Fuzz Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I find it hard to take people seriously who believe they alone are the sole judge of what is and is not simpatico with the Constitution and in turn will "refuse to follow or enforce" laws that don't meet their own standard, court decisions and legislation be damned. Yet you take this administration seriously. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jango220 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Aside from the AWB, one of the proposals that grinds my gears is the potential requirement for a NICS check for all transfers, including private parties face-to-face, in an attempt to get rid of the dreaded "gun show loophole." I'm not necessarily saying in general that it is a bad idea, because there are bad people out there trying to acquire weapons and that does need to be prevented. But the current system of only allowing FFLs to access the database, and subsequently charge people for what amounts to a phone call and a form puts a price tag on what the Constitution says is a right of the people. Now I'm not a big city lawyer type, and many people may disagree with this train of thought, but isn't that along the same line as a poll tax? It may not be the government collecting the fee, but you are still paying someone. There is some precedent with Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections of saying that the public shouldn't be charged for exercising a guaranteed right. Not a direct correlation, but still precedent. One solution could be to open up NICS to the common public, which would not necessarily be a bad idea. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Spike Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 http://www.urbanertslings.com/twopihaform4.html Read the drop downs for pricing info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 By all means continue to fight for decisions like that to be overturned if you really think they are unconstitutional but I find it hard to take people seriously who believe they alone are the sole judge of what is and is not simpatico with the Constitution and in turn will "refuse to follow or enforce" laws that don't meet their own standard, court decisions and legislation be damned. Not saying you're one of those people and honestly no offense intended, it's just I've debated with those types of people before quite extensively. Just like it's hard to take people seriously who believe that asking for an ID when voting (to know then who is actually voting) infringes against somebody's right to vote or constitutes a poll tax. Or that the 14th Amendment, as it was originally constructed (to allow the freed slaves to be citizens), should then rightfully apply to an illegal Mexican woman who is 8.5 months pregnant and then who jumps the border in order to have her child be an American citizen. You mentioned 'those types of people' who will not follow a law because they believe it goes against The Constitution and their Rights?...just like Rosa Parks and other Civil Rights leaders? Everybody is allowed to make their own choices, however, they then must live with the consequences of their decisions...whether the consequences are justified or not. And yes, I did compare our 2nd Amendment Rights to Civil Rights...Rights are Rights. Liberties are Liberties. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hispeed7721 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 http://www.urbanertslings.com/twopihaform4.html Read the drop downs for pricing info. Love this. Now I just wish I could actually buy some! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsplayr Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) Yet you take this administration seriously. Haha...well played I'm not sure the Chief Executive saying he won't enforce certain laws and arguing that the Constitution gives him the discretion to do so is quite the same as average citizen Bob saying "I don't like that law, I'm not following it!" but the point is taken. It's a legalistic argument for the President to make but keep in mind every modern President has made this argument in various ways when dealing with Congressional action they don't approve of (see signing statements et al). Now I'm not a big city lawyer type, and many people may disagree with this train of thought, but isn't that along the same line as a poll tax? It may not be the government collecting the fee, but you are still paying someone. There is some precedent with Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections of saying that the public shouldn't be charged for exercising a guaranteed right. Not a direct correlation, but still precedent. One solution could be to open up NICS to the common public, which would not necessarily be a bad idea. Interesting line of thinking. You might be right, I wonder what a court would think if someone brought a case on those grounds. Not a lawyer, but just in the spirit of debate, they may say that since you're paying for the gun in the first place that it's different than voting since voting is free. They could also make you show that you don't have the means to pay and then waive the fee for only those people al la "If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you before any questioning, if you wish." That gives a person fair access to due process in the legal system, but only applies to people who cannot afford a lawyer. Just throwing things around now but good point to think about, it seems technically possible to open up the database so private citizens could register sales and run background checks (with a yes/no response) for free and maintain people's right to privacy while doing so. You mentioned 'those types of people' who will not follow a law because they believe it goes against The Constitution and their Rights?...just like Rosa Parks and other Civil Rights leaders? Everybody is allowed to make their own choices, however, they then must live with the consequences of their decisions...whether the consequences are justified or not. And yes, I did compare our 2nd Amendment Rights to Civil Rights...Rights are Rights. Liberties are Liberties. You're right that it's a fine line between freedom fighter and terrorist so to speak, and honestly how history judges such a person largely depends on the outcome of their actions. Generally not a path I personally recommend unless you're 100% sure you're in the right and that you're willing to bear the consequences of being wrong and in violation of an acceptable law. Edited January 17, 2013 by nsplayr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsplayr Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 http://www.urbanerts...opihaform4.html From your link: And imagine this!!! It [the Constitution] was written in plain English with No Need for interpretation. That is how intelligent out Founding Fathers were. LoLoLoLoLoL! I guess we can stop all this bickering then! Closing the Supreme Court and all other Federal courts sure will save a lot of money... Their prices were funny though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy pilgrim Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Anyone own or shoot an H&K MR762A1? http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/mr762_general.asp Looks solid, but don't know much about the model. