Gen Milley should resign

[HeloDude]

17 minutes ago, LumberjackAxe said:

I applaud his tenacity to do exactly that, but I value my family’s wellbeing over my desire to hold senior leaders accountable.

Just curious as to what your threshold is for doing something similar to Scheller?  Hopefully there’s a line somewhere with all of us…then again, maybe there’s not.

“ In February 1942, just two months later, President Roosevelt, as commander-in-chief, issued Executive Order 9066 that resulted in the internment of Japanese Americans. The order authorized the Secretary of War and military commanders to evacuate all persons deemed a threat from the West Coast to internment camps, that the government called "relocation centers," further inland.”

https://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/japanese-relocation#background

[M2]

On 9/2/2021 at 1:37 PM, BashiChuni said:

This headline about sums up the entire thing

Biden wasn't looking at his watch, he was seeing if he still had blood on his hands...

[disgruntledemployee]

Scheller's video seems like his version of a "Dear Boss" letter.  Or he wargamed the shit out of this move and has umpteen branch plans ready to fire. 

Now if this does go to Courts Martial, can he subpoena and introduce evidence to back up his statements?  Dispositions?  Witnesses?  If a CM happens, betcha a beer he tries to turn the table and make a circus out of it.  He'll probably also get plenty of free, high power, legal help as this represents a target to take a shot at the Biden admin. 

Make some popcorn, this might get interesting...

PS, if only CENTCOM, and those up higher, had wargamed the Afghan retrograde plan.... wait, that's right, no plan to game out.

[Lawman]

Scheller's video seems like his version of a "Dear Boss" letter.  Or he wargamed the shit out of this move and has umpteen branch plans ready to fire. 
Now if this does go to Courts Martial, can he subpoena and introduce evidence to back up his statements?  Dispositions?  Witnesses?  If a CM happens, betcha a beer he tries to turn the table and make a circus out of it.  He'll probably also get plenty of free, high power, legal help as this represents a target to take a shot at the Biden admin. 
Make some popcorn, this might get interesting...
PS, if only CENTCOM, and those up higher, had wargamed the Afghan retrograde plan.... wait, that's right, no plan to game out.

I’m pretty sure whatever staff planned that shitshow can’t even spell MDMP.


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[mp5g]

51 minutes ago, disgruntledemployee said:

PS, if only CENTCOM, and those up higher, had wargamed the Afghan retrograde plan.... wait, that's right, no plan to game out.

It seems they have copied some of the OCA and DCA FLUG briefs I’ve seen. The no-plan gameplan. Always works out real well <sarcasm>.

[SocialD]

4 minutes ago, mp5g said:

It seems they have copied some of the OCA and DCA FLUG briefs I’ve seen. The no-plan gameplan. Always works out real well <sarcasm>.

 

Get high, get fast and get your arms around it?  

[Lecarpetron Dukemarriot]

Here's the plan that was briefed to POTUS.

[Sua Sponte]

4 hours ago, disgruntledemployee said:

Scheller's video seems like his version of a "Dear Boss" letter.  Or he wargamed the shit out of this move and has umpteen branch plans ready to fire. 

Now if this does go to Courts Martial, can he subpoena and introduce evidence to back up his statements?  Dispositions?  Witnesses?  If a CM happens, betcha a beer he tries to turn the table and make a circus out of it.  He'll probably also get plenty of free, high power, legal help as this represents a target to take a shot at the Biden admin. 

Make some popcorn, this might get interesting...

PS, if only CENTCOM, and those up higher, had wargamed the Afghan retrograde plan.... wait, that's right, no plan to game out.

Regardless of whomever represents him if he does go to a court martial best believe they’re telling him right now to STFU and stop making social media posts and statements.

[gearhog]

"The collapse of the Afghan Army/Gov't happened at a much faster rate than anyone expected. It was a surprise."

https://twitter.com/MrsT106/status/1434473115636150273?s=20

Really?

https://www.reuters.com/world/exclusive-call-before-afghan-collapse-biden-pressed-ghani-change-perception-2021-08-31/

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by torqued

[Sim]

22 hours ago, Lawman said:

staff planned that shitshow

Better question is when did State Department, the organization in charge of NEO, started their planning and when did they requested military support? Why was Afgan exit and NEO planned separately?  

