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Hmm.... Newbie corrects a homophone on a 10-month old post. Hell of a first post. I'm sure you'll have lots to contribute on your second post. Thanks for signing up here at Baseops.net!

I did exactly what Hoss said. Same exact situation (VPS vs. PNS). I don't remember the exact disparity in prices the RA was looking for, but bottom line took a car service there and back...cost the government $150 more in the end. The wasted time was worth it to see his reaction when he realized I had fucked the system, but there was nothing he could do as it was a legally reimbursable expense. I don't think such shenanigans happened again, at least that I'm aware of.

BFM is a waste too, when is the last time anyone even got a gun kill...

There are more productive and cheaper ways to teach these skills. I heard the same objections when we took fix to fix out of the T-38 syllabus or when the USAF went from a twin jet T-37 to a single turboprop T-6. The first time I did a SFO was after I had 2,700 in military jets...somehow I managed to get by for 15 years without that training. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

Fixed.

Ok, I'll give you a real answer, at least to the best of my somewhat dated knowledge. ART: Air Reserve Technician in the Reserves, or just Technician in the Guard. Salaried GS-XX (with comp time, etc) for the bulk of their paycheck; part-time military member for the other part of their paycheck. Es are usually GS-6-9; Os are usually 12-13, although I've lost track with the latest and greatest attempts to attract/retain people. Typically fulfills the basic squadron functions from ARMS to Airfield Ops to DOV to DOT. My last OG was a Technician. They are civilians in uniform M-F 0730-1630, not counting gym time, lunch time, etc. 😉 They transform into military personnel (E-3, O-4, etc) after hours if they fly that night, sit SOF, whatever. In that status, they get paid the same as the part-timers: 1x 4hr block is a period. Their status on any given day is way more complex than I have time for here. Sometimes they can fly in civilian status, sometimes they can't. Sometimes they take mil leave, sometimes they take leave without pay, sometimes they're flying after their ART day ends. Doesn't matter unless you're filling out the 781 or you're one of them. Can't get Tricare unlike every other part-time military service member, has an expensive federal pension plan, and can legally work some crazy long days. Typically must be a part-time military member to hold the ART job, although there are a few Technician only people floating around. They can work until 50-something as a GS, then they can retire and end up with a federal FERS pension and their DOD Guard/Reserve pension. AGR: Full time, salaried, military member. They're never a GS-anything, always a 1 on the 781. They get Tricare. They accrue years just like the active dude. They can PCS and go to school in res, but that varies between Guard/Reserve and I'm sure local norms. Certainly not the same PCS lifestyle as AD. My last ops squadron had ZERO AGR pilots. WG/CC had given all the AGR spots to MSG/MDG/etc. I've heard FWs have more AGRs for their alert missions. AGRs count against Congressional end strength, which is why it's not as easy as it should be to convert all ARTs to AGRs. They can retire at 20 years with check-of-the-month and Tricare just like the AD dude. They have a binding ADSC-like contract that historically has been easy to curtail. WOM is that might be getting harder as there are fewer guys lined up to take that AGR position. Administratively very similar to AD, but culturally as different as the unit they're in. AD: What can I say? Salaried, Tricare, will PCS, will deploy a lot, will probably try to go to Guard or Reserve at the end of their ADSC. All 3 are hemorrhaging people. None of the 3 can compete on salary or time off work with the airlines. Obviously if you want to live in NOLA and go fast, LAANG is a better fit than commuting to the MD-80 in DFW.

I’ll argue that very few airframes need the EM skills one may learn from an ELP. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing to learn, just that I think time could be spent elsewhere in T-6’s where most students haven’t tracked or will not go to planes that require superb EM skills. As for BFM...Some of the guys jonesing for BFM like they are prepping for the Korean War I’ve flown with could probably spend that time working on improving skills where they are deficient on current and more probable mission sets....and they are deficient. Not popular opinions I know. I did both an ELP and BFM yesterday...I could probably use a high intensity A/G scenario instead. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

The ART is a CSO, the AGR already has a line number, and the AD guy wishes he did. 😂

Wouldn't that really depend on the crew chief?

