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Was at a legacy airline flight training center earlier this year.  EVERY current and retired pilot there was excited to have us and all exclaimed that they need good pilots; hurry up, get out of the AF and apply.   We need you.

On the flip side, exactly ZERO squadron, group, wing commander in the last year or two has asked what they could do get experienced pilots to stay.  None has stated that they need good pilots.  You'd think that someone at a local level would make at least a half assed effort to see what they can do to get guys to stay.

It's been very clear that the AF organization does not value people who know what they're doing.  At squadron and wing levels, sure.  At the end of the day, as long as the billets are filled, the machine continues to function.  Good enough, as long as the quarterly awards are turned in on time.

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I'm deployed and busy. I still check the forum to see what's new. I'm tired of reading posts from whiners who continue to bitch and moan about not being required to get an AAD until Col. Drama quee

Just as I would never trivialize the sacrifices or challenges our airmen faced in Vietnam or WWII, I would expect our officers to not trivialize the sacrifices and challenges our military has faced si

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The part that boggles my mind isn't about that they don't care about me or pilots, it's that they don't recognize the benefits of experienced people across AFSCs.   Experience saves time, money, broken stuff, lives, increases efficiency, productivity, less people to train, etc.  All of that stuff makes peoples jobs easier, and the metrics better (since that's what they care about anyways).  A pilot with 10 years experience is invaluable.  A NCO who does more than sit behind a desk and is an expert in their field is invaluable.   We are missing a lot of technical experts across the board. 

How many times do we go around base only to encounter the airman who has no clue what they're doing?  It's not the fault of that 20 year old.  It's the fault of the NCO hiding behind the computer monitor behind them on facebook.  It's a failure of the officers who care more about the promotion factory and how they can one day be the foreman.   I truly believe that the current culture of the af is primarily about getting people to get that sweet 20 year pension and free healthcare than being an efficient military force.

For all the value that the af places on education, and sending people to get advanced degrees, PME and the like, we have of a lot of people who are quite naive.

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4 hours ago, snoopyeast said:

Was at a legacy airline flight training center earlier this year.  EVERY current and retired pilot there was excited to have us and all exclaimed that they need good pilots; hurry up, get out of the AF and apply.   We need you.

On the flip side, exactly ZERO squadron, group, wing commander in the last year or two has asked what they could do get experienced pilots to stay.  None has stated that they need good pilots.  You'd think that someone at a local level would make at least a half assed effort to see what they can do to get guys to stay.

It's been very clear that the AF organization does not value people who know what they're doing.  At squadron and wing levels, sure.  At the end of the day, as long as the billets are filled, the machine continues to function.  Good enough, as long as the quarterly awards are turned in on time.

Let me play Devil's Advocate for a second, and this is coming from someone who is counting down the days to click submit on airline apps...

Most pilots are smart.  We know leaders at the Sq/Gp/Wg level have pretty much zero power to affect any kind of change with the mammoth pilot retention problem ahead of them, even on an individual basis.  Let's say, hypothetically, your Wg/CC held a pilot retention forum where everyone was allowed to air their grievances and voice their opinion with no retribution.  This is how it would probably go...

Wg/CC:  What can I do to keep you guys in?

Maj #1:  More money!

Wg/CC:  Well, now, you know I'd give you more money if I could, but I don't have that kind of power at my level.  Talk to your Congressman! :laughs nervously:

Maj #2:  Less queep, more flying!

Wg/CC:  I hear you there!  But we've already cut X amount of programs.  Things like OPRs, decs, etc will never go away.  There are things that are mandated by AFIs that we just can't stop doing.  On top of that, leaders at the HAF/MAJCOM level keep dropping extra Vol 1 and training requirements that they feel are instrumental to our readiness against a near peer threat.

Maj #3:  More time with family!

Wg/CC:  I feel you bro!  I haven't banged my wife in months and forgot most of my kids' names.  But we're still fighting a war against terror and that won't be going away.  And don't forget that just last month we hauled a small percentage of our Army to the border to fight those Mexicans coming from South America.  Point being, there will always be a commitment both home and abroad. 

It would be a constant deflection exercise.  They know they're fucked.  We know they're fucked.  But we all just continue to whistle and stroll past the burning wreckage.  Plus, I'm not sure how it is in your community, but in mine, people are holding their cards close to their chest until the last minute then BAM.  It's hard for leadership to reach out if they don't know your mind is already made up.

 

TLDR:  We're fucked

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  Plus, I'm not sure how it is in your community, but in mine, people are holding their cards close to their chest until the last minute then BAM.  It's hard for leadership to reach out if they don't know your mind is already made up.

A symptom of the deep-seated trust issues in the AF.  

 

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See, that's the beauty of being a part timer. The military is far more attractive as a side piece than as a wife.

When you get tired of the Air Force's shit, just ghost it for a few weeks until a nice TDY drops down.

Edited by joe1234
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4 hours ago, joe1234 said:

See, that's the beauty of being a part timer. The military is far more attractive as a side piece than as a wife.

When you get tired of the Air Force's shit, just ghost it for a few weeks until a nice TDY drops down.

