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1,000 Retired Pilots Can Be Recalled to Active Duty

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I think the whole "you will get punished for talking about something other than the Air Force" has one merit, in the fact that it insulates the young punks from becoming too salty too quickly. HOWEVER - I 100% disagree with it. That is a prime example of the AF treating the symptoms, not the problem.  You can place a gag order (sts) or use ground evals to "punish" dudes talking about getting out, or you can fix the problem at the source and make it so there isn't such a monstrous disparity between AF and life outside (airlines or otherwise). 

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10 hours ago, flyusaf83 said:

I’m not saying you’re wrong about Liquid because I don’t know him, but the attitude he showed with those posts was the same kind of toxic BS that is driving people out in droves.  Maybe he is a “good dude”, but I sure wouldn’t want him as my boss.  There are a lot of “good dudes” that the AF absolutely ruins by convincing them to do what it takes to be part of the management club.  That’s when they stop living in reality and say and do shit that drives us crazy (N/N checkrides for talking about airlines).  I hear the crap that leaders say, and I just say to myself that I will never be able to do that with a straight face.  But these “good dudes” sold their souls to the devil and actually believe the shit that comes out of their mouths. It’s like they have no idea how we see right through the bullshit.

And just what in the hell is with the AF’s irrational fear of the airlines? So many managers don’t want to acknowledge the airlines, or come up with some bullshit to tell us about why it would be such a bad idea to be an airline pilot.  They imply we aren’t patriotic if we we discuss being an airline pilot.  I think they’d rather me talk about joining ISIS. Instead of ripping on or ignoring the airlines, freaking show me some positive change. Show me just why in the hell should I stay in the AF. 

 

Super shack!

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8 hours ago, RTB said:

I'm not advocating N/N ground evals...but as a young wingman back during a previous hiring wave, it totally sucked showing up to a squadron full of dudes talking about bailing to the airlines.  I had finally 'arrived' at my dream job in a fighter squadron and it was pretty depressing to have many of the experienced dudes I looked up to talking about airline apps, lifetime pay comparison spreadsheets, and ATP prep courses around the squadron.  Not sure what happened (it was out of my view) but about a month after I got there our leadership at the time put the hammer down and airline discussions pretty much stopped, at least overtly, and were once again replaced by the typical BFM and ACM debates.  It was a MUCH better squadron environment after that and all of us that were eager to do the job were thankful someone in leadership above us had done something to change the dynamic.

So I guess my point is, rampant airline talk can be a real drag for the young guys who either have many years to go before they could bail or are fired up about learning their job, or both.

Full disclosure: I was probably guilty in my later years of doing the same shit (talking airline apps) in the squadron.

Why can’t the discussion about airlines be structured as an alternate development path for when the Air Force decides to do the next RIF? Aren’t we suppose to be in the business of developing rounded individuals who can equally be the next leaders of our organization or the next guy telling us the weather when we land in ATL?

In the last 10 years the AF had two RIF boards, kicked out a bunch of guys at 17 years and paid dudes to leave. 

Can’t we have a happy medium where we can actively talk about the elephant in the room to a point it does not distract from being a combat effective aviator ? Or are we incapable of that task?

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51 minutes ago, 1111 said:

Aren’t we suppose to be in the business of developing rounded individuals who can equally be the next leaders of our organization or the next guy telling us the weather when we land in ATL?

Can’t we have a happy medium where we can actively talk about the elephant in the room to a point it does not distract from being a combat effective aviator ?

Or are we incapable of that task?

To answer in order:

1) Yes, we are. Let us not forget that while everyone says we are "officers first, pilots second" we are actually "Americans first, officers second, pilots third". It only pays back dividends to the country as a whole to have well-rounded, educated people in the citizenry; mil, retired/separated,  or otherwise. That was the reason behind the original Montgomery GI Bill. 

2) We should be able to. 

3) We are incapable of that, given the current leadership model under which we operate. 

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1 hour ago, 1111 said:

Aren’t we suppose to be in the business of developing rounded individuals who can equally be the next leaders of our organization or the next guy telling us the weather when we land in ATL?

No, we're supposed to be in the business of killing people and breaking their shit.  If the AF (and the nation) hadn't lost that focus years ago, they wouldn't have to worry about WTF D, U, A, S, F, and U are doing.  Too bad Blue is more worried about breastfeeding in uniform, fun runs, Asian Islander month, training the untrainable, and zebra stripe dot.

Edited by nunya
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10 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

i don't know liquid either...

that being said "good dude" != good leader.

if a guy is giving N/N checkrides out to pilots talking about airlines he's a fucking cocksucker  and should have his Q code pulled.

Excellent Deadwood usage.

