Jump to content
Baseops Forums
MDDieselPilot

Commanders are dropping like flies this year

Recommended Posts

So many variations on the story of what happened. It’s almost like someone should have called an uninterested third party to come in and conduct an independent investigation. 
 

Almost like there was..... Met a couple Cols from PACAF walking around for a while doing on investigation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Merle Dixon said:

Flight naming ceremony. Not a roll call. T-38 flights do this now, naming ceremony in the flight room once all of the students are post-solo. Many flight rooms have a dry erase white board, or 2, full of potential call signs for the students. One of the potential callsigns, on the white board, not the call sign given at the ceremony, was “Can’t Understand Normal Taxi.” 

I do not know how the “Can’t Understand...” written on the white board came to the attention of the food chain. Does anyone else know for sure? Did a GOs wife see it?

Good info. Were you there? The rumor mill that Air Force pilots perpetuate on this kind of stuff puts the spouses’ club to shame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Merle Dixon said:

Flight naming ceremony. Not a roll call. T-38 flights do this now, naming ceremony in the flight room once all of the students are post-solo. Many flight rooms have a dry erase white board, or 2, full of potential call signs for the students. One of the potential callsigns, on the white board, not the call sign given at the ceremony, was “Can’t Understand Normal Taxi.” 

I do not know how the “Can’t Understand...” written on the white board came to the attention of the food chain. Does anyone else know for sure? Did a GOs wife see it?

Does everyone get a trophy too for soloing a T-38?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Homestar said:

So many variations on the story of what happened. It’s almost like someone should have called an uninterested third party to come in and conduct an independent investigation. 

 

I'm a good candidate, cause I honestly couldn't give any less of a shit...

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Tulsa said:

Why does this always happen at Laughlin?  It seems every 6-9 months there is a failure of leadership or some sort of scandal from Del Rio.  Is it the proximity to Randolph and the big blue flame of AETC ineptitude or the lack of shit to do in BFE Texas?  We did a flight naming in T-38s when I went through UPT in '99, which was incredibly tame but taught us the ropes before RTU.  If the above is true, it seems like a complete loss of SA for the FLT/CC who would let the naming board be posted in public, let alone push that name in front of the MAJCOM commander (if true).  In my experience, we kept this in the vault to avoid such a possible "misunderstandings".  If this is all it takes for a WG/CC and OG/CC to be sacked these days, there had to be more going on than is being broadcast to the outside.  If not, then pull chocks and launch for survival my friends.

My favorite part is we spend all our time on here complaining about piss-poor leadership.  Then whenever leadership is removed for cause, there's always a brigade of people calling the guy who got removed "the best commander I ever worked for" and saying "it wasn't the commander, it was his subordinates". 

I wonder which leadership the board actually thinks deserves to be removed.  Because if this is the kind of environment guys are cheering for...holy hell, what's left to remove someone that the salty aviators of BODN would actually agree with?

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, pawnman said:

My favorite part is we spend all our time on here complaining about piss-poor leadership.  Then whenever leadership is removed for cause, there's always a brigade of people calling the guy who got removed "the best commander I ever worked for" and saying "it wasn't the commander, it was his subordinates". 

I wonder which leadership the board actually thinks deserves to be removed.  Because if this is the kind of environment guys are cheering for...holy hell, what's left to remove someone that the salty aviators of BODN would actually agree with?

The problem is the AF is firing commanders for the wrong reasons.  Something written on a flight room white board gets 4 guys fired.  That is a huge overreaction, unless there’s more to the story.

Meanwhile, the AF is riddled with “leaders” who screw their people over time and time again in an effort to push their own careers forward.  Commanders aren’t fired for making their people miserable and for contributing to the AF’s retention problem. They are fired for not stopping some random dumbass from writing something stupid in some flight room.

Why would I bet my career on the AF when it can be ruined for something like that?

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The callsign issue was a smaller part of something bigger. No one was fired over that one thing, if you read my previous posts there is more to the story which will be release after the UCMJ actions take place and the CDI results are released.

I’m saying this because a lot of people keep focusing on the one issue thinking that way they were fired. It’s not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Bode said:


Almost like there was..... Met a couple Cols from PACAF walking around for a while doing on investigation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was being sarcastic. Of course there was an investigation. And I trust that they did a complete investigation that put all the pieces together as good as they could. And this resulted in four firings. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, flyusaf83 said:

That is a huge overreaction, unless there’s more to the story  

I ran a CDI in a group in my current wing. Small potatoes compared to what went down at Laughlin. My report dismissed most allegations and substantiated just one. My report, including evidence, testimony, and such was over 200 pages long. 

