5 hours ago, HeloDude said:

So what the hell are the capital police there for if they won’t defend/protect the capital from violence?

Individual/small group actors. 

There are riot police, and they look quite different. I don't think it would be reasonable to expect a handful of cops to take on a mob. 

I'm on the "this was a riot, not an insurrection" side of the debate. Usually I like Tucker's view on domestic issues, but on this one I think his rage at the hypocrisy and double standard of the left is giving him a huge confirmation bias.

 

I've said it before, but the appearance of fairness/unfairness has always and will always overcome any rules, laws, or customs in a society. Our system was unique and successful specifically because of the intense focus on fairness. Sure, there were always violations of that principal, but it was always treated as an aberration. 

 

Now we have an entire political philosophy being based on the explicit abandonment of fairness, and the Democrats are embracing it because their entire strategy for electoral success is the coalition-of-minority-groups plan, based solely on their grievances against the majority. 

 

This will end badly. Either for the aforementioned minority groups who have been promised things that cannot be allowed to happen, or for everyone. 

3 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Democrats are embracing it because their entire strategy for electoral success is the coalition-of-minority-groups plan, based solely on their grievances against the majority. 

Similar to where the Republicans were in 2016. I’m so tired of these parties and politicians running against something/someone rather than passionately advocating for their own platforms and ideas. And pundits like Carlson get an equal share of the blame (yeah, plenty of the CNN/MSNBC crowd does the same….this discussion is about the little bow tie boy for now). If he gave a shit about making this country a better place, he’d spend more time telling you why DeSantis or Haley make the best candidate, and less time getting you outraged at whatever perceived atrocity the other side has committed most recently. He doesn’t. He cares about ratings and being filthy rich (he’s worth $420M. His salary is $35M). Hell, even Rupert Murdoch admits he’s a shill but he’ll never be fired because he makes Fox too much money. Fuck Tucker and everyone like him. 

4 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Individual/small group actors. 

There are riot police, and they look quite different. I don't think it would be reasonable to expect a handful of cops to take on a mob. 

If this same size of a group took the same action to the White House while the President was there, do you think the security personnel at the WH would have reacted in the same way?

If the job of the security folks at the Capital are to protect it from those violently entering, then I expect them to not just stand there…and if the cops acted accordingly given the situation, then why hasn’t Michael Byrd been charged for murder for killing Ashli Babbitt?

16 hours ago, Prozac said:

Similar to where the Republicans were in 2016.

I agree with the decrying of polarization, but this is revisionist history. Identity politics can be traced back to the 60's and 70's and have been incubated by far left (Marxist and progressive circles) for decades. Clinton was the last Democratic president who could be considered "liberal" instead of "progressive," whereas the Obamas were completely and proudly progressive. Joe isn't anything but an idiot, but his staff are all loyal Obama adherents. 

 

The "far right" identarians would be the white nationalists I guess, but the difference is the establishment right, Republicans, have never embraced the theories or promoters of white nationalism, whereas the left, Democrats, still heroize the grifters of critical race theory and their new scam, "equity." 

 

What you are seeing on the right is the response to unfairness. Fear, rage, and a retreat to tribalism. The tribe can be anything, but since the attacks from the left have been focused on race, the tribe of being white is seeing a resurgence. That should have been obvious when Obama said Trayvon Martin could have been his son. 

 

The Right's last unrighteous cause was the restrictions against gay couples. That fight is over, the Republicans lost, though curiously the most alarmist claims about the gay rights movement targeting children seems to have come true, if you accept that the trans movement is a branch of the gay rights movement.

 

Either way, Republicans have not made an explicit claim that we are not, in fact, equal. Democrats have, and we are paying for it more each day.

Edited March 9, 20232 yr by Lord Ratner

7 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Identity politics can be traced back to the 60's and 70's

Of which century? 🧐 

55 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

If the job of the security folks at the Capital are to protect it from those violently entering

If ”those” = a few people, sure. If "those" = a mob, then no, probably not.

