What's wrong with the Air Force?

[Boomer6]

Feeding the troll isn’t worth the effort gents.

[disgruntledemployee]

I gots plenty of family in health care.  It was a government mandate via CDC requirements for health care facilities.  Stop trying to dance around the facts.  Quibbling flag thrown.

[Q1Checkride]

On 10/13/2022 at 11:17 PM, disgruntledemployee said:

I was.  It was either get the shot or go unemployed. 

I opted for unemployment.  Like all active duty, as a civilian DoD Contractor I was subject to meeting all CENTCOM Medical requirements in order to deploy OCONUS.  The latest version of those requirements, MOD 16, mandated the CV19 vaccine.  Every single one of my former co-workers who got covid, whether they got it while they were in the US, or got it while deployed....were "vaccinated".   Every.  Single.  One.    

https://www.centcom.mil/Portals/6/MEDICAL/MOD16.pdf

"15.F.7. COVID-19. MUST MEET CDC DEFINITION OF FULLY VACCINATED PRIOR TO DEPARTURE WITH AN FDA AUTHORIZED COVID-19 VACCINE. 15.F.9.A. IS NOT APPLICABLE TO THIS REQUIREMENT. PERSONNEL MUST BE FULLY VACCINATED TO ENTER THE USCENTCOM AOR, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

[Bigred]

1 hour ago, Q1Checkride said:

I PERSONNEL MUST BE FULLY VACCINATED TO ENTER THE USCENTCOM AOR, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

i was stationed in USAFE during the entirety of COVID and sat in on wing and UK level discussion about vaccinated airmen. I can say it was less about having folks vaccinated to prevent illness and more about meeting myriad restrictions on entering various countries. For a while, we only had a few crews who could go  to any country and that was mission impacting.

I say all of that because I would imagine a big part of the CENTCOM rule was so personnel didn’t deploy (assuming the HN even let them in country) and get stuck in mission limiting quarantine because they didn’t meet HN requirements. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Bigred

[FLEA]

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/air-force-strength-now-very-weak-heritage-foundation-report-says/

[Swizzle]

30 minutes ago, FLEA said:

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/air-force-strength-now-very-weak-heritage-foundation-report-says/

That’s a good $0.02

[Biff_T]

29 minutes ago, FLEA said:

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/air-force-strength-now-very-weak-heritage-foundation-report-says/

Anyone around after the pullout (sts) in Vietnam?   I'm curious if this is similar to the status of the military during the late 70s?  

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, Biff_T said:

Anyone around after the pullout (sts) in Vietnam?   I'm curious if this is similar to the status of the military during the late 70s?  

Wasn't the where the term hollow force came from? The absolutely gutted military  that persisted through the 80s after fallout from Vietnam. 

 

It is worth noting the study was conducted by Heritage Foundation. They are not an unbiased source by any means. But its still a data point to consider. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by FLEA

[Q1Checkride]

2 hours ago, Bigred said:

i was stationed in USAFE during the entirety of COVID and sat in on wing and UK level discussion about vaccinated airmen. I can say it was less about having folks vaccinated to prevent illness and more about meeting myriad restrictions on entering various countries. For a while, we only had a few crews who could go  to any country and that was mission impacting.

I say all of that because I would imagine a big part of the CENTCOM rule was so personnel didn’t deploy (assuming the HN even let them in country) and get stuck in mission limiting quarantine because they didn’t meet HN requirements. 

CENTCOM MOD 16 mandating the CV19 vaccine was implemented in January 2022.  MOD 15 dated April 2020 had no such requirement.  Dod mandated vaccination for active duty was already in effect by the time MOD 16 came out.  Imo the CENTCOM CV19 vaccine requirement was added in Jan 2022 to further coerce civilian deployers subject to Biden's Executive Order 14042 from Sept 2021 requiring all Federal workers to get vaccinated.  

Lots of good info here regarding the current status of the E.O. as it pertains to federal workers.

https://www.saferfederalworkforce.gov/new/

 

[ClearedHot]

29 minutes ago, FLEA said:

Wasn't the where the term hollow force came from? The absolutely gutted military  that persisted through the 80s after fallout from Vietnam. 

 

It is worth noting the study was conducted by Heritage Foundation. They are not an unbiased source by any means. But its still a data point to consider. 

Indeed Heritage leans and is funded by conservatives but they do very good research and reports.  

I am seeing calls from members across Congress to replenish stocks we've sent to Ukraine.  I know there is one contract recently awarded to produce more Javelins, but there is a of other things that will be need to be replaced.  As you will see in the Ukraine thread we have even sent them HARMS from the late 90s.