[dream big]

16 minutes ago, Sim said:

Better question is when did State Department, the organization in charge of NEO, started their planning and when did they requested military support? Why was Afgan exit and NEO planned separately?  

The two agencies do not work well together.  I’ve spent a lot of time supporting the East Africa Response Force, it’s a giant joint planning circle jerk while waiting for the DOS, the actual lead agency, to do anything.  
 

Look at how Benghazi transpired. You had alert birds asking to takeoff from the Med while the state department sat on their vaginas.  Afghanistan, however, is incompetence that is unprecedented.  Anyone that calls this a success beyond the COCOM/strategic level needs a mental examination. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by dream big

[HeloDude]

1 hour ago, dream big said:

The two agencies do not work well together.  I’ve spent a lot of time supporting the East Africa Response Force, it’s a giant joint planning circle jerk while waiting for the DOS, the actual lead agency, to do anything.  
 

Look at how Benghazi transpired. You had alert birds asking to takeoff from the Med while the state department sat on their vaginas.  Afghanistan, however, is incompetence that is unprecedented.  Anyone that calls this a success beyond the COCOM/strategic level needs a mental examination. 

IMO the state department in recent (ie last 20-30) years has always seemed to be more the progressive side of our international arm, whereas the military was more the conservative side.  Now that the military is going more towards the progressive side as well, I imagine we’ll see more failures wrt our international interests.  

[Guest]

On 9/5/2021 at 1:15 PM, HeloDude said:

IMO the state department in recent (ie last 20-30) years has always seemed to be more the progressive side of our international arm, whereas the military was more the conservative side.  Now that the military is going more towards the progressive side as well, I imagine we’ll see more failures wrt our international interests.  

Xir/Xa'am are you seriously insinuating progressivism is seriously not good for either our military or Department of State????? 

On 9/5/2021 at 11:29 AM, dream big said:

Look at how Benghazi transpired. You had alert birds asking to takeoff from the Med while the state department sat on their vaginas.  Afghanistan, however, is incompetence that is unprecedented.  Anyone that calls this a success beyond the COCOM/strategic level needs a mental examination. 

I hate you in this moment because your post made me think of Hillary Clinton's hatchet wound. The thought of which gave me acid reflux.

Edited September 8, 2021 by dogfish78

[Lawman]

The two agencies do not work well together.  I’ve spent a lot of time supporting the East Africa Response Force, it’s a giant joint planning circle jerk while waiting for the DOS, the actual lead agency, to do anything.  
 
Look at how Benghazi transpired. You had alert birds asking to takeoff from the Med while the state department sat on their vaginas.  Afghanistan, however, is incompetence that is unprecedented.  Anyone that calls this a success beyond the COCOM/strategic level needs a mental examination. 

Watching the F’d up relationship State and DOD had both during normal ops and then during a HADR was pretty eye opening. It was like watching a bad marriage at the geopolitical level.

That was during the Obama era though where it was clear to everybody in the room who of the two was the favored vs adopted child. Of course none of that would happen under Biden… oh wait no we have a 30 year history to draw from with his statements on DOD and opinions of their ability to contribute during policy shaping are well known.


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[Lawman]

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/blinken-denies-taliban-holding-americans-hostage-us-struggles/story?id=79872338

Because if the Taliban is known for anything in particular, it’s their ceaseless commitment to accurate record keeping and the administrative process of running a major airport…

Could we get a better example of the press pool being unwilling to push against this admin the way they overzealous went after the last one over anything.


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[gearhog]

If you haven't read Strauss and Howe's book The Fourth Turning, do it. It explains the Crisis of Trust. We're experiencing it on every level, top to bottom, at nearly every institution. It doesn't end well.

Gen Milley held a secret Pentagon staff meeting and told them not to take orders from President Trump in a nuclear emergency. He called China to tell them he wouldn't allow an attack.