YGBSM. "The greatest Air Force in the world"... and we cannot manage to teach educated professional aviators this skill.

A colleague who is F22 pilot for the Virginia ANG had honor of flying a Phantom at Eglin. He flew the aircraft we had at the reunion. Here is the F-22 pilot’s thoughts on flying the F-4: I flew your jet a couple days ago (see attached). I had a little trouble getting the engines started, so I climbed out and shoveled some more coal in the back; after that she fired right up. Ground ops were uneventful, although I couldn’t figure out why the cockpit smelled like body odor, Jack Daniels and cigars…and that was BEFORE I got in it! By the way, what’s with the no slip crap on top of the intakes, it’s like you have permanent icing conditions due to that spray on rhino truck bed liner on top of the aircraft. It’s no wonder you needed so much coal (I mean thrust) to get airborne. Take off scared the sh*t out of me. I lit the burners at brick one and 2 miles and 45 minutes later we were ready to rotate. After barely clearing the tree tops, the gear came up and I climbed away at a VERY impressive 2 degrees nose high. In case you don’t remember, “Trim” is your friend in the F-4 (pretty sure it’s also a good friend on the ground too). Once I got her up to speed and a moderate altitude, we were ready for the G-Ex. Two G-turn’s later and I’m sinking like a rock…the F-4’s energy seems to bleed like Holyfield’s ear in the Tyson fight! After the G-Ex it was time to do a little Advanced Handling Characteristics (AHC) and by “advanced handling” I mean the same crap the Wright Brothers were doing back in 1903…just trying to keep it airborne. The jet flies much like my old man’s station wagon used to drive…You turn the wheel (push the stick) a few inches and nothing happens, then all of a sudden the steering kicks in, inertia takes over, and all HELL breaks loose! You’re pretty much along for the ride at that point and only gravity has a real say in your lift vector placement. “Checking 6” was really quite easy…. because you CAN’T! Scratch that off the list of “Sh*t I need to do to keep myself alive in combat today”. Breathing, however, was surprisingly easy in the F-4 when compared to that of the F-22 (thank you Lockheed)…LOX works, who knew! I think I may have burned my legs a bit from the steam pouring out from behind the gauges. Where are my 6 mini-flat screen TV’s, I’m lost without my HD jet displays (editors note: actually, I’m an analog guy stuck in a digital world too…I really do like the “steam driven” gauges). After the AHC, I decided to take her up high and do a supersonic MACH run, and by “high” I mean “where never lark nor even eagle flew”; but not much higher, a foot or two maybe. I mean, we weren’t up there high-fiving Jesus like we do in the Raptor, but it was respectable. It only took me the width of the Gulf of Mexico to get the thing turned around while above the Mach. After the Mach run we dropped to the deck and did 600 kts at 500’; a ratllin’ and shakin’ we will go…. I though all the rivets were going to pop out. Reference previous station wagon analogy! Very quickly we were out of gas and headed home. As I brought the jet up initial, I couldn’t help but think that the boys who took this thing into combat had to have some pretty big brass you know whats! My first F-4 landing was a little rough; sub-standard really by Air Force measure… but apparently “best seen to date” according to the Navy guys. Did you know that there’s no such thing as an aerobrake in the F-4? As soon as the main gear touches down, the nose comes slamming down to the runway with all the force of a meteor hitting the earth….I guess the F-4 aerobrake technique is to dissipate energy via denting the runway. Despite an apparently “decent” landing, stopping was a whole different problem. I reached down and pulled the handle to deploy the drogue chute…at which point a large solid mass of canvas, 550 cord, metal weights and cables fell out and began bouncing down the runway; chasing me like a lost puppy and FOD’ing out the whole runway. Perfect. I mashed down on the breaks and I’m pretty sure at this point the jet just started laughing at me. Why didn’t you warn me that I needed a shuttle landing strip to get this damn thing stopped? All kidding aside, VERY COOL jet! Must have been a kick to fly back when you were in Vietnam! Just kidding!

