War with Iran and your career

[HeloDude]

By getting "drawn" into a war with Iran, I simply meant that I don't think our current administration has the nerve or determination to go into a strike with Israel. No way that our administration would launch a unilateral strike on their own, so by default if Israel attacks Iran, and then Iran launches Scuds at US bases in the Middle East, we'll get "drawn" into the war.

I still don't see it happening, but that's just me--there will just be too much pressure on Israel to NOT strike. 1981 was different: Iraq hit was much closer, it didn't take place 'too' long after all the other Mideast Wars against Israel in which they destroyed everybody, peace with Egypt had recently occurred, and Iraq was already involved in a war with Iran. Today, Egypt is ran by Islamist extremists and is considered by many to be unstable, Iran is much further than Iraq, recent wars in Iraq and Afganistan isn't helping the international community being supportive of any new wars, our administration (and I believe a Romney one as well) doesn't want more instability in the Middle East and thus behind closed doors will urge Israel to not attack, etc. Again, all just my opinion.

I know nearly every one of us would rather be doing the mission than training around the flagpole for massive airdrops in the next Normandy invasion. That is, unless the dudes in Washington let sequestration happen, and then we'll all be at the VFW in January talking about the good ole days when we had jobs and flew actual aircraft during OIF.

How many Army Soldiers and Marines do you actually know? They have had it pretty bad during the wars...overall, much worse than the other services. From someone who volunteered and served on a 365 in Iraq (and also volunteered to go to Afganistan, though that won't happen), I'm not all about 'wanting to go to war with Iran'...do you not see the massive shit storm the last 10 years have been? I'm all about doing the mission man, but I'm not all about going to war when you don't have to. In the meantime, I look forward to when our Army and Marine brothern (and our AF operators who are taking it in the ass as well) can go back to mostly just 'flying around the flagpole' while preparing for the next major war.

[guineapigfury]

How many Army Soldiers and Marines do you actually know? They have had it pretty bad during the wars...overall, much worse than the other services. From someone who volunteered and served on a 365 in Iraq (and also volunteered to go to Afganistan, though that won't happen), I'm not all about 'wanting to go to war with Iran'...do you not see the massive shit storm the last 10 years have been? I'm all about doing the mission man, but I'm not all about going to war when you don't have to. In the meantime, I look forward to when our Army and Marine brothern (and our AF operators who are taking it in the ass as well) can go back to mostly just 'flying around the flagpole' while preparing for deterring the next major war.

FIFY. Totally agree with the post overall though.

[HercDude]

I still don't see it happening, but that's just me--there will just be too much pressure on Israel to NOT strike. 1981 was different

You're right. Israel has a better Air Force now with better equipment. They WILL NOT allow Iran to get nukes. It's not about us at all. I 100% believe they will tell Obama to f*ck off if he offers up his opinion. The Israeli's have shown numerous times that they don't take shit from their neighboors. And just like in 1981 I think the leaders of rest of the Arab world will breathe a sigh of relief while they publicy condem Israel.

[StoleIt]

What makes you say that?

International rhetoric/foreign policy. Pakistan and N Korea aren't going around with a political stance that calls on the destruction of another nation and the genocide of an entire people.

Believe me, I am not saying Pakistan and N Korea are excellent choices for having nukes, but if I had to pick two from the three on this list it would be as is.

[HeloDude]

And just like in 1981 I think the leaders of rest of the Arab world will breathe a sigh of relief while they publicy condem Israel.

Definitely agree on this one (if it were to happen)--just because they're all Muslim countries, doesn't mean they're all the same/like each other. Not to mention the whole Shia vs Suni and Arab vs Persian aspect.

For the record, to me, this part of the thread (Israel attacking Iran's nuclear capabilities) is worth an interesting discussion, but what I find troubling is that there are some on here wanting us to get into a conflict with Iran which I think is completely idiotic. We all love our jobs and want to do the mission at hand, but who wants to get involved in another shithole country where the majority of the people are too lazy to fight for themselves and, quite frankly, don't really care much for the US? I'm all about buying their oil...and that's about it.

[Rocker]

I'm all about conquering them and taking their oil.

[SuperWSO]

... there are some on here wanting us to get into a conflict with Iran which I think is completely idiotic.

I think most of the discussion has revolved around what may or may not occur if the war starts. I don't think anyone here has advocated starting another war in the middle east; we've been there and done that long enough. I think most in the US military should also realize that Iran has the capacity to make a conflict extremely painful for everyone involved.

I think most of those points were also made previously here

[PapaJu]

International rhetoric/foreign policy. Pakistan and N Korea aren't going around with a political stance that calls on the destruction of another nation and the genocide of an entire people.

Believe me, I am not saying Pakistan and N Korea are excellent choices for having nukes, but if I had to pick two from the three on this list it would be as is.