 

I don't know the specifics of the Capitol police structure, but I would be shocked if it is regularly staffed to the level required to stop a violent mob.

 

Let's also not forget, Democratic leadership had intentionally reduced the capital police footprint because the expectation from everyone in Washington was that it was more likely for there to be leftist rioting, and they didn't like the optics from the George Floyd rioting.

 

58 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

and if the cops acted accordingly given the situation, then why hasn’t Michael Byrd been charged for murder for killing Ashli Babbitt?

Because there was no "accordingly." The situation escalated beyond what was planned, and the officers there were left to deal with it in whatever way they thought was best for the overall outcome. It's a shitty situation they were put in, so some became tour guides while others shot violent trespassers. I would hardly blame the police for acting in a less than perfect manner, in retrospect, given the situation they faced.

Because there was no "accordingly." The situation escalated beyond what was planned, and the officers there were left to deal with it in whatever way they thought was best for the overall outcome. It's a shitty situation they were put in, so some became tour guides while others shot violent trespassers. I would hardly blame the police for acting in a less than perfect manner, in retrospect, given the situation they faced.

I dated a capitol police officer back in the day. Coming from my background compared to hers their department is in a word, “weird.”

They are staffed and equipped almost like park police vs the more civil authority model used in metropolitan police. But then they had riot kit that was prestige and sub machine guns. It wasn’t heavily manned though because here are something like 5 different law enforcement agencies in the same location intermingled in responsibility but no centralized command and control.


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Well regardless of the side you fall on, I bet we can all agree Adam is a douche

https://rumble.com/v2c8msm-the-january-6th-meltdown-explodes-ep.-1964-the-dan-bongino-show.html

Dan Bongino is dead on (as always) about this idiocy.  

This thread will end up just like the Covid thread. The government lied.  The truth always comes out.  Unfortunately, there are too many people that jump on the ride and refuse to get off.  

12 hours ago, Prozac said:

... he's worth $420M. 

Can you provide a source for that?  Most sources I've seen believe Carlson's worth ~$30M. 

24 minutes ago, HuggyU2 said:

Can you provide a source for that?  Most sources I've seen believe Carlson's worth ~$30M. 

Morbidly curious...why does it matter if his worth is 30M vs 400M+?

1 hour ago, HuggyU2 said:

Can you provide a source for that?  Most sources I've seen believe Carlson's worth ~$30M. 

To be fair, various sources seem to have him somewhere between 30M on the low end, to over 500M on the high end. Salary figures vary wildly as well. I’m sure that just about every one of these “sources” is trying to paint a picture, be it good or bad. Suffice to say, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle & what I posted was, admittedly, likely at the high end. I stand by my sentiment however. 

23 hours ago, HeloDude said:

So what the hell are the capital police there for if they won’t defend/protect the capital from violence?

Come on dude.

 

How many rioters/trespassers were there, and how many LEOs were there to sop or impede them?  I know you're not a cop; neither am I.  But surely you can see that the police were outnumbered by orders of magnitude and lacked the manpower and resources to protect a 170,000 sq-ft building.  But don't take my word for it.  Here is what Officer Robishaw had to say about it:

"The sheer number of them compared to us, I knew ahead there was no way we could all get physical with them...I can’t do anything, you know, all I can do is shout orders and if they listen, great, and if they don’t, I cannot force them. I am by myself.” 

Chief Manger:

"One false allegation is that our officers helped the rioters and acted as 'tour guides.'  This is outrageou and false...I don’t have to remind you how outnumbered our officers were on January 6. Those officers did their best to use de-escalation tactics to try to talk rioters into getting each other to leave the building”

De-escalation tactics? Sounds made up. If you’re out numbered and you choose to do nothing, why stay if you’re in fear of an insurrection? The whole thing makes zero sense the way they claim.