What do you know about a engine not working...or 4.... 😉

@Sopwith Camel FWIW I have a friend who got picked up as an alternate at a fighter unit with around the same scores and just a PPL. He eventually got moved up as a primary after someone dropped months later and is now going to UPT. I will echo what has been said on these forums many times by applicants and pilots alike who've gone through this process - go and visit, be a good dude, have a good attitude! I haven't been selected myself but I've been applying for about a year - if you have any questions I'll do my best to help - feel free to DM. Best of luck!

ELPs also teach decision making skills in an emergency scenario. The ability to analyze your energy state and decide if you can make high key, low key, or if you need to bail out. It’s been a bit, but I remember practicing this in the sim and having to go through it many times in stand up and table top EPs (turn climb clean check). This decision making process works better when you have experience with the maneuver. Do they even teach it in the Sim or was it axed completely? If so, it sure makes your analyzing and decision making much easier - “EJECTION HANDLE - PULL” Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I hear that for every Boldface/Ops Limits you correctly accomplish and submit, they waive an hour.

Doing a fix to fix is not the same as fundamentally learning energy management skills real time. Apples to oranges comparison. Dudes right off the street only benefit and increase their airmanship leaning how to fly ELPs.

It’s basic energy management/stick and rudder skills. Even if they never use it lots to be gained teaching them to off the street 0 hour aviators

PM me with your information and I'll look into it (if you want me to).

Columbus Commanders (yup throwing them under the bus) argued that we were wasting too much time on ELP's and that the T-6 was reliable enough not to warrant it, and since we weren't teaching ELP's, the students would learn regular patterns faster, therefore fewer sorties, faster production, and OPR strats out the a$$. They also argued that not enough aircraft were single engine for the cost/benefit for each student to learn (I disagree since if you don't teach respect and proper handling of EP's early on you set the student up with with the wrong mindset from the get go). Supposedly the Viper community was okay with this as I was told by my leadership that "it's not how you fly it in the Viper." Which is BS, it's the same damn thing but now you base your altitudes off of fuel/stores weight. TL:DR-AF wanted to trim sorties and determined they'd rather lose a few aircraft than teach people to be safe.

It’s better than coming on the brakes.

Yes, I hear the U-2 program is pretty terrible 😂.

You probably critique a woman’s hair when she’s topless...

Nailed it! Hitters ONLY apply. I want the guys who want it for the mission not because it sounds cool or the location is great. I'd prefer there be no focus other than building a sustainable cadre for the future of the program. The last thing you want to happen with this program is it gets turned into some kind of goddamn flying club and screws the pooch for being a sustainable program well into the future. In a perfect world you'd put it at an austere location (outfield of Eglin...WAY out) and build a bunch of steely eyed killers to carry the reputation well into the future. Who knows... Cooter

Take a cab the 90 miles to Pensacola. Round trip. Make it more expensive and kill off the good idea fairy.

Off topic, not a Jack Ryan, but I always thought Red Storm Rising would make a good single season TV series

It depends.

It's almost that time of year again! 😋

Didn't have a clue back then...young, dumb, and just having fun...many friends bagged one or more in Her. Now just mentoring new owner/operators in their business jets. And looking over an old -1...my how things have changed. But I still miss Her.

"Oh I had to tap min burner."..boo hoo. Brother try a gunpig in AFG during the summer, hookup at 10K AGL and Toboggan down to 2K to get your gas.

No mention of getting caught out by adverse yaw? He obviously didn't do it 'right'.

It's part of the SUPT syllabus reduction (ENJJPT remains unchanged). ELPs are no longer on checkrides and are now more of a demo item.