COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[arg]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mccarthy-vows-military-vaccine-mandate-end-national-defense-bill-wont-move-forward

[FUSEPLUG]

The rumbling on this has been growing over the last week. It’s interesting to see both sides of the MSM picking up on it. 

On a side note - it’s been one year to the day since I last put on the uniform because of this mandate (no pay/no points Guard guy). While I’m not holding my breath, it does appear some sanity may be returning to our overlords. 

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, FUSEPLUG said:

The rumbling on this has been growing over the last week. It’s interesting to see both sides of the MSM picking up on it. 

On a side note - it’s been one year to the day since I last put on the uniform because of this mandate (no pay/no points Guard guy). While I’m not holding my breath, it does appear some sanity may be returning to our overlords. 

I don't foresee it happening. We've had government shutdowns before but I don't see Republicans risking the blame for this one on the vaccine. Im not happy about the vaccine mandate but I don't see this changing whole Biden is in office. 

 

 

[kaputt]

The biggest issue is not the people currently in, it’s recruiting. My IMA gig has an Army Guard guy, and he said in his unit the biggest issue is finding 18-22 year olds that have or are willing to get the vaccine. 
 

It doesn’t matter political leanings, upbringing, socio-economic level, potential officer or enlisted, etc…; not that many young people want to get the vaccine at this point. 

[Sim]

 

[Guardian]

Wow. There’s common sense left in this country. That a pandemic of the vaccinated might no longer be forced upon the fighting men and women is a huge win.

[tac airlifter]

When a judge struck down the justification for masks on airplanes, no ensuing additional wave of illness ravaged the country as was predicted by “experts.” This anecdote alone is proof that we must terminate all COVID-19 related health mandates. It’s time for them all to go. I can’t believe we are still wearing masks in the clinic on base, utter foolishness.  

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, tac airlifter said:

When a judge struck down the justification for masks on airplanes, no ensuing additional wave of illness ravaged the country as was predicted by “experts.” This anecdote alone is proof that we must terminate all COVID-19 related health mandates. It’s time for them all to go. I can’t believe we are still wearing masks in the clinic on base, utter foolishness.  

TBH I think wearing mask in a clinic actually makes since and probably should stick. Not just COVID, but really healthcare facilities are places sick people conjugate. Mask are effective with some types of illness. 

I would like to see our culture change a bit where people do start wearing mask when they have the sniffles and work centers become more tolerant of sick leave. I'm tired of this societal nonsense that you should tough it out when you're sick and go to work spewing snot everywhere. Not talking military here but mainstream society. 

Everywhere else though.... Yeah get rid of it. 

[Biff_T]

At this point the mask seems more like the equivalent of a Nazi armband than a safety precaution.  If you don't wear one, they know you're not on their team.   

Mask up LA!!!  Lol

 

[Guest nsplayr]

3 hours ago, FLEA said:

TBH I think wearing mask in a clinic actually makes since and probably should stick. Not just COVID, but really healthcare facilities are places sick people conjugate. Mask are effective with some types of illness. 

I would like to see our culture change a bit where people do start wearing mask when they have the sniffles and work centers become more tolerant of sick leave. I'm tired of this societal nonsense that you should tough it out when you're sick and go to work spewing snot everywhere. Not talking military here but mainstream society. 

Everywhere else though.... Yeah get rid of it. 

Yes, 100% agree with this. Masks help stop the spread of a lot of respiratory illnesses…it’s partly why they’ve been worn in medical settings for decades!

Everything @FLEA said above is totally reasonable.

3 hours ago, Biff_T said:

At this point the mask seems more like the equivalent of a Nazi armband than a safety precaution.  If you don't wear one, they know you're not on their team.   

Mask up LA!!!  Lol

Then again there are people like this who seem to think people voluntarily choosing to wear masks makes them Nazis 🙄

I don’t wear a mask except where required (many but not all medical facilities it seems like) and rarely see others wearing masks in Tennessee…but if folks want to by all means go for it!

It does not affect me in any way whatsoever and I make no real judgements either way. People that don’t share that mentality at this point I think are clearly in the wrong.

Edited December 7, 2022 by nsplayr

[Blue]

5 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

Then again there are people like this who seem to think people voluntarily choosing to wear masks makes them Nazis 🙄

I don’t wear a mask except where required (many but not all medical facilities it seems like) and rarely see others wearing masks in Tennessee…but if folks want to by all means go for it!

It does not affect me in any way whatsoever and I make no real judgements either way. People that don’t share that mentality at this point I think are clearly in the wrong.

I don't see anyone in this thread criticizing anyone who voluntarily wears a mask.

To add, when the mask mandates finally started dropping, I recall brief public service campaigns about "being respectful to people who choose to wear a mask."  I recall those campaigns quickly going quiet, as people realized the vast majority of non-mask wearers don't give two shits if someone voluntarily wears a mask.

People don't care if you decide on your own to wear a mask

[brabus]

3 hours ago, FLEA said:

I'm tired of this societal nonsense that you should tough it out when you're sick and go to work spewing snot everywhere.