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vetter Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 John Noveske died on 4 January. He made arguably the best barrels and complete AR-15s out there. Thank god his company will survive. I will give them $2000 more when my name comes up on the backorder list. Him him! NSFW! NSFW! NSFW! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72mako Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 On the subject of actual firearms, I know CCW for spouses has been discussed before, but I wanted to get some fresh ideas on good carry options for women. My wife has shot revolver and didn't like it; she was okay with my Glock 23, but I think she'd be more comfortable wearing a 9mm as long as it's not too small and snappy. I've been comparing G26, LC9, M&P9c, Taurus Slim, Kahr CW9, Beretta Nano, and Walther PPS. I know it's a big list, but I want to give her a lot of choice so she can pick what she wants as opposed to what I decide. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickhistory Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 On the subject of actual firearms, I know CCW for spouses has been discussed before, but I wanted to get some fresh ideas on good carry options for women. My wife has shot revolver and didn't like it; she was okay with my Glock 23, but I think she'd be more comfortable wearing a 9mm as long as it's not too small and snappy. I've been comparing G26, LC9, M&P9c, Taurus Slim, Kahr CW9, Beretta Nano, and Walther PPS. I know it's a big list, but I want to give her a lot of choice so she can pick what she wants as opposed to what I decide. Thoughts? Take her to a range with a wide selection and have her test fire them. Most decent ranges should have those you listed or suitable substitutes. A small investment up front before committing to the purchase. And technique only, if you are going to consider the Walther PPS, then the M&P Shield should probably make your list. Ditto for the Walther P99c if you are considering the M&P 9c. I have full size M&P and P99. Both great. I like the Walther better, but it is much price-ier as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Spike Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 From your link: LoLoLoLoLoL! I guess we can stop all this bickering then! Closing the Supreme Court and all other Federal courts sure will save a lot of money... Their prices were funny though. Do you even own a gun? Jesus, shut the fuck up nav. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M2 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 On the subject of actual firearms, I know CCW for spouses has been discussed before, but I wanted to get some fresh ideas on good carry options for women. My wife has shot revolver and didn't like it; she was okay with my Glock 23, but I think she'd be more comfortable wearing a 9mm as long as it's not too small and snappy. I've been comparing G26, LC9, M&P9c, Taurus Slim, Kahr CW9, Beretta Nano, and Walther PPS. I know it's a big list, but I want to give her a lot of choice so she can pick what she wants as opposed to what I decide. Thoughts? I have had the PT709 Slim and am was very impressed by it. It is was the same size as my XD-S, holds held 7+1 rounds, and has had the "Strike Two" capability (essentially an automatic DA re-strike) in that if for some reason the first pull of the trigger doesn't ignite the round (usually because of a hard primer), all you have to do is pull the trigger again (Taurus claims there is a 93% change the round will fire on the second strike) It also has had a slide lock, which many gun newbies prefer (I don't) and a very short trigger reset which I do like (and wish my XD pistols were the same). Recoil is was very managable and no more snappy than my no longer around PT111 Mil-Pro which is was bigger and heavier. But the two best things about Taurus pistols is that they are inexpensive (the Slim can still be found for around $350), all of mine have been were 100% reliable, and they warranty the gun for life no matter if you're the original owner or the seventh owner. The PT111 I got in a swap had a bent lip on one of the mags, I contacted Taurus CS and was sent a form to return it. About a week later, I got a new mag in the mail which has since been lost to the ages. If I weren't such a big .45ACP fanboy or was on a budget, I would have no problems carrying any of my former Taurus pistols (I also have a PT739 TCP) as a primary self-defense weapon if I still had them. I simply prefered the larger round for increased wounding effectiveness and the recoil characteristic of "pushing" more than "snapping" up until such time as every single gun I owned, plus all the ammo I had stored up, fell overboard in the Gulf of Mexico thanks to a freak seagull attack on our boat! Cheers! M2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 the LC9 has an uncomfortablely long trigger pull, feels like the mil. issued berreta on single action everytime. It is slim and compact for a plus side but functionally I wouldnt carry it. I really like the M&P shield, shot both the 9 & 40 versions, and it is a solid weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I have the PT709 Slim Cheers! M2 I thought all of your guns were lost in the Gulf? Did you buy more? If so, how many and where do you keep them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickhistory Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I thought all of your guns were lost in the Gulf? Did you buy more? If so, how many and where do you keep them? Sorry, that is doctor - government - patient privileged information... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M2 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I thought all of your guns were lost in the Gulf? Did you buy more? If so, how many and where do you keep them? Copy. Corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgruntledemployee Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 A) Arguing the opposite POV is enlightening and every good lawyer/debater/pursuader can and should practice that skill. Oh, so your an asshole? Most people that agrue for the sake of arguing are, in my book, big fat stinking shit assholes. B) I'm not actually arguing for something I don't support. I don't believe you based on point A above. But I don't care about your point of view. Just don't go infecting those that serve around you with your spew. Lastly, I like my guns. I enjoy shooting them. Its my "golf." They are also my first and last line of protection, be it bears, coyotes raiding the chicken coop, or thugs. You and your kind don't seem to like that. They live in a bubble where they cannot imagine anyone inflicting harm upon them and thus cannot fathom why I want my rifle to hold up to 30 rounds of 55gr HPBT, or my pistol to hold 15 rounds of 185gr JHP. They see Hollywood portray Joe Citizen as dumb sheep and only the police or the A-Team can protect us. They also think that any self defense encounter should only require 1 shot because that is what TV/movies portray. Lack of proficiency and training, adrenaline, fog of conflict, darkness, etc. all lead to missed shots. Plus, not everyone has a vest or belt with multiple mags on their person at all times, especially in the middle of the night at home. The only guy that is well supplied with ammo is usually the bad guy. So, here are your take-aways. 1. There are bad guys in the world. 2. We don't have a personal police officer to protect us 24/7 from those bad guys. 3. I have the right to protect myself, wife, and kids. If I want 15 rounds in 1 mag to do so, I should be able to. Lastly, the Pres, VP, and any other shouting mouth politician (NY) can parade around all the victims they want. If I'm ever at the pointed end of a gun and I didn't have one to return the favor, I'll either blame myself for not carrying it, or the govt for keeping me from carrying it. I won't blame the police because of response time, I won't blame a mental health law, I won't blame a parent because they couldn't control their evil kid, and I won't blame an inanimate object. Disgustingly, Out! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M2 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 John Noveske died on 4 January. He made arguably the best barrels and complete AR-15s out there. Thank god his company will survive. I will give them $2000 more when my name comes up on the backorder list. Him him! NSFW! NSFW! NSFW! It was all over most major firearms forums that I don't frequent! He built some excellent rifles, but to lose your life because you weren't wearing a seatbelt is a waste... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreudianSlip Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) On the subject of actual firearms, I know CCW for spouses has been discussed before, but I wanted to get some fresh ideas on good carry options for women. My wife has shot revolver and didn't like it; she was okay with my Glock 23, but I think she'd be more comfortable wearing a 9mm as long as it's not too small and snappy. I've been comparing G26, LC9, M&P9c, Taurus Slim, Kahr CW9, Beretta Nano, and Walther PPS. I know it's a big list, but I want to give her a lot of choice so she can pick what she wants as opposed to what I decide. Thoughts? I carry a CW9 (IWB usually) but my wife went from a LCP (hard trigger pull) to a Kahr CM9. I took 200+ rounds to make it reliable so buyer beware, but now she loves it. I made a kydex holster for her but she usually carries it in a pocket holster in a purse: http://www.happycow....r-hip-bags.html She and I both agree the CM9 is less snappy and harsh the the .380 LCP.Outgoing I know, but the SecDef weighing in: http://www.voanews.c...ol/1585735.html Edited January 17, 2013 by FreudianSlip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoo Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) I'll either blame myself for not carrying it, or the govt for keeping me from carrying it. Yeah, I'd have to say the former is a much more likely scenario, for me at least. Edited January 17, 2013 by Spoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HU&W Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I carry a CW9 (IWB usually) but my wife went from a LCP (hard trigger pull) to a Kahr CM9. I took 200+ rounds to make it reliable so buyer beware, but now she loves it. I made a kydex holster for her but she usually carries it in a pocket holster in a purse: http://www.happycow....r-hip-bags.html She and I both agree the CM9 is less snappy and harsh the the .380 LCP. Outgoing I know, but the SecDef weighing in: http://www.voanews.c...ol/1585735.html From the article. Panetta told the troops he is a believer in the Second Amendment, which gives Americans the right to own guns, and that he does not think Obama's proposals are an attack on that right. “I am a hunter. I go out. I've gone duck hunting since I was 10 years old, and I love to hunt," Panetta said. "I love to share that joy with my kids, but for the life of me I don't know why people have to have assault weapons.” Perhaps if we had ranges with supplied rifles/ammo on military bases where I could practice at will, I wouldn't want to have a "home version" of an M4 to practice with. 90 rounds once every 3-5 years is insufficient preparation should you ever actually need it downrange. Perhaps everyone won't need it someday, but I for one like to be prepared. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raimius Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Heck, big AF generously provided 40 rounds during basic. That was the last time big AF told me to train with real bullets, and it was over 6 years ago. Pathetic, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreudianSlip Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) I prefer a pistol over a rifle because I shoot pistol more often and am more proficient, and also for ease of quick access. I'm not super-knowledgable on ballistics but good food for thought on 9mm vs .223. She agrees with me And she is a great spokewoman for the AR platform. Edited January 17, 2013 by FreudianSlip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFM this Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Perhaps if we had ranges with supplied rifles/ammo on military bases where I could practice at will, I wouldn't want to have a "home version" of an M4 to practice with. 90 rounds once every 3-5 years is insufficient preparation should you ever actually need it downrange. Perhaps everyone won't need it someday, but I for one like to be prepared. MWR used to operate a recreational range on Camp Foster when I was stationed on Okinawa. Had a ton of rentals from a MkII to a .44. Between that and the scuba diving, that assignment rocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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