pawnman Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 47 minutes ago, SnapLock said: ^^^THIS!!!^^^ So much! SOS was a very depressing day for me because I realized just how screwed up the Air Force was overall. I knew that day that I'd be punching. I thought the same thing the day we learned about AF budgeting. We were all talking about what a BS process was, and only one guy in the class saw the value: "Look, now we know how it works. Until you know how the system works, you can't bend the system to your will." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 My favorite was the Air Force 4-Star IG, standing up and telling us that the inspection process was broken, there was nothing he could do about it but it was up to us Captains to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurelySerious Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Duck said: My favorite was the Air Force 4-Star IG, standing up and telling us that the inspection process was broken, there was nothing he could do about it but it was up to us Captains to fix it. Similarly enjoyed the flying-the-nukes OG spending an hour of our time saying, "it's not my fault, there's nothing I could have done, and I'm not sure why I'm talking to you." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDDieselPilot Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 22 hours ago, pawnman said: Seems to square with the last promotion board. We had a rated officer with a DP passed over for LtCol in the last board. One of the reasons given in his AFPC feedback was a lack of FGO awards. Seems like a trend.. buddy of mine was passed over last year (for O5) and AFPC said it was likely because he didn't have any FGO awards. Interesting world we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 On 8/1/2017 at 2:10 PM, ClearedHot said: I went to SOS (under protest), 60 days after I pinned on O-3...Being the most "junior" guy there I actually had to pull CQ duty one weekend to sign people in and out. If the A-10 pilot's Wing/CC has any sack he would elevate this until he was told to pound sand by SECAF. I know someone on the board knows the SOS/CC, please tell him to pull the bottom of his ears as hard as possible until he hears a loud popping sound. I wonder if the Wing/CC called Killer? Is he still the AU/CC...I am sure he would not put up with this unless there is more to the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMFA187 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 A "GAO Fighter Pilot Manning Working Group," whatever that means, is coming to Miramar tomorrow to interview/discuss why everyone is leaving. Separate meeting for Commanders and Co Grade. Should be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseAg03 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 A "GAO Fighter Pilot Manning Working Group," whatever that means, is coming to Miramar tomorrow to interview/discuss why everyone is leaving. Separate meeting for Commanders and Co Grade. Should be interesting.Please, for the love of God don't say "it's not about the money." 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATIS Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 1 hour ago, VMFA187 said: A "GAO Fighter Pilot Manning Working Group," whatever that means, is coming to Miramar tomorrow to interview/discuss why everyone is leaving. Separate meeting for Commanders and Co Grade. Should be interesting. Would love to see the "raw" results/notes from both of those groups to compare and contrast. ATIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinGrunt Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) Did my exit survey today and DEFINITELY did not say "it's not about the money." Not the #1, but it was def #2 or #3. I did think that it was funny that they asked "how much of a bonus would you need" and then capped it at $60K. Sorry boss, Cannon will cost you WAY more than that. Like $400K. After taxes. Edited August 4, 2017 by FlyinGrunt Insufficient raging 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 12 hours ago, VMFA187 said: A "GAO Fighter Pilot Manning Working Group," whatever that means, is coming to Miramar tomorrow to interview/discuss why everyone is leaving. Separate meeting for Commanders and Co Grade. Should be interesting. We just hosted that meeting with Gen Rand here at Dyess. Unfortunately (fortunately?) I was flying and didn't get to attend. I'm looking forward to hearing what the results were. Same thing: meeting with commanders, CGOs, and FGOs separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMFA187 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, MooseAg03 said: Please, for the love of God don't say "it's not about the money." That won't be a problem. Personally, I'd rather them take the bonus money, and hire dedicated civilians for all the ground jobs to take care of all the administrative duties so we can focus on what is important, rather than keeping all the collateral work and getting paid more. But money is clearly part of the issue for people with the amount of money that we all have had invested in us who have the available options we do. Edited August 4, 2017 by VMFA187 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanePhlyer Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Anybody heard of the Second Assignment In Place plan potentially coming out? Read some specifics on it