I think that’s the one positive thing that’s come out of this disaster. Talking to friends from all over the work spectrum, it seems like this old line of thinking is changing. 

 

18 minutes ago, Blue said:

I don't see anyone in this thread criticizing anyone who voluntarily wears a mask.

I don’t give a shit if someone chooses to wear a mask, but I honestly will still think you’re a complete idiot when I see your mask around your chin talking to a stranger 2 ft from your face, or when I see you rip your mask off as you leave the plane, only to see you standing nuts to butt in the Jamba Juice line without it. Those people are just virtue signaling douchebags who can’t let go, and I don’t feel bad about thinking that. 

[Biff_T]

5 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Yes, 100% agree with this. Masks help stop the spread of a lot of respiratory illnesses…it’s partly why they’ve been worn in medical settings for decades!

Everything @FLEA said above is totally reasonable.

Then again there are people like this who seem to think people voluntarily choosing to wear masks makes them Nazis 🙄

I don’t wear a mask except where required (many but not all medical facilities it seems like) and rarely see others wearing masks in Tennessee…but if folks want to by all means go for it!

It does not affect me in any way whatsoever and I make no real judgements either way. People that don’t share that mentality at this point I think are clearly in the wrong.

Dude.  I don't give a fxck if you wear a mask.  I agree that masks in hospitals makes sense and if you're sick wear a mask.  Cool, I get it.  What I don't like is how a county very close to where I live (within a 1/4 mile) is considering the indoor mask mandate for everyone....again.  I live in OC and in  HB you didn't have to wear a mask at most places during the pandemic.  Guess what?  Nothing significant happened.   Just down the street they would kick me out of a 7/11 for not wearing a mask.  They attack you verbally and treat you like you just shit on their sidewalk.  I'm tired of stupidity and feelings being used to justify "science".  It's the virtue signaling armband.  It makes sense to wear it if you're sick and in hospitals but come on man, do I really need to wear it to eat at the Sizzler?  

Edited December 8, 2022 by Biff_T
Spelling bee failure

[BFM this]

3 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Then again there are people like this who seem to think people voluntarily choosing to wear masks makes them Nazis 🙄

Masks have become the progressives' MAGA hat.

[BFM this]

3 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Yes, 100% agree with this. Masks help stop the spread of a lot of respiratory illnesses…it’s partly why they’ve been worn in medical settings for decades!

The protocols in hospitals, even before COVID, for wearing masks, when, what for, who's being protected, etc., has precisely ZERO resemblance to public masking.

Public masking (any old piece of cloth strapped to the face) is not only ineffective, it is unhealthy for the wearer, and possibly for those who come in close contact.

[tac airlifter]

19 hours ago, FLEA said:

TBH I think wearing mask in a clinic actually makes since and probably should stick. Not just COVID, but really healthcare facilities are places sick people conjugate. Mask are effective with some types of illness. 

 

16 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Yes, 100% agree with this. Masks help stop the spread of a lot of respiratory illnesses…it’s partly why they’ve been worn in medical settings for decades!

Everything @FLEA said above is totally reasonable.

The problem isn’t masks, it’s mandates.  We are incapable of intelligent mask mandate enforcement.  The nature of a mandate is brute, unreasonable enforcement focusing on compliance regardless of circumstances. This leaves no room for nuance, a core aspect of real life.
 

Also noteworthy that two non-doctors are arguing we force doctors to dress a certain way in their own hospitals.  Here in FL I do not see the majority of doctors voluntarily wearing masks all day in the hospital.  Shouldn’t their opinion carry some weight?  The majority of Americans and doctors are sick of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats imposing rules that defy common sense.  
 

Like you I don’t want to sit next to an obviously contagious hospital patron in a waiting room, but if C19 taught me anything it’s the value of freedom.  You take the good with the bad, it’s worth it. You are free to wear as many masks as you’d like; please stop pretending there’s a movement to restrict your decision to wear a mask.  So bizarre to place demands on others while simultaneously acting like a victim… no one cares about your choice to mask yourself.

TLDR:  freedom good, mandate bad.  But freedom hard, mandate easy.  Still, freedom better.

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, tac airlifter said:

 

The problem isn’t masks, it’s mandates.  We are incapable of intelligent mask mandate enforcement.  The nature of a mandate is brute, unreasonable enforcement focusing on compliance regardless of circumstances. This leaves no room for nuance, a core aspect of real life.
 

Also noteworthy that two non-doctors are arguing we force doctors to dress a certain way in their own hospitals.  Here in FL I do not see the majority of doctors voluntarily wearing masks all day in the hospital.  Shouldn’t their opinion carry some weight?  The majority of Americans and doctors are sick of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats imposing rules that defy common sense.  
 

Like you I don’t want to sit next to an obviously contagious hospital patron in a waiting room, but if C19 taught me anything it’s the value of freedom.  You take the good with the bad, it’s worth it. You are free to wear as many masks as you’d like; please stop pretending there’s a movement to restrict your decision to wear a mask.  So bizarre to place demands on others while simultaneously acting like a victim… no one cares about your choice to mask yourself.

