40 minutes ago, Prozac said:

It’s a vaccine. It’s not gene therapy (not even close).

Except its not, at least the way Webster's dictionary defined the word "vaccine" until a week or so ago. 

I guess its a valid to change the definitions of words so they meet your intent. The left has been doing it for years for social justice, why not this?

5 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

Except its not, at least the way Webster's dictionary defined the word "vaccine" until a week or so ago. 

I guess its a valid to change the definitions of words so they meet your intent. The left has been doing it for years for social justice, why not this?

More semantics. The flu vaccine that we all agreed was, in fact, a vaccine for years wouldn’t have fit the definition either. 

12 minutes ago, Prozac said:

More semantics. The flu vaccine that we all agreed was, in fact, a vaccine for years wouldn’t have fit the definition either. 

Why was the definition just changed? Isn't that odd? Are you cool with changing the definitions of words just to fit a certain viewpoints narrative? Seems you are and that it's just "semantics."

Does Webster’s definition change what the vaccines do? Does it matter at all? The vaccines (or prophylactics or whatever you want to call them) we’re effective before the definition change and they are effective now. If I had to guess, the definition was probably changed because people were acting like a bunch of eight year olds, stomping up and down and saying “Nuh-uh! Websters says it isn’t a vaccine so you can’t make me take it!” Regardless, it makes no difference to me how you define vaccine, or what you call these shots. The only thing that matters is that they’re an effective tool in the quiver when it comes to fighting Covid. 

25 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Does it matter at all?

Yes.

28 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Does Webster’s definition change what the vaccines do? Does it matter at all? The vaccines (or prophylactics or whatever you want to call them) we’re effective before the definition change and they are effective now. If I had to guess, the definition was probably changed because people were acting like a bunch of eight year olds, stomping up and down and saying “Nuh-uh! Websters says it isn’t a vaccine so you can’t make me take it!” Regardless, it makes no difference to me how you define vaccine, or what you call these shots. The only thing that matters is that they’re an effective tool in the quiver when it comes to fighting Covid. 

Call them effective if you want, but they're not required for a vast majority of the population and their use puts that majority at risk for other factors they wouldn't have to face if not being coerced to take a "vaccine" that they don't need. 

There are a lot of other "effective tools in the quiver" but no one is pushing those - Why?

2 hours ago, Negatory said:

Yep, sure have. Basic training and tech school. More to follow, probably.

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2021-11-02/how-the-military-is-handling-troops-who-refuse-coronavirus-vaccines?context=amp

We're also axing cadets from ROTC. Even ones who are about to finish the program aren't being allowed to commission. 

3 hours ago, Blue said:

For all of the noise made about the DoD mandates, has a single servicemember been let go yet?

Guard guy - I've been told I won't be paid for drill starting in January, therefore I won't be showing up.  

Bring on the strongly worded letters from leadership.

Edited December 7, 20213 yr by FUSEPLUG

3 hours ago, Prozac said:

So if the DOD produced some vials with the “right” label on them, would you roll up your sleeve? 

Have they? Until they do, it’s a moot point. SecDef has only instructed that Fully FDA Licensed shots can be “forced.” Until there is one in hand, a service member must volunteer to take an EUA. 
 

I won’t argue your hypothetical as in this case it is a false dilemma.  

55 minutes ago, UPT-hopeful said:

Have they? Until they do, it’s a moot point. SecDef has only instructed that Fully FDA Licensed shots can be “forced.” Until there is one in hand, a service member must volunteer to take an EUA. 
 

I won’t argue your hypothetical as in this case it is a false dilemma.  

For a group who suppose to be detail and procedure oriented, I’m surprised how many people give this point no legitimacy. As a recipient of any product wouldn’t you want the highest quality product held to the highest standard which is clearly marked verified with thorough documentation and testing? I don’t get it. I Must be missing something.

If you have the choice between a certified aircraft and experiential aircraft (but legally distinct), wouldn’t you want the certified one? Yet some folks are saying, details smetails, I’ll take whatever you got. It’s just a label. If the choice is clear for something like aircraft, then shouldn’t it be even more clear for a drug that you place inside your body?

The pharma industry is about making money and they are incentivized to boost benefits and shelter adverse effects from the public. There are rules that help prevent that from taking precedence over Americans health kinda. The rules don’t always work great (see Pfizer suit for 2.3billion). If they don’t follow those rules, then we should demand that they do. No?

28 minutes ago, glockenspiel said:

For a group who suppose to be detail and procedure oriented, I’m surprised how many people give this point no legitimacy. As a recipient of any product wouldn’t you want the highest quality product held to the highest standard which is clearly marked verified with thorough documentation and testing? I don’t get it. I Must be missing something.

If you have the choice between a certified aircraft and experiential aircraft (but legally distinct), wouldn’t you want the certified one? Yet some folks are saying, details smetails, I’ll take whatever you got. It’s just a label. If the choice is clear for something like aircraft, then shouldn’t it be even more clear for a drug that you place inside your body?

The pharma industry is about making money and they are incentivized to boost benefits and shelter adverse effects from the public. There are rules that help prevent that from taking precedence over Americans health kinda. The rules don’t always work great (see Pfizer suit for 2.3billion). If they don’t follow those rules, then we should demand that they do. No?

Rights, it's like how I'll fight back a tower controller that says ANYTHING but "cleared to land" or "cleared to lineup and wait", etc.... I don't care if their intent is essentially the same. It has to be perfect. 

Rights, it's like how I'll fight back a tower controller that says ANYTHING but "cleared to land" or "cleared to lineup and wait", etc.... I don't care if their intent is essentially the same. It has to be perfect. 