the other day, can't say I'm all that impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Anybody heard of the Second Assignment In Place plan potentially coming out? Read some specifics on it the other day, can't say I'm all that impressed. Haven't heard anything about it. What's the gist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetfreezer Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 10 hours ago, pawnman said: We just hosted that meeting with Gen Rand here at Dyess. Unfortunately (fortunately?) I was flying and didn't get to attend. I'm looking forward to hearing what the results were. Same thing: meeting with commanders, CGOs, and FGOs separately. Question (to paraphrase): If the AF is so concerned about rated retention, why the lower promotion rates for rated on the recent boards Answer/analogy: The quarterback is the star player on the football team, but we need to remember that the game couldn't happen without everyone else, even the waterboy. I'm pretty sure I have less training to do to become a waterboy for the Patriots than to replace Tom Brady... Also, if we think we have it bad because of XXX, we need to go to see those in Walter Reed and reconsider if we really have it that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMFA187 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 The meeting was comprised of two individuals who are tasked to create a report to the Senate Armed Services Committee to be published at the end of the calendar year. They were simply here to listen to fighter pilots and get an answer for A) if retention is actually an issue or will be, and if so, B) why? Salient points were communicated and we were told that in their meetings with higher levels of service members, only one service, and you can guess which one, has admitted it has a fighter pilot retention problem. They are also the only ones who are coming up with possible solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanePhlyer Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 9 hours ago, ihtfp06 said: Haven't heard anything about it. What's the gist? Gist is that Maj's w/>14 yrs TAFMS and O-5s w/>17 yrs TAFMS can apply to spend another 3 yrs at their base. It's a program that they apply for and is approved by the WG/CC. I think it's still in the inputs phase. It seems like a dog and pony show IMHO. The ADP and reclama process should do this, but AFPC does whatever the hell they want. Latest is that I'm on the VML but never got notified and it's after the reclama window. Can't wait to fly for the airlines. UFB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 3 hours ago, magnetfreezer said: Question (to paraphrase): If the AF is so concerned about rated retention, why the lower promotion rates for rated on the recent boards Answer/analogy: The quarterback is the star player on the football team, but we need to remember that the game couldn't happen without everyone else, even the waterboy. I'm pretty sure I have less training to do to become a waterboy for the Patriots than to replace Tom Brady... Also, if we think we have it bad because of XXX, we need to go to see those in Walter Reed and reconsider if we really have it that bad. The answer to that one is that we suck at writing OPRs and developing our people. No word on when we'll start valuing leadership in the cockpit vs leadership from a desk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 36 minutes ago, PlanePhlyer said: Gist is that Maj's w/>14 yrs TAFMS and O-5s w/>17 yrs TAFMS can apply to spend another 3 yrs at their base. It's a program that they apply for and is approved by the WG/CC. I think it's still in the inputs phase. It seems like a dog and pony show IMHO. The ADP and reclama process should do this, but AFPC does whatever the hell they want. Latest is that I'm on the VML but never got notified and it's after the reclama window. Can't wait to fly for the airlines. UFB. Sounds nice, but we're already being told you're not competitive for promotion unless you have "breadth" and "do something other than flying". Look at your WG/CC and OG/CC...they probably have a half-dozen PCSes in the last ten years. You can stay where you are if you want to just fly the line as a major. Of course, this problem will run headlong into the RSAP problem, and you'll quickly have a drought of O-5s when we can't send ANYONE to staff because EVERY squadron is critically manned...no word on that solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Termy Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 "Also, if we think we have it bad because of ###, we need to go to see those in Walter Reed and reconsider if we really have it that bad." They didn't really say that, did they? Tell me they didn't say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookieRookie Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Termy said: "Also, if we think we have it bad because of ###, we need to go to see those in Walter Reed and reconsider if we really have it that bad." They didn't really say that, did they? Tell me they didn't say that. I do not think it was a they, I think it was a he as in Gen Robin Rand AFGSC/CC. That would align with past statements he has said to AFGSC aircrew. Edited August 5, 2017 by LookieRookie Forgot a not 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurelySerious Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Termy