows. I guess it depends on your age, but everyone carries some risk of dying from an infection.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

Edited November 23, 2020 by torqued

[brabus 1,581]

8 hours ago, Prozac said:

I wonder if the polio vaccine would’ve been successful if the internet existed back then. 🤦‍♂️ 

Polio had a yearly average 11.5% death rate pre-vaccine. From the time Salk created the first version of the vaccine, 5 years elapsed of study, tests, and clinical trials, before there was a nationwide drive for inoculation.

Recap: Polio was significantly more deadly and 5 years of clinical testing/data prior to mass release. Apples and oranges.

[M2 1,902]

[M2 1,902]

[pawnman 1,696]

42 minutes ago, M2 said:

The mask is to protect others from you.  Which is why you wear it when you walk past all the tables of people not wearing masks.

[celtic020 57]

The anti-vaxers not wanting to get vaccinated for COVID is the ending 2020 deserves.   Bravo.  

[17D_guy 894]

2 hours ago, M2 said:

How about one about seat belts or drunk driving?

[Prozac 662]

2 hours ago, M2 said:

Sure they have. Many state governments have banned smoking in public spaces because it’s been proven that one person’s second hand smoke can harm a non smoker. 

[Snuggie 30]

2 hours ago, M2 said:

This might be the biggest issue with the decentralized response to COVID in the US. There is no real safe way to eat in a restaurant indoors: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/11/can-you-get-coronavirus-inside-restaurant/617151/

But closing restaurants is hard, and would require major government intervention to keep them from going bankrupt, which as a country we have proven we won't do. So we are doing "virus theater" and pretending it's ok because the tables are slightly farther apart. 

I haven't eaten inside a restaurant since mid-March, and don't plan on it until my family is fully vaccinated. 

 

[VMFA187 208]

13 hours ago, pawnman said:

Not where I live.  Maybe the Covid numbers are better where you live.

No, the Governor of California have forbid people from gathering for Thanksgiving - Doesn't mean he has the legal power to do so. As such, it won't prevent me and my family from going to Big Bear this week with three of my closest friends and their families to eat, drink, and be merry. 

We're also relatively young, fit, and healthy. People have to make their own choices based on the lives they've lived. We're not close to any elderly family members so it's a calculated risk, just like each time you go fly a mission, drive to work, or any other activity where potential harm can occur. 

[Day Man 834]

1 hour ago, Snuggie said:

So we are doing "virus theater" and pretending it's ok because the tables are slightly farther apart. 

I went to a restaurant last month that required you to keep your mask on at your table until you had been served a drink...one of the more nonsensical rules I have experienced.

[brabus 1,581]

2 hours ago, Snuggie said:

There is no real safe way to eat in a restaurant indoors: 

There hasn’t been your entire life, if we’re defining unsafe as risk of catching respiratory viruses in a public setting exists. The flu, pneumonia, etc. didn’t make people not want to eat out, yet here we are pretending 12% positive rate and 99.86% survival rates (US under 70) are Ebola reincarnated. For comparison, last year the positive test rate for the flu was 52% and death rate was ~ .02% for under 70. So quite literally, the risk to your average, healthy person under 70 is .12% higher than the flu. Clearly risk goes exponentially up or down to age groups above and below the 70 line. 
 

People spent 2018 cool with a 52% chance of catching a virus followed by a 99.98% survival rate, yet are incredibly concerned in 2020 over a 12% chance of catching a different virus followed by a 99.86% survival rate. I get it this doesn’t encompass specific scenarios like elderly family with health issues, the individuals with compromised immune systems, healthcare workers in close proximity to high risk patients, etc. But, it does encapsulate the vast majority of our demographics.