 

"Milley took extraordinary action, and called a secret meeting in his Pentagon office on January 8 to review the process for military action, including launching nuclear weapons. Speaking to senior military officials in charge of the National Military Command Center, the Pentagon's war room, Milley instructed them not to take orders from anyone unless he was involved.

"No matter what you are told, you do the procedure. You do the process. And I'm part of that procedure," Milley told the officers, according to the book. He then went around the room, looked each officer in the eye, and asked them to verbally confirm they understood.

"Got it?" Milley asked, according to the book.

"Yes, sir."

 

'Milley considered it an oath,' the authors write.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/14/politics/woodward-book-trump-nuclear/?utm_term=link&utm_source=twcnnbrk&utm_content=2021-09-14T15%3A56%3A45&utm_medium=social

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by torqued

[DirkDiggler]

47 minutes ago, torqued said:

If you haven't read Strauss and Howe's book The Fourth Turning, do it. It explains the Crisis of Trust. We're experiencing it on every level, top to bottom, at nearly every institution. It doesn't end well.

Gen Milley held a secret Pentagon staff meeting and told them not to take orders from President Trump in a nuclear emergency. He called China to tell them he wouldn't allow an attack.

 

"Milley took extraordinary action, and called a secret meeting in his Pentagon office on January 8 to review the process for military action, including launching nuclear weapons. Speaking to senior military officials in charge of the National Military Command Center, the Pentagon's war room, Milley instructed them not to take orders from anyone unless he was involved.

"No matter what you are told, you do the procedure. You do the process. And I'm part of that procedure," Milley told the officers, according to the book. He then went around the room, looked each officer in the eye, and asked them to verbally confirm they understood.

"Got it?" Milley asked, according to the book.

"Yes, sir."

 

'Milley considered it an oath,' the authors write.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/14/politics/woodward-book-trump-nuclear/?utm_term=link&utm_source=twcnnbrk&utm_content=2021-09-14T15%3A56%3A45&utm_medium=social

 

Actually not the first time something like has happened since the dawn of the nuclear age.  Nixon's SecDef (James Schlesinger) reportedly gave military commanders similar orders in the waning days of the Nixon presidency after Nixon was drinking heavily, seemed depressed, had recently lost the Vietnam War, and was openly talking about his ability to initiate nuclear war on calls with senators. 

[GrndPndr]

2 hours ago, torqued said:

If you haven't read Strauss and Howe's book The Fourth Turning, do it. It explains the Crisis of Trust. We're experiencing it on every level, top to bottom, at nearly every institution. It doesn't end well.

Gen Milley held a secret Pentagon staff meeting and told them not to take orders from President Trump in a nuclear emergency. He called China to tell them he wouldn't allow an attack.

 

"Milley took extraordinary action, and called a secret meeting in his Pentagon office on January 8 to review the process for military action, including launching nuclear weapons. Speaking to senior military officials in charge of the National Military Command Center, the Pentagon's war room, Milley instructed them not to take orders from anyone unless he was involved.

"No matter what you are told, you do the procedure. You do the process. And I'm part of that procedure," Milley told the officers, according to the book. He then went around the room, looked each officer in the eye, and asked them to verbally confirm they understood.

"Got it?" Milley asked, according to the book.

"Yes, sir."

 

'Milley considered it an oath,' the authors write.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/14/politics/woodward-book-trump-nuclear/?utm_term=link&utm_source=twcnnbrk&utm_content=2021-09-14T15%3A56%3A45&utm_medium=social

 

No, he shouldn't resign, come on now...

He should be fired!

[GrndPndr]

1 hour ago, DirkDiggler said:

Actually not the first time something like has happened since the dawn of the nuclear age.  Nixon's SecDef (James Schlesinger) reportedly gave military commanders similar orders in the waning days of the Nixon presidency after Nixon was drinking heavily, seemed depressed, had recently lost the Vietnam War, and was openly talking about his ability to initiate nuclear war on calls with senators. 

We could debate about whether Nixon was depressed over the end of Vietnam, I'm pretty sure he wasn't wired that way.  Publicly, he felt that he was the good guy for drawing down the number of ground forces and ending things (such as it was).