[Bigred]

2 hours ago, Q1Checkride said:

CENTCOM MOD 16 mandating the CV19 vaccine was implemented in January 2022.  MOD 15 dated April 2020 had no such requirement.  Dod mandated vaccination for active duty was already in effect by the time MOD 16 came out.  Imo the CENTCOM CV19 vaccine requirement was added in Jan 2022 to further coerce civilian deployers subject to Biden's Executive Order 14042 from Sept 2021 requiring all Federal workers to get vaccinated.  

Lots of good info here regarding the current status of the E.O. as it pertains to federal workers.

https://www.saferfederalworkforce.gov/new/

 

Learning has occurred, thank you. 

[ClearedHot]

Some dumbassery by the Army as a Commander Bans Army-Issued Warm, Comfy Fleece Jacket as Winter Approaches.  This brings back some wonderful memories from down range and will likely remind some USAF douchenuts that it is time impose some useless directives to screw with deployed folks.

[tac airlifter]

47 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

Some dumbassery by the Army as a Commander Bans Army-Issued Warm, Comfy Fleece Jacket as Winter Approaches.  This brings back some wonderful memories from down range and will like remind some USAF douchenuts that it is time impose some useless directives to screw with deployed folks.

Many wonderful memories indeed.

Informative to watch peers bifurcate into two broad command types:

1. Extreme focus on minutia of irrelevant things, especially uniform regulations, while excluding core topics like mission execution or individual competence in primary job. These are the “mission takes care of itself” types.

2. Extreme focus on team, mission and people but uninterested in “hands in pockets” or “sleeves rolled up” non-lethality impacting nuance.

Type 1 is the dominant breed, although type 2 does exist.  I am naïvely hoping for a collective moment of clarity by senior leaders acknowledging we suffered a humiliating defeat in Afghanistan and maybe that means we should change something about ourselves. Maybe we should focus on winning instead of fashion since the Taliban won wearing a non-uniform collection of sheets, rugs and shitty white Nikes.

[SocialD]

AF:  Here is your issued Boonie hat.  You have to bring it because it's on the mandatory packing list.

 

Also AF (in country):  You can not wear that Boonie hat...here is the memo stating so.  

 

True story.  

 

DOD:  No PT gear in your deployed location, just duty uniforms or civies...don't even bring PT gear.

 

*Guard unit gets moved to new location in AOR to stand up AOG, things are going great...then AD shows up*

 

AD Chief:  why are your people in civies and not AF PT gear?  AFI blah blah blah says duty uniform or pt gear...no civies.

 

Also true story.  

[skibum]

5 minutes ago, SocialD said:

AD Chief E-9:  why are your people in civies and not AF PT gear?  AFI blah blah blah says duty uniform or pt gear...no civies.

FIFY

[ATIS]

3 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

Many wonderful memories indeed.

Informative to watch peers bifurcate into two broad command types:

1. Extreme focus on minutia of irrelevant things, especially uniform regulations, while excluding core topics like mission execution or individual competence in primary job. These are the “mission takes care of itself” types.

2. Extreme focus on team, mission and people but uninterested in “hands in pockets” or “sleeves rolled up” non-lethality impacting nuance.

Type 1 is the dominant breed, although type 2 does exist.  I am naïvely hoping for a collective moment of clarity by senior leaders acknowledging we suffered a humiliating defeat in Afghanistan and maybe that means we should change something about ourselves. Maybe we should focus on winning instead of fashion since the Taliban won wearing a non-uniform collection of sheets, rugs and shitty white Nikes.

Early days of DRACO ('06-'07)...Type 2 for sure.  Saw that start to switch over ~2008.

ATIS

[Biff_T]

6 hours ago, SocialD said:

AF:  Here is your issued Boonie hat.  You have to bring it because it's on the mandatory packing list.

 

Also AF (in country):  You can not wear that Boonie hat...here is the memo stating so.  

 

True story.  

 

DOD:  No PT gear in your deployed location, just duty uniforms or civies...don't even bring PT gear.

 

*Guard unit gets moved to new location in AOR to stand up AOG, things are going great...then AD shows up*

 

AD Chief:  why are your people in civies and not AF PT gear?  AFI blah blah blah says duty uniform or pt gear...no civies.

 

Also true story.  