1 hour ago, Guardian said:

De-escalation tactics? Sounds made up. If you’re out numbered and you choose to do nothing, why stay if you’re in fear of an insurrection? The whole thing makes zero sense the way they claim.

"Verbal self-defense, also known as verbal judo, is defined as using words to prevent, de-escalate or end an attempted assault. It is a way of using words to maintain mental and emotional safety."

https://maui.hawaii.edu/pd/events/2019/11/verbal-judo-training/#:~:text=Verbal self-defense%2C also known,maintain mental and emotional safety.

 

You haven't lived until you've seen an AMC Raven verbal judo people who don't speak American in Central Africa and SE Asia...comical, but each person's intentions were revealed through body language eventually.

 

Example: https://www.andersen.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/415516/736th-sfs-airmen-put-verbal-judo-to-the-test/

Yep. Like I said. Made up. Robbie Kwan Do

3 hours ago, Guardian said:

De-escalation tactics? Sounds made up. If you’re out numbered and you choose to do nothing, why stay if you’re in fear of an insurrection? The whole thing makes zero sense the way they claim.

Really? You're an educated adult and you have a hard time believing that verbal de-escalation is a real thing?

 

I got it, the left sucks and has completely mischaracterized the entire event. Totally agree. But being intentionally stupid just doesn't seem like a logical solution to this problem.

 

It's quite clear that a lot of people in this thread have never been afraid for their physical safety.

Our speculation on on verbal jujitsu versus cowardly disorganization is irrelevant; the January 6 congressional committee should have investigated why the capitol police were unable to effectively protect the capital.  Unfortunately, because of Democrats playing politics, the investigation was a complete sham.  Indisputable.

So instead Tucker Carlson has investigated, and say what you will about his motives, he is adding important facts and witnesses and video to the discussion. Everybody should be in favor of that, instead, Democrats are trying to censor him.  

Similarly, Republicans have started an investigation into Covid origins. Democrats did not do that for years and actively censored the public from knowing facts.

I sense a theme here.

1 hour ago, Guardian said:

Yep. Like I said. Made up. Robbie Kwan Do

https://fb.watch/j9QE6qfL4Z/

There are times where I think that there's no way that our country would find itself back in a place where brothers are killing brothers on a battle field.  But then I read threads here and am reminded that there are absolutely people here who wouldn't hesitate to shoot me dead if we ever get into a shooting war against ourselves.

 

Really? You're an educated adult and you have a hard time believing that verbal de-escalation is a real thing?
 
I got it, the left sucks and has completely mischaracterized the entire event. Totally agree. But being intentionally stupid just doesn't seem like a logical solution to this problem.
 
It's quite clear that a lot of people in this thread have never been afraid for their physical safety.

You’re making my point. If they are afraid for their physical safety why not withdraw? If nothing they do is going to have any effect and they are in danger and out numbered why stay? They weren’t protecting anything as they were already giving free reign to the building. Doesn’t make sense.

I have a hard time believing that this tactic was what they were actually trying to do. Seems more like a convenient excuse after the fact. Poor choice of words on my part. I know it is a thing. Just hard to believe that it was the tactic chosen in this case.

You assume I’m educated…..

On 3/7/2023 at 9:19 PM, Pooter said:

...in a sea of violence...

The f*ck are you talking about? I'm guessing you've never had to hurt or kill someone. 

I'm guessing you're in the camp that think "words" can be violence as well. 

Edited March 9, 20232 yr by VMFA187

I think we're arguing two different questions and kinda crossing the streams. 
 

Question 1: how was capitol police so bad that the building got overrun by maga buffalo hat retards

Question 2: what do you do when you're a vastly outnumbered cop in a building overrun by maga buffalo hat retards

 

question 1 is a valid concern and worth investigation and reform so the capitol doesn't have such limp dick security. 
 

question 2 is basically a distraction/red herring and what the Tucker videos are about.