Let's throw out Pakistan altogether. NK's rhetoric is probably worse than Iran, but no one pays them any attention because it's on a different level of nuttery. I think you're reading too much into what Iran says for the masses and what they'd actually do in a no-shit situation where they were facing a military attack. Try and mess with the Strait of Hormuz? Maybe. Actually nuke someone (assuming they had the capability)? Doubtful.

Edited August 21, 2012 by PapaJu

[bagasticks]

What he said! On both statements. Marines think (relative term) anyone who isn't a Marine are pussies...who really gives a ###### what Marines think?

I give a fuk, what Marines think, they were double-dutching with our enemy's windpipes when the Air Force was a turd smear on some Army general's mattress. I suspect anyone who has been on the ground with them does too. Of course, I'm biased. With regards to them thinking non-Marines are pussies.. well, if the shoe fits. People dont join the Marines for the benfits package.

That aside, it's a volunteer force.. If deploying again isnt your thing, southwest and delta are hiring.

Edited August 21, 2012 by bagasticks

[BitteEinBit]

Delta is not hiring

[Vetter]

Neither is Southwest.

[Rusty Pipes]

That aside, it's a volunteer force.. If deploying again isnt your thing, southwest and delta are hiring.

I remember lots of guys back in 2003-2004 who couldn't wait to "get into the fight". It was the same talk about wanting to fly their aircraft into the combat situation they were trained to operate in. Many of these same guys were in the long line that went around the corner of the MPF at midnight with their VSP package in hand in 2006. The new guys who showed up at units in 2006 who were full of the same piss and vinegar were bitching about who was and wasn't eligible for this last round of VSP/RIFs. And the thing is... I don't blame these guys for a second for wanting to get out.

The same guys who were Sq/CC's and DO's back then that were telling the guy who was TDY for 270 days that year with 700 combat hrs that he didn't get a strat on his OPR because he didn't plan the Christmas Party or have a Masters yet are now Wing CC's and 1 Stars... That includes 3 of my former Sq CC's and DO's. They supported this shoe clerk mentality with vigor back then... do you honestly think that anything will change because a bunch of B-2s from Guam and Navy cruise missiles beat up another kid from the same neighborhood for a week or so? The sock checks might go away for that same week or so, but that's about it. I don't know anyone that signed up for this who wouldn't be ready to go if the flag was raised. I can probably speak for a good number of us who have been playing since day one that didn't VSP or get out when their commitment was up... If deploying "again" is your thing, please contact the 365 shop and the AEF Center and let them know you are an avid volunteer! Until then, I'm not sure I'd be calling into question the commitment of those guys who are just now getting to know their 6 and 7 year old kids or having to travel across the country just to see them after their divorce when they decide that Southwest or FedEx may be a better option than reflective belt checks at the Deid.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Rusty Pipes

[Prosuper]

"You rogues, do you want to live forever" Fredrick the Great

[Catbox]

You're right. Israel has a better Air Force now with better equipment. They WILL NOT allow Iran to get nukes. It's not about us at all. I 100% believe they will tell Obama to f*ck off if he offers up his opinion. The Israeli's have shown numerous times that they don't take shit from their neighboors. And just like in 1981 I think the leaders of rest of the Arab world will breathe a sigh of relief while they publicy condem Israel.

Agree, but don't think that Iran learned and learned well from the very public Israeli strikes against Iraqi nuke facilities in the early 80s.

To add (and to discuss the merits, sorry OP) there's a great article in the economist this week about how dire the situation is for the Iranian public. Official 24% inflation, (probably much higher), food shortages worse than during the Iran-Iraq war and a public generally fed up with Amaninjenidad and growing discontent with the actual leadership. I can be as hawkish as the next guy but if there was ever a case to let the other Instruments of Power (forgive me for getting into ACSC garbage) work, this would be the time. Call me jaded but no doubt we (or Israel) could roll over Iran but even if it was just Israel doing a anti-nuke strike, I think we would be drawn into another decade of peace keeping duties, complete with insurgents and IEDs and the overall sense of futility of what was actually being accomplished.

[SocialD]

I give a fuk, what Marines think, they were double-dutching with our enemy's windpipes when the Air Force was a turd smear on some Army general's mattress. I suspect anyone who has been on the ground with them does too. Of course, I'm biased. With regards to them thinking non-Marines are pussies.. well, if the shoe fits. People dont join the Marines for the benfits package.

Nope...still don't care.

Call me jaded but no doubt we (or Israel) could roll over Iran but even if it was just Israel doing a anti-nuke strike, I think we would be drawn into another decade of peace keeping duties, complete with insurgents and IEDs and the overall sense of futility of what was actually being accomplished.

This!

[bagasticks]

Until then, I'm not sure I'd be calling into question the commitment of those guys who are just now getting to know their 6 and 7 year old kids or having to travel across the country just to see them after their divorce when they decide that Southwest or FedEx may be a better option than reflective belt checks at the Deid.