Theres always more to the story. It’s contained in the CDI and my guess is that this report is pretty massive and detailed. And we’ll never know because we’re not entitled to the report. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Homestar said:

I ran a CDI in a group in my current wing. Small potatoes compared to what went down at Laughlin. My report dismissed most allegations and substantiated just one. My report, including evidence, testimony, and such was over 200 pages long. 

Theres always more to the story. It’s contained in the CDI and my guess is that this report is pretty massive and detailed. And we’ll never know because we’re not entitled to the report. 

Did you get training to do all that?  I wonder about the dude who gets tagged to do these reports how they're prepared for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/3/2018 at 12:33 PM, Sprkt69 said:

Does everyone get a trophy too for soloing a T-38?

Yes because you have to get your own ATIS, which is super hard.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 17D_guy said:

Did you get training to do all that?  I wonder about the dude who gets tagged to do these reports how they're prepared for it.

Worked with someone who had to do a CDI.  Basically, a 20-30 minute brief with the legal office, then they turn you loose to collect evidence.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 17D_guy said:

Did you get training to do all that?  I wonder about the dude who gets tagged to do these reports how they're prepared for it.

Sure! My Legal Advisor emailed me a copy of the CDI Guide and showed me the Manual for courts Martial (available online by the way). He was there to answer any questions I had and to give guidance but for the rest I had to “self-learn myself”. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Worked with someone who had to do a CDI.  Basically, a 20-30 minute brief with the legal office, then they turn you loose to collect evidence.  

Shack. I had to do a CDI and my report was 30 pages. My unit was a tenant to the Wing. I told my CC that the JAG office and GP/CC didn't account for people who have mental health problems. They shouldn't be interviewed unless a trained psychologist is present. The AF doesn't know what they are doing when dealing with people. I annotated this in my final report. "Personnel who have to see mental health or are currently on medications as a result should not be interviewed."

Edited by HarleyQuinn
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Worked with someone who had to do a CDI.  Basically, a 20-30 minute brief with the legal office, then they turn you loose to collect evidence.  

And then careers are ruined by these investigations?

Sounds like a great system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depends. CDIs report facts and investigators publish their conclusions. Commanders make career decisions if appropriate. In my CDI I spent a month investigating alleged UCMJ violations and the WG/CC decided on a punishment based on the facts in the report. The investigator usually doesn’t make recommendations unless requested by the commander. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, flyusaf83 said:

And then careers are ruined by these investigations?

Sounds like a great system.

Works like a champ!:beer:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

Did you get training to do all that?  I wonder about the dude who gets tagged to do these reports how they're prepared for it.

I've been tagged to do one.  I got a 10 minute powerpoint presentation and then a 15 minute discussion with the JAG.  I did get some support and advice during the investigation, so that helped.

Edited by guineapigfury
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Homestar said:

Depends. CDIs report facts and investigators publish their conclusions. Commanders make career decisions if appropriate. In my CDI I spent a month investigating alleged UCMJ violations and the WG/CC decided on a punishment based on the facts in the report. The investigator usually doesn’t make recommendations unless requested by the commander. 

^checks

They give you the guide and you sit down with legal, EO, whoever else that’s applicable. You work close with those folks to make sure you’re staying in your lane and using the governing AFIs specific to what you’re dealing with. They review your report before you ever present it to the cc. The cc then decides what to do or not to do. End of the day you’re gathering facts and presenting it. It’s not that cosmic and it’s not something done recklessly. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/4/2018 at 4:20 PM, Homestar said:

Sure! My Legal Advisor emailed me a copy of the CDI Guide and showed me the Manual for courts Martial (available online by the way). He was there to answer any questions I had and to give guidance but for the rest I had to “self-learn myself”. 

I had to meet with the cops on mine, you get to learn alot about what you never want to learn.  Oh, and most people aren't completely dishonest, just a little bit.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder how much of these supposed allegations were millennials butt hurt over things that didn't even come close to matching a Kunsan Tuesday night.  "I didn't feel safe" translates to, "some guys had a couple shots AND a beer, and the CC didn't send them straight to ADAP - leadership failure!" This whole thing still smells like a witch hunt driven by PC leadership.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wonder how much of these supposed allegations were millennials butt hurt over things that didn't even come close to matching a Kunsan Tuesday night.  "I didn't feel safe" translates to, "some guys had a couple shots AND a beer, and the CC didn't send them straight to ADAP - leadership failure!" This whole thing still smells like a witch hunt driven by PC leadership.


Not even close. It’s not a witch hunt, there were some legit issues which leadership believed they were handling properly. The whole concept of making sure your boss is aware of things going on comes into play as well. It’s never a good thing when a General calls a Col about something going on in his organization and he doesn’t know anything about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×