E-7A Wedgetail

[Clark Griswold]

3 minutes ago, LookieRookie said:

It’s not about smaller plane, biz jets can fly higher and faster which makes their sensors more useful.

Also, Boeing is terrible at producing aircraft now.

Copy and understand, I believe @ClearedHot mentioned in this or another thread the Israeli AWACS based on the G550, same platform for the new Compass Call, I could see that as a selling point for logistical support and their jet has some very high end capes

2 minutes ago, brabus said:

Those are all excellent reasons to NOT stick with the E-7 shitshow. E-7 would have been nice about 15 years ago, but obviously we’re well past that and it’s very sensible to drop that hot pile of garbage (from a programatic POV) in favor of better tech.

True, I’m just thinking the politics factor can trump the military capabilities factor here if not addressed 

Just as emotions often over power logic, it has to be considered 

https://breakingdefense.com/2025/06/air-force-cancels-e-7-wedgetail-citing-survivability-and-cost-concerns/

From the article:

During a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing this morning, Sen. Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska, raised concerns that the E-2D might not be able to match the E-7’s capabilities, and cited prior statements from Vice Chief of Space Operations Gen. Michael Guetlein that a space-based capability wouldn’t be available until the early 2030s.

“We just haven’t heard, in my view, sufficient justification for the cancellation of such a critical program,” Murkowski told Air Force leaders.

Jobs, money, prestige, etc… politicians want their constituents to have their fair share plus whatever else they can get.  I want my Congressman to do the same, I think trying to meet her plus other politicians half way on this while developing the orbital systems is the best way.

 

[brabus]

The E2D is great for current day; weird, a senator doesn’t know shit. 

[Clark Griswold]

The E2D is great for current day; weird, a senator doesn’t know shit. 

Nor sure her motives, could be the economic footprint of supporting a smaller platform or could be legit performance concerns

Didn’t catch all of her comments but if I were a staffer or mil liaison working for her, I’d make the argument for an E-7 not just for the combat C2 mission but for long range patrol and monitoring, peacetime to contingency planning. Air and surface surveillance.

The Arctic, maritime regions and maintaining a watch on long range patrols and joint ops occasionally being conducted by the Russians & Chinese are all examples of how not just in WW Taiwan how a long range multi sensor capable platform fits into the team.

Just dreaming and if money grew on trees…
Develop a MAX 7 based platform, the MAX is not a NEO but worth it for domestic considerations.
Referencing the defunct E-10 project, develop a GMTI capability plus long range EO/IR.
Develop this with the Israelis, leveraging their capes into a domestic modern platform (if not using the G550 based platforms)


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[Lawman]

It’s not about smaller plane, biz jets can fly higher and faster which makes their sensors more useful.
 
Also, Boeing is terrible at producing aircraft now.

Life is about trade offs.

The easy counter to this is what kind of ground footprint required when we are talking about expeditionary basing.


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[ClearedHot]

[brabus]

I think the big hump for many to get over is the significant paradigm shift - peer warfare has rapidly changed and airborne C2, as we know it, is essentially obsolete (at least until we destroy a lot of adversary capabilities). So, we’ve had to look at other means to gain battle space awareness, ITW, data passage, etc. So again, yawn to the E7 getting shitcanned; G550s (or similar) to support the non-peer stuff.

[Majestik Møøse]

On 6/24/2025 at 8:19 PM, brabus said:

@Majestik Møøse I’m very confident in my assessment (and it’s not “mine” per se, but rather I concur with it). Though perhaps we are both thinking of different scenarios/vignettes, which is certainly possible and could drive either position being valid. But, we’re not going to be able to sort that out on the internet. To be clear, I’m not anti-manned ISR, and it will continue to play a role, but there are several scenarios where it has zero game, at least for the foreseeable future (and probably doesn’t make sense to change that vs. putting efforts into UAS, AI, Space, Cyber, etc.)

Nope, we’re thinking of the exact same scenarios. I understand how to get sensors in range to accomplish jobs while staying within ALR if it’s aggressive enough.

You keep referencing WW3; does your scenario stop short of the point where multiple orbits have been attacked with nuclear weapons? If America has built an asymmetric (but vulnerable) advantage in space and is using it to attack, only economic interests are stopping a nuclear-armed dictator from letting them fly.

Personally, I don’t believe in nuclear winter or EMP that much and plan on fighting after the exchange. I hope we still have something PMC with a chair in it or else I’ll be relegated to third string KP duty.

China also believes in non-LO airplanes; that’s why they keep building them. They also have a luxury we don’t: they can actually build stuff on timelines and deliver capabilities before they’re OBE. The real issue with the E-7 is that regardless of funding we still wouldn’t deliver one (and it’s just one) for 2 more years still even though it’s a 20 year old existing jet.

[brabus]

56 minutes ago, Majestik Møøse said:

I understand how to get sensors in range to accomplish jobs while staying within ALR

So do I, but it doesn’t involve E-3, E-2D, E-7, etc. If you think it does, you are unfortunately missing some valuable information, context, experience, and overall understanding gleaned from all of that. That’s not a spear, it’s just a pragmatic “you don’t know what you don’t know,” and I’ll leave it at that. 
 

1 hour ago, Majestik Møøse said:

The real issue with the E-7 is that regardless of funding we still wouldn’t deliver one (and it’s just one) for 2 more years still even though it’s a 20 year old existing jet.

That we agree on. Acquisitions process has been fucked for a long time.