I'm not calling out anyone's commitment, my wife and kids have been putting up with this shit for 18.5 yrs, i simply stated if it aint working, than quit. There are many thousands in our military that have it WAY worse than 200+ days in the 'deid every year, and wish that they had problems like chiefs bitching about socks, and belts etc..

Edited August 21, 2012 by bagasticks

[Rusty Pipes]

I'm not calling out anyone's commitment, my wife and kids have been putting up with this shit for 18.5 yrs, i simply stated if it aint working, than quit. There are many thousands in our military that have it WAY worse than 200+ days in the 'deid every year, and wish that they had problems like chiefs bitching about socks, and belts etc..

Well consider yourself luckier than many who don't have those kids and that wife around anymore because of what we have been doing for the past decade. What I am saying is that there are plenty of guys who have been in 16-18 years that have been living every minute of this for the past 11 years. When some 25 yr old kid shows up from Luke, Seymour, Little Rock or Altus says he can't wait to get into the fight I think that's great... but be careful what you wish for. You saying that the guys who have been doing this every day for the past 11 yrs that don't want to spend their last few years back in a tent because the FNG hasn't dropped a bomb yet should get out then you are speaking for what I would think is a VERY small minority... and you certainly aren't speaking for anyone that I know.

BTW... my kids don't care if I'm sleeping on the side of a mountain 20 miles outside of the FOB or if I'm at the Deid or Masas getting stopped by a MSgt on the way to the pisser because my PT shirt isn't tucked in... they care that I missed their birthday AGAIN and that I wasn't at their school play AGAIN.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Rusty Pipes

[joe1234]

I'm not calling out anyone's commitment, my wife and kids have been putting up with this shit for 18.5 yrs, i simply stated if it aint working, than quit. There are many thousands in our military that have it WAY worse than 200+ days in the 'deid every year, and wish that they had problems like chiefs bitching about socks, and belts etc..

Yeah, I'll just walk over to the CC's office and hand him my two weeks' notice, because it's totally just that easy. Idiot.

[bagasticks]

You saying that the guys who have been doing this every day for the past 11 yrs that don't want to spend their last few years back in a tent because the FNG hasn't dropped a bomb yet should get out then you are speaking for what I would think is a VERY small minority... and you certainly aren't speaking for anyone that I know.

say what?

I'm simply saying if, someone is not ready,willing, or able to deploy, than it's time to hang it up.. (obviously at the end of their contract, clarification for aborted fetus1234)

[Rusty Pipes]

Actually, that's not what you said.

.

That aside, it's a volunteer force.. If deploying again isnt your thing, southwest and delta are hiring.

If I don't ever have to put on a tan flight suit again and go back to any shithole in that part of the world then it will be too soon! With that being said, if the boss says it's time to go then I am ready, willing and able to deploy. But no, deploying again isn't my thing... am I supposed to get out by your standards or should I continue to use my 10+ yrs of combat time and experience to teach these new kids how to employ their MWS in combat so they are ready when and if their number is called?

When I'm flying with a young kid in our mission ready program and they say they just want get through it as soon as possible so they can get out there and fly combat missions I think that is great, but I always tell them the same thing at the end of the debrief. Good job today, now go home and put some steaks on the grill, drink a few good beers, and bang the wife... because if you're in such a rush to get into the fight then you won't be at your house doing any of those for a while... and if you're lucky there won't be some other dude at your house while you're gone doing that either!

Edited August 21, 2012 by Rusty Pipes

[SocialD]

Find a Reserve AETC gig, deploy when/if you want...problem solved!

[Prozac]

There are many thousands in our military that have it WAY worse than 200+ days in the 'deid every year, and wish that they had problems like chiefs bitching about socks, and belts etc..

I hate this argument. So, because some have it worse we should all just suck it up and pretend like it's all great? Disregarding the sport bitching that goes on in this forum, there are a lot of messed up things about the AF and I don't begrudge anyone that, after serving his term says "enough". Now, if this thing kicks off and some douche goes tactical DNIF to get out of going, that's a whole other story.

Find a Reserve AETC gig, deploy when/if you want...problem solved!

Doesn't quite work like that these days.

[BitteEinBit]

I remember lots of guys back in 2003-2004 who couldn't wait to "get into the fight". It was the same talk about wanting to fly their aircraft into the combat situation they were trained to operate in. Many of these same guys were in the long line that went around the corner of the MPF at midnight between 0900-1100 and 1300-1500 (except Tuesdays and Thursdays because they're closed for training) with their VSP package in hand in 2006.

FIFY

[Cap-10]

...something about Reserves...

Doesn't quite work like that these days.

Details?

Cheers,

Cap-10

[Prozac]

Involuntary mobilizations are a fact of life for many units. You don't just get to choose when/if you go. That said, work/life balance is still much better in the ARC IMHO.