What do you do at a non-towered airfield?


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Just now, CaptainMorgan said:

What do you do at a non-towered airfield?


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What? Is this even a real question? 

8 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:

What do you do at a non-towered airfield?


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On second thought I guess your answer is: well an uncontrolled field is non-FDA approved so it's my decision whether i want to take the active or not. 😂

3 hours ago, FLEA said:

Rights, it's like how I'll fight back a tower controller that says ANYTHING but "cleared to land" or "cleared to lineup and wait", etc.... I don't care if their intent is essentially the same. It has to be perfect. 

Well, you must be fun to fly with Ace:

 

2 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Well, you must be fun to fly with Ace:

 

Is this a joke? There are entire safety investigations on tower clearances and words. There is a reason we say "line up and wait" now and not "position and hold." Did they stop teaching comm discipline at some point in UPT? I feel like I'm at the local FBO lounge. 

Edited December 8, 20213 yr by FLEA

51 minutes ago, FLEA said:

Is this a joke?

Yes. 
 

Lighten up Francis. 

https://news.yahoo.com/judge-blocks-biden-vaccine-mandate-010332675.html

7 hours ago, FUSEPLUG said:

Guard guy - I've been told I won't be paid for drill starting in January, therefore I won't be showing up.  

Bring on the strongly worded letters from leadership.

SECDEFs Nov 30th memo made it clear that unvaccinated guardsmen would be barred from participating in drill, training, or other duty.  The fact that they wouldn't be paid for services not rendered was included as a secondary remark.  So lets not pretend that you're sticking it to the man.

9 minutes ago, Mark1 said:

SECDEFs Nov 30th memo made it clear that unvaccinated guardsmen would be barred from participating in drill, training, or other duty.  The fact that they wouldn't be paid for services not rendered was included as a secondary remark.  So lets not pretend that you're sticking it to the man.

 

This all makes you wonder why we even have a guard? Why not just roll it all into the AFR if they are technically federal employees first anyway. 

39 minutes ago, FLEA said:

This all makes you wonder why we even have a guard? Why not just roll it all into the AFR if they are technically federal employees first anyway. 

 
This all makes you wonder why we even have a guard? Why not just roll it all into the AFR if they are technically federal employees first anyway. 

LoL... I was clueless about the Guard once also. Then I Palace Chased and never looked back.

It makes me laugh the hardball our leaders play at times. In my past 20 years in the service, I have never seen as much policy and brain power (or lack thereof) go into anything that'd make a positive outcome for our troops.

So I got my 2nd jab a few days ago by the "deadline". As some will remember, I got the first one back in the summer before it was made mandatory and chose not to get another one. Other than a pretty sore arm for a day and a little bit of tiredness, I didn't get any other side effects from it. Maybe it is because I went so long between doses. Who knows? Who cares? Call it my booster.

What is funny (or maybe not so funny) is to now hear people in my unit talk about "long term" side effects. Seems that everyone is talking about the same stuff - Stiff joints. Muscle pain, mainly in the arm it was administered. Arthritic-like symptoms. Less stamina when exercising.

For me, the shoulder I got my first jab in four months hasn't been the same since. I don't have as much strength in it and I have less range of motion. If I sleep on it, it is usually throbbing in the morning. Did I hurt it doing something else and this is all just coincidence? I can't think of any other event when this could have happened. Other than that, I do feel like it is harder for me to run when it come to stamina. I've been a pretty avid runner and although I did put on a few pounds of "COVID weight" this past year, it just feels like something different. Who knows? I have read quite a few testimonies online from avid runners who run a hell of a lot more than I do who claim they've lost their stamina after their vaccine as well.

11 hours ago, Mark1 said:

So lets not pretend that you're sticking it to the man.

Not trying to stick it to anyone.  Just answering Blue's question. 

I haven't been kicked out yet, but the sequence of events has been put into motion with the memo you referenced. 

2 hours ago, TheNewGazmo said:

LoL... I was clueless about the Guard once also. Then I Palace Chased and never looked back.

It makes me laugh the hardball our leaders play at times. In my past 20 years in the service, I have never seen as much policy and brain power (or lack thereof) go into anything that'd make a positive outcome for our troops.

So I got my 2nd jab a few days ago by the "deadline". As some will remember, I got the first one back in the summer before it was made mandatory and chose not to get another one. Other than a pretty sore arm for a day and a little bit of tiredness, I didn't get any other side effects from it. Maybe it is because I went so long between doses. Who knows? Who cares? Call it my booster.

What is funny (or maybe not so funny) is to now hear people in my unit talk about "long term" side effects. Seems that everyone is talking about the same stuff - Stiff joints. Muscle pain, mainly in the arm it was administered. Arthritic-like symptoms. Less stamina when exercising.

For me, the shoulder I got my first jab in four months hasn't been the same since. I don't have as much strength in it and I have less range of motion. If I sleep on it, it is usually throbbing in the morning. Did I hurt it doing something else and this is all just coincidence? I can't think of any other event when this could have happened. Other than that, I do feel like it is harder for me to run when it come to stamina. I've been a pretty avid runner and although I did put on a few pounds of "COVID weight" this past year, it just feels like something different. Who knows? I have read quite a few testimonies online from avid runners who run a hell of a lot more than I do who claim they've lost their stamina after their vaccine as well.


 

I had the opposite… I had a bunch of weird long term COVID side effect that all went away after my shots. Again, I don’t put a lot of stock in my one experience because of correlation and causation, but it felt like it helped.

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