said: "Also, if we think we have it bad because of ###, we need to go to see those in Walter Reed and reconsider if we really have it that bad." They didn't really say that, did they? Tell me they didn't say that. 1 hour ago, LookieRookie said: I do think it was a they, I think it was a he as in Gen Robin Rand AFGSC/CC. That would align with past statements he has said to AFGSC aircrew. Checks. Reference his "we're not losing jets like Nam" comments as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyFlightSuit Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 14 hours ago, magnetfreezer said: Question (to paraphrase): If the AF is so concerned about rated retention, why the lower promotion rates for rated on the recent boards Answer/analogy: The quarterback is the star player on the football team, but we need to remember that the game couldn't happen without everyone else, even the waterboy. I'm pretty sure I have less training to do to become a waterboy for the Patriots than to replace Tom Brady... Also, if we think we have it bad because of ###, we need to go to see those in Walter Reed and reconsider if we really have it that bad. I've had it with these bullshit equivalency arguments from leadership citing how "good" we have it compared to XYZ community. Gen Rand has so many F#$% fanboys here at RND its insane, yet every time he talks this kind of bullshit those fanboys are on their knees gulping down the massive load. Gen Now land and his little meeting was only marginally better and at least by the end he seemed to be properly whipped into the correct mindset (time will tell). Before that I've heard the same kind of crap from numerous commanders when we complained about ops tempo with deployments stacked on top of TDY's, reinforced that we are "At War" as if that has any ing meaning any more after over 15 years. There is a reason I didn't join the Marines or Army, and while those patriots at Walter Reed deserve nothing but our utmost respect, they are not to be used as tools for ignoring the issues the force faces today. When I bring up leadership failings in a conversation it generally leads to a "well so and so is a good guy etc", but I feel more and more that regardless of how good a commander or leader you may be, your now culpable for this mess and arguing who the good ones versus bad ones is a waste of time. As it stands the effect is they are all bad because the outcome is shit, until any thing starts getting fix'd they are all failures in my book until proven otherwise don't care how cool they were before or are now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snooter Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 5 minutes ago, DirtyFlightSuit said: I've had it with these bullshit equivalency arguments from leadership citing how "good" we have it compared to XYZ community. Gen Rand has so many F#$% fanboys here at RND its insane, yet every time he talks this kind of bullshit those fanboys are on their knees gulping down the massive load. Gen Now land and his little meeting was only marginally better and at least by the end he seemed to be properly whipped into the correct mindset (time will tell). Before that I've heard the same kind of crap from numerous commanders when we complained about ops tempo with deployments stacked on top of TDY's, reinforced that we are "At War" as if that has any ing meaning any more after over 15 years. There is a reason I didn't join the Marines or Army, and while those patriots at Walter Reed deserve nothing but our utmost respect, they are not to be used as tools for ignoring the issues the force faces today. When I bring up leadership failings in a conversation it generally leads to a "well so and so is a good guy etc", but I feel more and more that regardless of how good a commander or leader you may be, your now culpable for this mess and arguing who the good ones versus bad ones is a waste of time. As it stands the effect is they are all bad because the outcome is shit, until any thing starts getting fix'd they are all failures in my book until proven otherwise don't care how cool they were before or are now. At least those guys have someone who will tell them like it is instead of quibbling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyFlightSuit Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) Oh they've been told many times, I've simply given up as it always falls on deaf ears. I'm in the "well I tried so screw it" mode. Edited August 5, 2017 by DirtyFlightSuit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookieRookie Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 (edited) HAF is going to give crew rest waivers to WG/CC and possibly SQ/CC. http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2017/09/19/goldfein-crew-rest-decisions-will-soon-be-made-by-wing-squadron-commanders/ On one hand, I see empowering the lower level commanders, on the other, now we can pump those rookie numbers up. "Goldfein said the Air Force doesn’t have a problem with airmen not getting enough crew rest, and he doesn’t expect the change to result in more waivers being granted." This quote makes no sense. Of course there are no issues because it has to be waived at the flag level. Edited September 20, 2017 by LookieRookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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