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COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)


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Just now, Pooter said:

One of the few joys of this pandemic has been watching the pro mandate/lockdown far left bicker with the staunch anti-vax far right while not a single one of them realizes they're two sides of the same coin.. Both wildly misinterpreting the data to arrive at garbage conclusions. 

Also nice to see people not engage in any amount of data analysis and instead sit on the sidelines with a sense of smug superiority.

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On 12/22/2021 at 1:30 PM, ViperMan said:

Why is that important? Because it adds to my suspicion that this is all theater. And every day that passes, I become more and more convinced that it actually is. We locked down when this thing first began, and at its absolute worst, we were seeing ~250K/ cases per day with ~3-4K deaths per day (if you subscribe to the notion that COVID was the sole cause of death, which I do not; https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html). Now, you're telling me that this thing is going to imminently peak not only to that level, but at a rate (mathematical certainty) that will top it by 4X!!! Are you kidding me?

We just got to 2X on confirmed cases. Probably 1.0M a day if you include unreported literally now. I’m not kidding you!

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-tally-us-counts-more-than-500000-new-covid-cases-in-a-day-lifting-the-daily-average-to-a-near-1-year-high-2021-12-28

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5 minutes ago, Negatory said:

Also nice to see people not engage in any amount of data analysis and instead sit on the sidelines with a sense of smug superiority.

You're mistaking the sidelines for the moderate center, which strangely enough is where all the data points to.  

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4 hours ago, Negatory said:

We just got to 2X on confirmed cases. Probably 1.0M a day if you include unreported literally now. I’m not kidding you!

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-tally-us-counts-more-than-500000-new-covid-cases-in-a-day-lifting-the-daily-average-to-a-near-1-year-high-2021-12-28

I think this is a good thing, the sooner we can get to 1M+ per day while deaths remain below 2k per day or decrease even further the sooner we can realize COVID for what’s it’s become…the common cold, and within 9 months everyone will have had it.  Before anyone tries to get on their high horse about “PEoPle ArE DyInG ItS NoT A CoLd”….colds and their symptoms (aka coronaviruses) have been killing people for millennia

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5 hours ago, Negatory said:

We just got to 2X on confirmed cases. Probably 1.0M a day if you include unreported literally now. I’m not kidding you!

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-tally-us-counts-more-than-500000-new-covid-cases-in-a-day-lifting-the-daily-average-to-a-near-1-year-high-2021-12-28

I'm not surprised by this. Omicron is like, what, 70x as infectious as the other variants? And it can break through multiple shots? My point - which I include again below for your convenience, so you can read it again - is to say that I don't believe the HYPE around this next variant.

On 12/22/2021 at 2:30 PM, ViperMan said:

And all we get from #1 is a statement that if your vaxxed, you can go on vacation, but if you're not, you're gonna die??? Mkay. I don't believe you. I don't believe that these people actually think we're heading to a space where 12,000-16,000 people are going to be dying every day. I don't believe they believe that. If they did, they'd be taking different steps. It's fear porn in order to justify expediency that there is otherwise no appetite for. If they do believe that, and that's all they're doing, then they're even more cynical people than I already think.

All I'm saying is that they are either:

  1. Lying about what they think will happen re: the death rate.
  2. So cynical that they are right about impending doom and don't have the balls to act, or just don't care.

It's one of those two things. Neither one is complimentary to the administration. Now, if they suspect that literally a 100,000 people will be dying every week with this thing and they don't lock down? Hmmm...I'll be looking for LOTS of resignations from the people in charge of this thing. They have the power, and if they don't exercise if for political reasons, then they are done. More than they already are.

Thus far, Omicron has not been the scourge it could have been. It's highly infections, but not very virulent.

14 people have died in the UK (https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-says-14-deaths-129-hospitalised-by-omicron-2021-12-22/) as of a couple days ago, and more will.

Here are some unavoidable facts:

  1. This bug is EXTRAORDINARILY transmissible. Regardless of vax status.
  2. This bug is highly likely to infect you. Regardless of vax status.
  3. If you get it, you are highly likely to spread it. Regardless of vax status.
  4. If you wear a mask, you're probably doing something, but not much to help avoid spreading or catching it.

So, with that established, what is the point of all the panic? What is the point of mandates? What is the point of calling it a "pandemic of the unvaccinated"? How about we just let people be educated about the disease and their options, and call it a day? That's my vote.

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5 minutes ago, ViperMan said:

All I'm saying is that they are either:

  1. Lying about what they think will happen re: the death rate.
  2. So cynical that they are right about impending doom and don't have the balls to act, or just don't care.

It's one of those two things. 

Or, and here me out here, it COULD be that they are still unsure about how dangerous the variant is (yes we have preliminary data that symptoms are mild, but it takes time for real, actionable data to be verified) and are simply playing it safe until we know for sure that it is less severe. Why do we have to go straight to conspiracy when there is a far more likely, simple explanation? 