Swearengen.jpg

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11 hours ago, flyusaf83 said:

I’m not saying you’re wrong about Liquid because I don’t know him, but the attitude he showed with those posts was the same kind of toxic BS that is driving people out in droves.  Maybe he is a “good dude”, but I sure wouldn’t want him as my boss.  There are a lot of “good dudes” that the AF absolutely ruins by convincing them to do what it takes to be part of the management club.  That’s when they stop living in reality and say and do shit that drives us crazy (N/N checkrides for talking about airlines).  I hear the crap that leaders say, and I just say to myself that I will never be able to do that with a straight face.  But these “good dudes” sold their souls to the devil and actually believe the shit that comes out of their mouths. It’s like they have no idea how we see right through the bullshit.

All valid points and I won't even pretend to defend his comments.  I would not have threatened no-notice check rides, not the place on a DOV guy.  On the other hand if I was the SQ/CC and my IPs were sitting in a circle talking about the airlines at work I would justifiably not be happy.  We all bitch about the bullshit queep that keeps us from flying and focusing on the mission, shouldn't that apply both ways? 

"Good Dude" in this context...really means good leader.  I know many people on here know who he is, but I will still attempt to preserve his anonymity. Let me give some examples of what I am talking about.  He is MOST certainly NOT part of the management club, on multiple occasions I saw him say no to STUPID shit from above.  The Command wanted to deploy someone to a useless position...NO, he stopped it and took the heat.  Being told his wing needed to perform some dopey make-busy tasks on a weekend..."Fuck NO" was his answer.  Performing and tracking bullshit queep tasks that had nothing to do with mission..."Don't fucking do it."  He hates the career model and is straight up PROUD he was never an exec and never did a pentagon tour.  One final example, THREE days after met him he pushed a set of G Series orders for the Wing across the desk and told me he was leaving for almost a month.  The Wing ORI was going to kick off four days later so I asked "what is your guidance"...his response was "don't fuck it up...they know what to do."  He didn't call during the ORI, no second guessing, no micro-managing...zip.  When it was over I called him and he said how did it go?  I answered "we got an Excellent" and he replied "those fuckers should have given us an Outstanding...anyway here is what is happening down range."

For those who think we need the second coming of Robin Olds (and we do), please remember Olds was fucking his wing secretary and was not exactly easy on those around him when he was drinking which was often...even the great ones have warts. 

I am sure none of this is translating, I am too close and truly respect the guy.  I have other stories I can't share.  Also, if he came back to read this he would be pissed to see me defend him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I think Fingers is actually trying to address the combat readiness of the force.

 

 

Too bad fingers is a giant douche with nothing but his own interests at heart. Which aren’t the same as ours.

 

Watch. You’ll see. He’s done talking about making quality of life and military pay better. He is going to go straight to stop loss and not bat an eye. He doesn’t care about us. He doesn’t even care what’s been promised us.

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21 hours ago, jonlbs said:

That 10,000 gallon douche!  Just to make sure he sees this when he google gargles his own name, john venable.  Hell, was probably pointing at his patches as he made up numbers for how much it cost to make himself in that article.

This line is so good, it's an instant classic: " and enticing some of these “graybeards” to return will be relatively easy. "

I'll make it easy, just follow my list.

1. I pick where to serve. Easy.

2. I fly. And I pick when.  Easy.

3. I will have an office and beer will be in the fridge at all times.  So Easy.

4. No PT test, ever!  Insanely Easy!

5. No deployment, ever!  Easy.

6. I keep 100% of my retirement pay.  I'm sure there's a way.

7. My salary will be 100% tax free and will be based on my monthly base pay at my airline at my seniority number.  Act of Congress, if well motivated, is possible.

8. I can leave whenever I want.  Easy.

9. No OPRs, 1206s, CBTs, etc (code for anything else/qweepy I don't want to do).  Easy.

10. 36-2903 is waived.  I get to wear whatever uniform items I have in my closet in whatever combination I come up with.  I'm thinking the old white "blues" service coat with all, some, or no medals, V-neck t-shirt in brown, 1st generation PT shorts in my regular size (alright, XXXL will keep the creeper sweepers away), and black boots with white socks.  Hat will be an "operator" cap!  If I decide to wear one.  Easy, just close your eyes when I walk by the front office. 

11.  On wingman day, I will hold council in my office where we will talk about beer, gambling, flying, airlines, airline apps, what's hot, guns, beer and guns, tell stories and other fun shit.  Easiest thing in the world. 

12. Once a month, I will lead a formation low level to some place cool.  Jan - St Croix.  Feb - Wherever they grow cheap roses.  Mar - any NCAA tournament city, but just for 1 night; don't want to get it too much trouble.  Apr - A Florida Spring Break hot spot.  May - Cali.  Jun - Vancouver. Jul - Anchorage. Aug - St Johns. Sep - Dealers choice. Oct - the best Octoberfest in America. Nov - Vegas. Dec - Hawaii (I'm sure there's a JAATT that needs filling out there).  Easy.

