Stiffler Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Received this little doozy, and I thought we had a pilot shortage.... From: ######### 147 ARS/DO Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:17 AM To: 171 ARW/Operations Group Subject: Hat/Uniform wear HI All, We have been reminding you about uniform wear and hats in the parking lot over the last few weeks, but it has officially hit its limit. The Wing/CC was eating out at a local restaurant and saw another member of the Ops Group not wearing their hat when they should have been. This seems like a small issue, but it has gotten out of hand. If we truly believe we are the best KC-135 unit we need to show it on and off the base. Effective immediately if you are observed not wearing hats or the uniform correctly, aircrew will be grounded for 30 days and limited to that month's drills only. Non aircrew will be limited to that month's drills only. AGRs will receive a letter of counseling and grounded if appropriate. IF you need help with uniform wear see AFI 36-2903 or the 1st Sergeant (Name Removed) Lt Col PaANG Acting Commander, 171st Operations Group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spur38 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 ....but if you don't make minimums we can waive them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brabus Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Grounded for 30 days, seriously? How does someone think that's a logical response to someone not wearing a hat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravedigger Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 This is absurd for a couple of reasons. First, grounding someone for 30 days is a stupid threat/reaction. Second, how fucking difficult is it to throw on your cover in the parking lot? Not zipping your leg pocket after removing the cover, fine. But not even wearing a cover at all, not on the flightline? I can't say I've seen somebody intentionally do that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpharatz Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Lately I've been musing about writing a little screed about how maybe the ANG can use it's political muscle to save the USAF from itself. But instead a question. Can an Air tech even ground another air tech? ....anybody remember the days when the AC was a high powered lawyer....the copilot was a college student...the Nav owned a milllion dollar business...the Boom was actually friends with his US Senator and maintenance was swarming with pro athletes....anybody? At one time there were units that could fly over Martha's Vineyard and somebody would look down and mention that a new pilot's dad owned that stretch of beachfront....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dupe Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 ....anybody remember the days when the AC was a high powered lawyer....the copilot was a college student...the Nav owned a milllion dollar business...the Boom was actually friends with his US Senator and maintenance was swarming with pro athletes....anybody? At one time there were units that could fly over Martha's Vineyard and somebody would look down and mention that a new pilot's dad owned that stretch of beachfront....... How was that system good for anybody except the George W Bushes of the world? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEflyer Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) How was that system good for anybody except the George W Bushes of the world? ...because actually having [true] diversity leads to a better organization. Edited November 19, 2013 by NEflyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookieRookie Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Do Technicians have to wear their cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17D_guy Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 This is absurd for a couple of reasons. First, grounding someone for 30 days is a stupid threat/reaction. Second, how fucking difficult is it to throw on your cover in the parking lot? Not zipping your leg pocket after removing the cover, fine. But not even wearing a cover at all, not on the flightline? I can't say I've seen somebody intentionally do that. Working now with quite a few guard peeps and I've heard the "cover optional" thing more than once. It's one of those things that just.. doesn't seem hard to do and doesn't kill morale. You had to do it through initial training (Basic/OTS/etc). Perhaps that's part of their heritage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloyd christmas Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Do Technicians have to wear their cover? No. We don't wear a flight suit or boots either. The best part about being a technician is growing my hair and beard out. Not saluting is good too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Working now with quite a few guard peeps and I've heard the "cover optional" thing more than once. It's one of those things that just.. doesn't seem hard to do and doesn't kill morale. You had to do it through initial training (Basic/OTS/etc). Perhaps that's part of their heritage? It depends. If it's after hat hours, you're fine. Usually coinciding with the EENT time for the particular day; so check your WX sheets to get a ballpark on when that time is. Same with BMET for the start of hat wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockheedFix Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 It depends. If it's after hat hours, you're fine. Usually coinciding with the EENT time for the particular day; so check your WX sheets to get a ballpark on when that time is. Same with BMET for the start of hat wear. Not sure if serious. If this is real, it seems like it would be easier to just wear your hat than check the WX sheet and see when you can get away with not wearing it. I've always wondered if this was a real thing because my brother(Army Guard) showed up to my commissioning without a hat because it was after 1730 and he literally thought no one in the military was required to wear a hat after 1730. Needlessly to say he felt dumb when multiple Army 0-6s glared at him for being the only guy in uniform without a cover. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Man Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Not sure if serious. If this is real, it seems like it would be easier to just wear your hat than check the WX sheet and see when you can get away with not wearing it. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) Not sure if serious. If this is real, it seems like it would be easier to just wear your hat than check the WX sheet and see when you can get away with not wearing it. I've always wondered if this was a real thing because my brother(Army Guard) showed up to my commissioning without a hat because it was after 1730 and he literally thought no one in the military was required to wear a hat after 1730. Needlessly to say he felt dumb when multiple Army 0-6s glared at him for being the only guy in uniform without a cover. A good piece of chaff to get a uniform nazi questioning himself for just enough time for you to evade. I made it up......straight out of my current AFR 35-10, 1 July 1977. Edited November 19, 2013 by MD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junglejett Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I only wore a cover in the Guard when I was not high. As for diversity in the Guard, my former squadron had a ton and it was appreciated. Went to the reserves and they could have given two shits about what you did on the outside. You were to do your job based on your crew position, nothing more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqwatch Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I'm trying to imagine a military organization where bitching about wearing my godamn cover trumps bitching about cut flying hours, bullsh*t masters degrees and sexy assault training. YGBFSM. Must be rough over there in the guard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azimuth Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 The only people who will really bitch about this are Guard babies. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJDRVR Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 What a total failure of leadership. A wing commander gets indigestion because one of his men is *gasp* not wearing a hat. "I'll tell you Margie, I can't believe what's going on in this unit, some heads are going to roll!" The Colonel whips out his smartphone and fires of an angry e-mail to his ops group commander. Out comes the silly threat of grounding. With all of the important things a flying organization needs to concern itself with, this ARW's denizens are now focused on who's gonna get" popped" by the leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindsight2020 Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 The only people who will really bitch about this are Guard babies. Right, because Guard babies are the reason AD Lite has become it's own cancer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dupe Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 ...because actually having [true] diversity leads to a better organization. The Guard of yore was not exactly a bastion of diversity, now was it? The social contract of these flying clubs has changed dramatically since we began going to war at a very reliable rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe1234 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 The Guard of yore was not exactly a bastion of diversity, now was it? The social contract of these flying clubs has changed dramatically since we began going to war at a very reliable rate. Changed for the better, I'd say. Of course I'm sure there are plenty of people wishing it was still a country club that excluded "undesirables". 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toro Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 We have been reminding you about uniform wear and hats in the parking lot over the last few weeks, but it has officially hit its limit. The Wing/CC was eating out at a local restaurant and saw another member of the Ops Group not wearing their hat when they should have been. Big enough problem to threaten a 30-day grounding, but not a big enough problem to walk over and tell one of your subordinates to put their hat on? Chickenshit. He must not have had a chief with him to correct the uniform infraction. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEFF-15 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Big enough problem to threaten a 30-day grounding, but not a big enough problem to walk over and tell one of your subordinates to put their hat on? Can't someone just tell ole boy to shim it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Is the "AD-lite" mentality predominantly staying out of ANG units? Of course with the exception in this thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azimuth Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Is the "AD-lite" mentality predominantly staying out of ANG units? Of course with the exception in this thread... From the students I see in the FTU, depends on the unit. Same for AFRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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