I got Chiefed for cutting the chin string off of my boonie hat.  This was in 2003 as we were invading Iraq.  I saw another dude get Chiefed for not wearing his ID on his arm as he was eating at the chow hall.  He had just finished flying in Iraq.  This was around March - April 2003 time frame as well.   We were literally invading Iraq and all the Chief cared about was an ID card on an arm.  We were flying every day with min ground time.  Barely had time eat.   I've always wanted to thank that Chief for keeping us safe in the chow hall during those crazy times.  

Edited October 26, 2022 by Biff_T
Afterthought

[Prosuper]

2 hours ago, Biff_T said:

I got Chiefed for cutting the chin string off of my boonie hat.  This was in 2003 as we were invading Iraq.  I saw another dude get Cheifed for not wearing his ID on his arm as he was eating at the chow hall.  He had just finished flying in Iraq.  This was around March - April 2003 time frame as well.   We were literally invading Iraq and all the Chief cared about was an ID card on an arm.  We were flying every day with min ground time.  Barely had time eat.   I've always wanted to thank that Chief for keeping us safe in the chow hall during those crazy times.  

During that time period lots of E-8's and 7's who made sure to go class C for dental or carpal tunnel when it was their turn to deploy. Then they got directed they will deploy or get out and marked down on their board scores for never been deployed in their 20 year career. That is when we saw the rash of guys who brought nothing to the fight but making themselves a pain in ass. Spent their time being uniform haircut police and writing each other bronze stars so they can make E-9.

[StoleIt]

E-9 Stories?

Manas in January: I deployed with no winter outer gear. I'd load up on thermals with just my flight suit. Best thing I eventually got was a summer weight green nomex jacket that they had to mail out to me.

Shockingly, never get E-9'd for that...but I would normally layer up my PTs since it was warmer. I had the recently outdated grey PT sweatshirt that said "Air Force" instead of the new one with the AF logo. I wasn't in the chow hall for more than 60 seconds before I got told I couldn't wear that. Yeap, young LT me wasn't having any of that. Surprised I never got talked to later for basically telling the dude to go ef himself since it was -15*F outside and I wasn't taking off the only warm freaking thing I had on the deployment.

[dream big]

On 10/26/2022 at 7:48 AM, SocialD said:

AF:  Here is your issued Boonie hat.  You have to bring it because it's on the mandatory packing list.

 

Also AF (in country):  You can not wear that Boonie hat...here is the memo stating so.  

 

True story.  

 

DOD:  No PT gear in your deployed location, just duty uniforms or civies...don't even bring PT gear.

 

*Guard unit gets moved to new location in AOR to stand up AOG, things are going great...then AD shows up*

 

AD Chief:  why are your people in civies and not AF PT gear?  AFI blah blah blah says duty uniform or pt gear...no civies.

 

Also true story.  

Please tell me the guard leadership told said AD Zebra Douche to pound sand?

[tac airlifter]

On 10/26/2022 at 11:00 AM, ATIS said:

Early days of DRACO ('06-'07)...Type 2 for sure.  Saw that start to switch over ~2008.

ATIS

DRACO definitely had many type 2 commanders.  Great Americans; the plank holders built a mission focused culture, so well done.  You’d be crazy proud of how the younger teammates made it better.  

[HuggyU2]

26 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

DRACO definitely had many type 2 commanders.  Great Americans; the plank holders built a mission focused culture, so well done.  You’d be crazy proud of how the younger teammates made it better.  

In complete contrast, the MC-12 program was a shit show. I'd pay a king's ransom to have that year of my life back. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by HuggyU2

[ClearedHot]

On 10/26/2022 at 10:00 AM, ATIS said:

Early days of DRACO ('06-'07)...Type 2 for sure.  Saw that start to switch over ~2008.

ATIS

Things changed when they declared themselves SEALs of the sky...

[viper154]

On 10/26/2022 at 11:00 AM, ATIS said:

Early days of DRACO ('06-'07)...Type 2 for sure.  Saw that start to switch over ~2008.

ATIS

Must have been nice. Draco has gone full opposite from that, and honestly most of AFSOC for that matter. 

[SocialD]

14 hours ago, dream big said:

Please tell me the guard leadership told said AD Zebra Douche to pound sand?

 

 

The response was pretty much, "get over it dude, we didn't bring any issued PT gear with us."  Now lets move on to real issues that are actually important, like half the force having the shits because the shitters are leaking into the water that is used to wash/cook our food...  

They also tried to take our rooftop "fanta drink 🥃" and cigar hide out.  MFers....just point the radar dishes the other way! 😂  I think it was Rainman that said war is only fun for the first year.  In our case, it was only fun for about 3 weeks...