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6 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Or, and here me out here, it COULD be that they are still unsure about how dangerous the variant is (yes we have preliminary data that symptoms are mild, but it takes time for real, actionable data to be verified) and are simply playing it safe until we know for sure that it is less severe. Why do we have to go straight to conspiracy when there is a far more likely, simple explanation? 

Mmmmmm...I think they know, because it's what the preliminary data shows. If it was 70x as infectious with the same death rate (or worse, possibly) do you think they'd be justified in not locking down again? Would they be justified to allow college football to continue? How about in-restaurant dining? Seems to me that it was all well and good to lock down last year, but now for some reason it's unacceptable. Why is it different now? Why aren't we locking down? Not why won't we lock down in a week or two, why haven't we already locked down? Ask yourself that.

Edited by ViperMan
wrong word
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35 minutes ago, ViperMan said:

Mmmmmm...I think they know, because it's what the preliminary data shows. If it was 70x as infectious with the same death rate (or worse, possibly) do you think they'd be justified in not locking down again? Would they be justified to allow college football to continue? How about in-restaurant dining? Seems to me that it was all well and good to lock down last year, but now for some reason it's unacceptable. Why is it different now? Why aren't we locking down? Not why won't we lock down in a week or two, why haven't we already locked down? Ask yourself that.

Again, they’re being cautious by reacting but not overreacting until they have real data. Remember, the simplest answer is very often the correct one. Put yourself in the shoes of the policy maker where the whole country is on edge waiting for your decision & half of them are likely to lambast whatever policy you decide on. Now add in the fact that you might want to be re-elected someday and it’s really not that hard to understand where this (or any) administration is coming from. 

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6 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Again, they’re being cautious by reacting but not overreacting until they have real data. Remember, the simplest answer is very often the correct one. Put yourself in the shoes of the policy maker where the whole country is on edge waiting for your decision & half of them are likely to lambast whatever policy you decide on. Now add in the fact that you might want to be re-elected someday and it’s really not that hard to understand where this (or any) administration is coming from. 

So in-restaurant dining, football games, and the like are all ok with you then? Football playoffs are all good? If so, what is the big deal then and what is this conversation even about anymore? I'm just so confused at the apparent inconsistency between what we have seen thus far, and what the prediction is, and the difference between the two.

I'm not an idiot, and I just can't reconcile it. Also, I'm not predisposed to giving these people the benefit of the doubt anymore just playing my violin and being polite to all the other people who seem content to just go down with the ship.

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I think there’s a realization, a political realization, that there is only so much people will put up with. If I had to hazard a WAG it would be that the public health officials are urging more stringent measures than the current administration is willing to implement. This decision may be based on political expediency, considerations of second and third order effects of strict lockdowns, or most likely a combination of the above. In any case, it seems to me that the government is acting in an entirely expected way, which is to say they are taking data from public health, political, cultural, and economic sources and attempting to consider all of the above when creating policy. 

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“Newly updated guidelines” is code for “we were wrong and we were putting out incorrect information”

 

case and point why it’s disgusting that the left and some of you in here have been cheering censorship of “bad data”. GFYS

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@Sim As riveting as trump campaign copypasta is, what exactly would he have done differently to prevent the deaths numbers seen over the course of 2021?

What exactly does dick measuring death numbers between trump and Biden accomplish? They had different variants to deal with and the disease wasn't even close to endemic during trump's term.  

In my view the only thing the trump admin did right was funneling money to big pharma to quickly develop and roll out a vaccine.  Other than that his public health messaging was a complete horse abortion.

Bottom line, it's easy to sling shit once you're not in charge anymore. But highly I doubt if we had another year of trump that we'd be in any different of a place than we are now. Republican and Democrat administrations have both shown they are utterly incapable of controlling this pandemic in any way. 

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12 minutes ago, Pooter said:

@Sim As riveting as trump campaign copypasta is, what exactly would he have done differently to prevent the deaths numbers seen over the course of 2021?

What exactly does dick measuring death numbers between trump and Biden accomplish? They had different variants to deal with and the disease wasn't even close to endemic during trump's term.  

In my view the only thing the trump admin did right was funneling money to big pharma to quickly develop and roll out a vaccine.  Other than that his public health messaging was a complete horse abortion.

Bottom line, it's easy to sling shit once you're not in charge anymore. But highly I doubt if we had another year of trump that we'd be in any different of a place than we are now. Republican and Democrat administrations have both shown they are utterly incapable of controlling this pandemic in any way. 

If neither can control it, why mandate things (i.e. isolation and inthat can hurt people's health/careers/lives? Why control people and instead let people control themselves if it makes little to no difference? Is not freer choice better than lessor, fewer choice(s)?

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27 minutes ago, Swizzle said:

If neither can control it, why mandate things (i.e. isolation and inthat can hurt people's health/careers/lives? Why control people and instead let people control themselves if it makes little to no difference? Is not freer choice better than lessor, fewer choice(s)?

Absolutely agree. But the wall of text sim so graciously provided us implies throughout that trump could have controlled the virus better.  Which is abject nonsense. 