Until you get burned a few times by having the TDY cancelled last minute by the Guard Bureau (after you've taken military leave) due to lack of funds, cancelled by the Sq due lack of interest from other crewmembers, or cancelled by MX for broken aircraft. Then you sit around the Sq all week trying to recoup a fraction of your lost airline pay by logging doubles doing CBTs and OPRs if the network is up. I sure hope I don't sound bitter.

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12 hours ago, snoopyeast said:

For all the value that the af places on education, and sending people to get advanced degrees, PME and the like, we have of a lot of people who are quite naive.

Shack.  We are the most educated force in the history of the world, yet we’re losing wars while experienced people walk out in disgust.  Our entire effort at education has failed us: every O5 has a masters yet we do the dumbest shit, repeatedly, and value the inexperienced BTZ over the experienced APZ.  

We've created a military force where combat experience has no value.  Career success can be had without combat success, and combat success doesn’t necessarily equate to career success.  WTF are we doing?

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6 hours ago, joe1234 said:

See, that's the beauty of being a part timer. The military is far more attractive as a side piece than as a wife.

When you get tired of the Air Force's shit, just ghost it for a few weeks until a nice TDY drops down.

Very well said!!

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56 minutes ago, torqued said:

Until you get burned a few times by having the TDY cancelled last minute by the Guard Bureau (after you've taken military leave) due to lack of funds, cancelled by the Sq due lack of interest from other crewmembers, or cancelled by MX for broken aircraft. Then you sit around the Sq all week trying to recoup a fraction of your lost airline pay by logging doubles doing CBTs and OPRs if the network is up. I sure hope I don't sound bitter.

Happens to me all the time!! And that's the beauty of it.  If the TDY CX, do a TP (or 2) to justify that MLOA.  Now you can stay at home (and here's a novel idea, go bang the wife!!).  When you hit a certain age, you really have to ask the question, do I really NEED all that money.  The answer is probably no.  

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9 hours ago, BADFNZ said:

good stuff

You're absolutely correct.   That's why this situation is amusing.  A bunch of high ranking officers saying "my hands are tied" for problems created by the organization they are leaders in.  It's better to ignore the problem and hope it goes away.  Bunch of smart people we have running the joint.

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9 hours ago, Champ Kind said:

A symptom of the deep-seated trust issues in the AF.  

 

A pilot mentioned to the SQ/CC during a mentoring secession about an upcoming wing staff job that he wasn't sure what his 5 year AF plan was.   No kidding 2 days later, that guy had a 6 month non-flying assignment dropped on him, and no wing job following.   You had better bet that every pilot in the wing, from the newest Lt to crusty Major know about that one.  

Edited by snoopyeast
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14 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

 repeatedly, and value the inexperienced BTZ over the experienced APZ. 

I've got my grievances with the HPO/Shiny Penny method of leadership selection we utilize.  But there's got to be a difference between the APZ's you guys work with and the ones I do...because the ones I do are awful. 

Maj's that can't communicate, can't lead, can't even manage, extremely risk averse and should just dress up in a Blue Falcon costume.  Never mind failing training requirements, and still demanding to be "first out the door."

Perhaps I'm just institutionalized since I hit 20 early next year.

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I've got my grievances with the HPO/Shiny Penny method of leadership selection we utilize.  But there's got to be a difference between the APZ's you guys work with and the ones I do...because the ones I do are awful. 

Maj's that can't communicate, can't lead, can't even manage, extremely risk averse and should just dress up in a Blue Falcon costume.  Never mind failing training requirements, and still demanding to be "first out the door."
Perhaps I'm just institutionalized since I hit 20 early next year.


Selection bias. We like to bitch about the bro who got passed over who’s a really good/smart:hard working dude and hold that example up as indicative of everyone who got passed over. I know a handful who fit the criteria-shocked that they didn’t make it.

Then there are the retards who suck in the jet and at office work. Those are the ones who should have been passed over, but there’s a delta between the number of tards and the total number who get passed over. Those are the stories that are much more dramatic to complain about.
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11 minutes ago, 17D_guy said:

I've got my grievances with the HPO/Shiny Penny method of leadership selection we utilize.  But there's got to be a difference between the APZ's you guys work with and the ones I do...because the ones I do are awful. 

Maj's that can't communicate, can't lead, can't even manage, extremely risk averse and should just dress up in a Blue Falcon costume.  Never mind failing training requirements, and still demanding to be "first out the door."

Perhaps I'm just institutionalized since I hit 20 early next year.

Most APZ pilots tend to have flown their entire career and are very good at it.  They've given the Heisman to queep, and paid the price in promotion rates.  They do most of the flying, teaching, and mentoring of our next generation of pilots.  In the MAF world, the guys who are BTZ got that way by doing everything but aircraft related duties, and typically have little credibility flying.  Most I've known want to fly more, but the AF won't let them do it often enough to stay good. 

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9 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

I've got my grievances with the HPO/Shiny Penny method of leadership selection we utilize.  But there's got to be a difference between the APZ's you guys work with and the ones I do...because the ones I do are awful. 

Maj's that can't communicate, can't lead, can't even manage, extremely risk averse and should just dress up in a Blue Falcon costume.  Never mind failing training requirements, and still demanding to be "first out the door."

Perhaps I'm just institutionalized since I hit 20 early next year.

We've got a few that way, but we also have a few who were just legitimately screwed over, like the guy passed over on his O-5 board with a DP.

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