So in summary, compensation scale tipped towards AF, all bullshit removed, and AF QOL improved.  Easy.

Out

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At least he didn’t stand in front of 30+ TacAir IPs who grew up on six or seven sorties a month and proceed to state that the AIM-120 was one of the biggest problems facing USMC aviation like our head of aviation did.

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36 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

At least he didn’t stand in front of 30+ TacAir IPs who grew up on six or seven sorties a month and proceed to state that the AIM-120 was one of the biggest problems facing USMC aviation like our head of aviation did.

Did he scroll 16.9 minutes into Top Gun and start quoting? 

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42 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

At least he didn’t stand in front of 30+ TacAir IPs who grew up on six or seven sorties a month and proceed to state that the AIM-120 was one of the biggest problems facing USMC aviation like our head of aviation did.

I'm at a loss why it would be a problem?

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5 minutes ago, matmacwc said:

I'm at a loss why it would be a problem?

So were we.

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2 hours ago, gearpig said:

Getting "some" to return probably would be easy. The rest of the article seems reasonable.

Is there more to this guy? Because I don't get the hate.

Almost exactly what I was going to post.  

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1 hour ago, VMFA187 said:

At least he didn’t stand in front of 30+ TacAir IPs who grew up on six or seven sorties a month and proceed to state that the AIM-120 was one of the biggest problems facing USMC aviation like our head of aviation did.

Is the AIM-54 making a comeback?

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59 minutes ago, matmacwc said:

He'd rather your focus be on CAS?

No, he alluded to other threat nations putting out A/A missiles that are more advanced than what we currently have.

We won't get into the validity of the statement. But if higher believes that is one of the "biggest" issues facing Marine aviation, our leadership is severely misguided.

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3 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

No, he alluded to other threat nations putting out A/A missiles that are more advanced than what we currently have.

We won't get into the validity of the statement. But if higher believes that is one of the "biggest" issues facing Marine aviation, our leadership is severely misguided.

I guess we should curl up in a ball and cry for mama.  WTFO.

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4 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

No, he alluded to other threat nations putting out A/A missiles that are more advanced than what we currently have.

Watch to see what board of directors that guy ends up on...

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On 11/10/2017 at 10:03 PM, RTB said:

How do these people still keep progressing when everyone can see how bad they are?  Rhetorical question but it drives me crazy. So many good leaders forced out along the way. 

Because as much as some leadership preach about 360 degree feedback, none of it exists in the USAF.  You are promoted purely on how well your OPRs and PRFs are written in the eyes of those above you who were successful in that same process.  Heck, even with the 100% to Major our Wing King still made everyone go through the PRF process; that’s how much they value paperwork.  So, in essence, you can be a class A D-bag and still get promoted really far. 

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On 11/12/2017 at 10:51 AM, dream big said:

Because as much as some leadership preach about 360 degree feedback, none of it exists in the USAF.  You are promoted purely on how well your OPRs and PRFs are written in the eyes of those above you who were successful in that same process.  Heck, even with the 100% to Major our Wing King still made everyone go through the PRF process; that’s how much they value paperwork.  So, in essence, you can be a class A D-bag and still get promoted really far. 

Yeah, the 360 degree feedback is bullshit too.  The currently douchebag that’s the 89th Command Chief had to do the 360 degree feedback and sent it to his “friends” to give him feedback.  Surprisingly enough no one that either didn’t like him, had worked for him, never received it.  Everything can be skewed in life and the Air Force would rather have professional “skewers of data” than addressing actual problems and telling douche bags they can’t be leaders.

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On November 12, 2017 at 11:51 AM, dream big said:

 Heck, even with the 100% to Major our Wing King still made everyone go through the PRF process; that’s how much they value paperwork. 

That's because the PRFs suspense date to the Wings were before the CSAF/Air Staff policy release. 

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2 hours ago, HeloDude said:

That's because the PRFs suspense date to the Wings were before the CSAF/Air Staff policy release. 

Yep.  Everyone locally here at base x was pissed that CSAF/HAF dropped that change so late.  The FS/OG/WG had already worked, routed, and rack/stacked the PRFs for the year.

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1 hour ago, Ram said:

Yep.  Everyone locally here at base x was pissed that CSAF/HAF dropped that change so late.  The FS/OG/WG had already worked, routed, and rack/stacked the PRFs for the year.

41j2cgEKFbL.jpg

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19 hours ago, Ram said:

The FS/OG/WG had already worked, routed, and rack/stacked the PRFs for the year.

Just a curious question with regards to the new promotion policy to Major. If they routed and rack/stacked PRFs up to your WG/CC, did the WG/CC give feedback to every dude on how those PRFs would have departed the wing?

Or was it “good game, nothing more to see here” as the PRFs were tossed?

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