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39 minutes ago, Pooter said:

what exactly would he have done differently to prevent the deaths numbers seen over the course of 2021?

Zelenko protocol pills available in every store for anyone to buy. Just this would save at least 80% (IMHO 99%)  of deaths and keep hospitals from being overwhelmed. This information was available a year ago and ignored. 

 

https://faculty.utrgv.edu/eleftherios.gkioulekas/zelenko/ZelenkoProtocol.pdf

But USG do not suggest out patient treatments of any kind. They also ignore science that natural immunity exist. 

....FJB! (and FDT too) 

 

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1 hour ago, BashiChuni said:

“Newly updated guidelines” is code for “we were wrong and we were putting out incorrect information”

 

case and point why it’s disgusting that the left and some of you in here have been cheering censorship of “bad data”. GFYS

The foundation of the scientific method is that nothing, including the fundamental laws of science, are immune to inquiry.  Ideas only become more elevated and accepted after passing through rigorous skepticism; strong skepticism was celebrated as it is the essential conduit to bring us nearer to absolute truths .  Unfortunately, what we've seen is anything but that.

The highly visible and open inquiry into what C19 is and how to fight it has left scientific community with lots of egg on its face.  In lieu of exploring legitimate probes, anything that dared to question the core narrative was labeled as "dangerous," cast aside as a wacko conspiracy theory, and subsequently scrubbed from the public forums.  Scientists cozied up to politics instead of remaining the separate and unbiased sources they claim to be.  Instead of being agile and adaptive, this new rigid path failed to respond quickly and appropriately.  The crux of this all is that this deviation from the fundamental ideals of the scientific method has only proven how essential it is to keep to it in the first place.  The hubris of the community and it's complete reluctance to appropriately debrief and self-correct greatly exasperated the failures we saw in our responses.  What we are seeing now is that scientists are finally beginning to look into theories that were brought up (and quickly disregarded) over a year ago that could have provided invaluable information into appropriate policy construction.  It's impossible to know what kind of impact this would have made, but I fail to see how the availability of more correct information could lead to worse outcomes.

Whenever we get on the backside of this, the public trust in the scientific community has been significantly damaged and it will take some time to gain it back.  But, what do I know, maybe there's some new science they're teaching since I finished grad school. 

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16 minutes ago, Sim said:

Zelenko protocol pills available in every store for anyone to buy. Just this would save at least 80% (IMHO 99%)  of deaths and keep hospitals from being overwhelmed. This information was available a year ago and ignored. 

 

https://faculty.utrgv.edu/eleftherios.gkioulekas/zelenko/ZelenkoProtocol.pdf

But USG do not suggest out patient treatments of any kind. They also ignore science that natural immunity exist. 

....FJB! (and FDT too) 

 

Your attachment says these protocol recommendations existed in June of 2020. By my count that leaves 7 months of trump presidency to boost manufacturing and distribution of these miracle pills. So why didn't he? They created and distributed a vaccine in a year, shouldn't distributing a cocktail of existing medications be a much easier lift?  It's almost like it's easy to sling crap about what you would've done with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. 
 

Oh and maybe just maybe people would have taken these therapeutics more seriously at the time if trump's communications hadn't been the clown show of the century. 

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10 minutes ago, Pooter said:

Oh and maybe just maybe people would have taken these therapeutics more seriously at the time if trump's communications hadn't been the clown show of the century. 

I'm not supporting either administration. This info was available during Trump and Biden time, yet people had to resort to eating f__king horse dewormer because USG refused to acknowledge (and still do) that any treatment exists other than a "vax". In what sane world do you have to sue hospitals to allow ivermectin treatment because docs do not want to vector not even an inch from CDC guidance? Honk honk! 🤡 

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19 hours ago, Prozac said:

I think there’s a realization, a political realization, that there is only so much people will put up with. If I had to hazard a WAG it would be that the public health officials are urging more stringent measures than the current administration is willing to implement. This decision may be based on political expediency, considerations of second and third order effects of strict lockdowns, or most likely a combination of the above. In any case, it seems to me that the government is acting in an entirely expected way, which is to say they are taking data from public health, political, cultural, and economic sources and attempting to consider all of the above when creating policy. 

Fine. But are YOU ok with those things I've listed, and if so, why? If not, why not? What is your opinion?

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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/12/22/covid-omicron-variant-ihme-models-predict-140-m-new-infections-winter/8967421002/

"Researchers found the infection-hospitalization rate of omicron is about 90% to 96% lower than delta, and the infection-fatality rate is about 97% to 99% lower. In the past, we roughly thought that COVID was 10 times worse than flu and now we have a variant that is probably at least 10 times less severe,” Murray said. So, omicron will probably … be less severe than flu but much more transmissible.”

Lol the left is shitting on the CDC now, still think they're right. I'm team covid parties now I guess. This variant is basically a super spreader cold now and vaccines are widely available. I'm boosted and I'm pretty sure I have it. Everyone popped where I'm at. 

 

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