TLDR:  freedom good, mandate bad.  But freedom hard, mandate easy.  Still, freedom better.

Would you push back against other mandates? Like... is it a terrible blow to your freedom that you can't smoke in the hospital waiting room? 

[Lockjaw]

From my prehospital care knowledge (working EMS), the data on surgical masks doing good against respiratory illness is unsettled at best (hence why there is normally a disclaimer on the boxes). There are even studies suggesting they aren't that great at blocking fluids, etc, in a surgical environment and that plastic face shields would be better for that purpose. 

Yes, N95s can be useful for protecting a user against tuberculosis and other such illnesses, but they are a royal PITA to wear when worn properly and are only supposed to be used once (just like medical gloves or pretty much any other PPE). We always donned 95s when we suspected a patient had TB and the ER staff would do the same, even placing them in a particular room for isolation (when facilities were available). ICUs would go further for certain types of infectious diseases, utilizing things like Tyvek suits or respirators - which is understandable when you are in close proximity of a particular individual with a very infectious and harmful illness for long periods of time, performing treatments/intervention - but they would only be used for that patient's room.

It was not common and certainly not mandatory to be wearing a mask in a "normal" medical environment. They hinder communication, are uncomfortable when worn properly, and are really only usable once, if you want them to be as effective as advertised.

[GKinnear]

22 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Would you push back against other mandates? Like... is it a terrible blow to your freedom that you can't smoke in the hospital waiting room? 

To your specific argument, the safety precaution of the risk from a highly flammable material (100% Oxygen) in close proximity to an ignition source (cigarette/cigar/pipe/joint...whatever) is backed up by science that is devoid of any political argument.

In a free society, mandates from the government are always an exercise in how much power can the government assume that the populace is willing to tolerate.

[tac airlifter]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Would you push back against other mandates? Like... is it a terrible blow to your freedom that you can't smoke in the hospital waiting room? 

No, I could smoke outside which still allows my freedom without inhibiting your freedom from second hand smoke.

Requiring an action is fundamentally different than not allowing an action.

Any of these statements can be taken to a logical absurdity, which is not my intent or yours.  I’m guessing you thought it was unreasonable for people walking alone on a deserted beach to be arrested for not wearing a mask; unfortunately that outcome is the inevitable result of mandates by unaccountable parties.  

[Guardian]

Masks have become the progressives' MAGA hat.

MAGA hats are the progressives MAGA hats. They get triggered by the slightest hint that progressive ideals don’t make America great.

[Biff_T]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

Would you push back against other mandates? Like... is it a terrible blow to your freedom that you can't smoke in the hospital waiting room? 

I also can't whip out my dong and start  banging a chicken in the waiting room.  Or pull out my axe and start chopping up the staff.  Are we truly free?   Lol.    Dude, inhaling smoke is "scientifically" proven unhealthy and therefore I comply.  Walking to my table at the Sizzler wearing a mask and then taking it off to eat has not been proven to do anything except keep me from smelling a fart.  If they did a good job proving to the public that all of these safety precautions (mask, social distancing, not leaving your house and etc...) worked, then most would get on board.  Kinda like speed limits, seat belts and smoking in waiting rooms.   

[brabus]

7 minutes ago, Biff_T said:

except keep me from smelling a fart.

False, they objectively do not even accomplish that!

[pawnman]

2 hours ago, GKinnear said:

To your specific argument, the safety precaution of the risk from a highly flammable material (100% Oxygen) in close proximity to an ignition source (cigarette/cigar/pipe/joint...whatever) is backed up by science that is devoid of any political argument.

In a free society, mandates from the government are always an exercise in how much power can the government assume that the populace is willing to tolerate.

Are there a lot of O2 tanks in the waiting room? 

Even then... shouldn't everyone be free to make their own risk decision? "That guy is smoking next to an O2 tank, maybe I should leave".

Of course the point is we accept some mandates... it's part of living in a society. I don't know why some people have decided wearing a mask in a hospital is the last straw towards a totalitarian society. 

[Biff_T]

2 minutes ago, pawnman said:

 I don't know why some people have decided wearing a mask in a hospital is the last straw towards a totalitarian society. 

Mandates for everyone outside of a hospital is what I'm concerned about.  Did you happen to fly into LAX during the lockdowns? Blanket  mandates applied to everyone.  After many cities in OC refused to play ball with the state,  Gavin Newsom closed the state beaches (during the summer) around those cities and tried forcing all of the beach cities to shutdown their beaches as well. Covid was not being spread at the beaches.  It was a power play to fck with OC for not blindly following the Governor.  We're historically more conservative in OC.   He had the CHP flying helicopters over the beach telling people to go home.   I was surfing and gave a big middle finger to the CHP little bird.  They are going to keep applying covid mandates for the rest of our lives.  When covid is no longer a threat, they are going to say that the new threat is the flu, pneumonia, Trump's farts or whatever works to scare the people into following.