[gearhog]

5 minutes ago, GrndPndr said:

No, he shouldn't resign, come on now...

He should be fired!

You would think, but who will do the firing?

At this point, I think we should consider the facts:

- He usurped the sacrosanct authority our civilian government should always have over our military

- He sidestepped the chain of command and contacted a strategic enemy's military leadership directly to cconspire in relaying information regarding our national defense and DEFCON status.

There should be at the very minimum, a nationally televised joint congressional hearing followed by an indictment and trial.

But that's likely not going to happen.

[DirkDiggler]

10 minutes ago, GrndPndr said:

We could debate about whether Nixon was depressed over the end of Vietnam, I'm pretty sure he wasn't wired that way.  Publicly, he felt that he was the good guy for drawing down the number of ground forces and ending things (such as it was).

That's fair, and to be honest, will probably never be known with certainty; his mood at the time was most likely due to a number of factors (obviously Watergate and the impending resignation played heavily).  My previous post was not intended to state that Nixon's mood in Jul-Aug '74 was based solely on Vietnam, apologies if it came off that way.

  Lotta interesting things/claims came out in the early 2000s about Nixon regarding the amount of alcohol he was consuming and reported claims that he was taking Dilantin.  Since he's long dead and different aides have made completely contradictory claims the truth probably never be know for certain.  Apologies for the minor thread derail.

[CaptainMorgan]

Maybe I’m misinformed, but Milley is not part of the Chain of Command when it comes to launching nukes. It goes POTUS-SECDEF-STRATCOM-and then on


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[DirkDiggler]

18 minutes ago, torqued said:

You would think, but who will do the firing?

At this point, I think we should consider the facts:

- He usurped the sacrosanct authority our civilian government should always have over our military

- He sidestepped the chain of command and contacted a strategic enemy's military leadership directly to cconspire in relaying information regarding our national defense and DEFCON status.

There should be at the very minimum, a nationally televised joint congressional hearing followed by an indictment and trial.

But that's likely not going to happen.

Also, I have to ask, do you 100% believe (you said these are facts) all the reporting in that book?  I generally take insider reports I see on sites like Fox and CNN with a grain of salt.  Woodward’s last two books on the Trump presidency were pretty heavily denied up and down the Trump administration.  And if you do believe the parts about Milley, do you also believe everything written about the Trump administration in those books?

[gearhog]

1 minute ago, DirkDiggler said:

Also, I have to ask, do you 100% believe (you said these are facts) all the reporting in that book?  I generally take insider reports I see on sites like Fox and CNN with a grain of salt.  Woodward’s last two books on the Trump presidency were pretty heavily denied up and down the Trump administration.  And if you do believe the parts about Milley, do you also believe everything written about the Trump administration in those books?

No, I could never say 100%. And I should have qualified everything with "If true..." That's why there needs to be a public investigation and hearing. Woodward's record may not be 100%, but he typically doesn't outright fabricate entire events.

The news is coming fast, and there are reports that the calls were intercepted by foreign allies targeting CCP leadership that generated calls back to Washington asking "WTF?".

There are also unverified reports that members in that secret meeting have agreed to testify against Milley if called.

Believe it or not, even Alex Vindeman is beside himself calling for Milley's resignation. LOL.

I'm sure more details will emerge in the next couple days, and I need to resist the urge to make condemnations. Milley himself really really needs to make a statement. We'll see. Where there's smoke...

 

[ExBoneOSO]

Maybe I’m misinformed, but Milley is not part of the Chain of Command when it comes to launching nukes. It goes POTUS-SECDEF-STRATCOM-and then on


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Straight from the CJCS Website:

Today, the Joint Chiefs of Staff have no executive authority to command combatant forces. The issue of executive authority was clearly resolved by the Goldwater-Nichols DOD Reorganization Act of 1986: "The Secretaries of the Military Departments shall assign all forces under their jurisdiction to unified and specified combatant commands to perform missions assigned to those commands..."; the chain of command "runs from the President to the Secretary of Defense; and from the Secretary of Defense to the commander of the combatant command."


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