COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[Pooter]

A few more:

If there's a conspiracy to cover up adverse effects why was J&J temporarily pulled out of an abundance of caution for blood clotting issues?

Are other countries seeing ten-fold increases in "neurological issues?" or 300% increases in cancer?

What kind of cancer?

These are some pretty basic questions I would expect anyone attempting to do their due diligence to ask. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, not a 2.5 minute video utterly devoid of context or supporting data. 

[tac airlifter]

3 hours ago, Pooter said:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

“The experimental vaccines are safe and effective” is an extraordinary claim that you accepted at face value.   It’s so insane that your default is to believe big pharma.  We’ll see how well that ages.  

[TheNewGazmo]

21 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

“The experimental vaccines are safe and effective” is an extraordinary claim that you accepted at face value.   It’s so insane that your default is to believe big pharma.  We’ll see how well that ages.  

Well come on now.  Who wouldn't want to believe Big Pharma?

[jrizzell]

Well come on now.  Who wouldn't want to believe Big Pharma?

I think they’ve got a good track record of being open and honest about the side effects of a drug which they’ve made billions off. I mean OxyContin “non-addictive” release was along time ago in 1996, I’m sure Big Pharma has changed since then…

[Pooter]

2 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

“The experimental vaccines are safe and effective” is an extraordinary claim that you accepted at face value.   It’s so insane that your default is to believe big pharma.  We’ll see how well that ages.  

I don't accept that claim at face value. I do accept the controlled trials with tens of thousands of participants, the robust adverse effects reporting system, the CDC, the international community who aren't beholden to American pharma companies, and the billions of doses administered in the last year which all point to the vaccine being safe and effective. 
 

But maybe the 120 second video of rando lawyer claiming stats that don't even make sense while showing precisely zero causality is more legit. 

[Pooter]

1 hour ago, jrizzell said:

I think they’ve got a good track record of being open and honest about the side effects of a drug which they’ve made billions off. I mean OxyContin “non-addictive” release was along time ago in 1996, I’m sure Big Pharma has changed since then…

Again, happy to check out literally any amplifying data on these supposed 800,000 neurological problems.  Until then I'll probably default to the stats VAERS, the CDC, and the worldwide medical community are reporting. 

[jrizzell]

Again, happy to check out literally any amplifying data on these supposed 800,000 neurological problems.  Until then I'll probably default to the stats VAERS, the CDC, and the worldwide medical community are reporting. 

I’m not arguing any of those issues. I’m pointing out that we have mNRA “vaccines” that are not even a year into usage, and has morphed from a two shot series, into three, or four required. All the while, the Pharma companies, have legal immunity over injuries related to the administration or use of their products to treat or protect against Covid, until 2024. We have ZERO data on the long term affects of these treatments. You might trust Pfizer and Moderna, I don’t.

[Pooter]

1 hour ago, jrizzell said:

I’m not arguing any of those issues. I’m pointing out that we have mNRA “vaccines” that are not even a year into usage, and has morphed from a two shot series, into three, or four required. All the while, the Pharma companies, have legal immunity over injuries related to the administration or use of their products to treat or protect against Covid, until 2024. We have ZERO data on the long term affects of these treatments. You might trust Pfizer and Moderna, I don’t.

You're right to have a healthy level of distrust because the pharma companies definitely abused it in the past. But despite legal protections from the EUA, it's still in their financial interest to make a safe vaccine that works. I might not trust them but I trust the financial incentive.
 

There are multiple vaccine options on the market and if one is significantly less effective or safe than the others, word will get out and people will opt for a different shot or none at all. 
 

This government-pharma conspiracy to brush adverse effects under the rug simply isn't materializing in the real world. J&J literally had that problem, and it was pulled from the market (some even argued prematurely) while they investigated the blood clot issue. 

[tac airlifter]

4 hours ago, Pooter said:

I don't accept that claim at face value. I do accept the controlled trials with tens of thousands of participants, the robust adverse effects reporting system, the CDC, the international community who aren't beholden to American pharma companies, and the billions of doses administered in the last year which all point to the vaccine being safe and effective. 

1. Have you actually seen the results of those trials or are we still waiting 75 years for the data to be released?

2. VAERS makes you more confident?  Just because I’m dumb and I need help from young people with the Internet, could you please reassure me about the safety of these vaccines by comparing the number of C19 adverse reaction reports to vaccines of the past? I’m sure the numbers are extremely low and this vaccine tests favorably so if you could help me out with that I’d really appreciate it.

3. You trust the CDC, I assume because their guidance has been so consistent throughout this pandemic.except….

4. The CDC is recommending masks but the UK (what I believe is part of your vaunted international community) just abolished mask mandates. The entities you report as trustworthy are in conflict with each other, which means you hold conflicting ideas simultaneously.  “Double think” is the official parlance for the phenomenon you are experiencing.  By the way Africa doesn’t give a fuck about the vaccine and seems to be doing about as well as anyone.  

5. of note on those billions of “safe and effective” doses: in less than a year the definition of “effective” changed from preventing acquisition of Covid to maybe, hopefully lessening the symptoms of Covid (although even that claim is an article of faith) and doing nothing to stop the spread.  Whatever your current definition of “safe,” be prepared for that to change.

look I get it man, you are a believer. More power to you for being honest about your total indoctrination. However, the official narrative is crumbling whether you see it or not, so I wrote the above for those other people who might be lurkers wondering if the anecdotes they’ve seen are isolated incidents.  To them I would say, believe your own experiences. This lie is falling apart, don’t give into the pressure of calling false things real and real things false.  
 

We all went along with the “experts” 1-2 years ago partly because we had to and partly because our default setting was trust the experts.  But suddenly gathering in crowds was OK as long as you were protesting for BLM but not OK to attend church.  Then the lab leak conspiracy grew into the most likely origin, and the people who seemed surprised by Covid and certain the origins were natural turned out to have illegally funded experimentation in a communist Chinese military hospital.  Then you got the vaccine, and got Covid afterwards like I did and wondered what the hell?  Then you saw healthy young people getting heart attacks and thought that seems weird but you were assured it had nothing to do with anything and is totally anomalous. Then we took our masks off for a few months then we put them back on and it made zero difference in terms of the trajectory of the virus.  Now they are telling you to get a booster or a second booster and plan to get boosters forever and plan to wear masks forever and you probably don’t like this world of vaccine passports and stewardesses shouting at you and do not see how the actions we have taken have made things better but everything is quantifiably worse.  When you speak up or mention it people shout you down, call you a Trumper or a science denier and you feel like something about this entire thing just isn’t right.  If this is you, don’t worry bro, the tide is turning.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by tac airlifter

[BashiChuni]

7 hours ago, Pooter said:

I don't accept that claim at face value. I do accept the controlled trials with tens of thousands of participants, the robust adverse effects reporting system, the CDC, the international community who aren't beholden to American pharma companies, and the billions of doses administered in the last year which all point to the vaccine being safe and effective. 
 

But maybe the 120 second video of rando lawyer claiming stats that don't even make sense while showing precisely zero causality is more legit. 

THE TRIALS ARE RUN BY BIG PHARMA

[brabus]

5 hours ago, Pooter said:

it's still in their financial interest to make a safe vaccine that works. I might not trust them but I trust the financial incentive

Not really. Their financial interest is to make as much money as possible, future lawsuit/settlement payouts are just cost of doing business (probably can even deduct it!) They know it, and they don’t give a fuck. 

 

4 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

VAERS makes you more confident?

People use VAERS when it’s convenient to support their position, while shitting on it when numbers change that don’t support their argument. Also, how many people are like me who had harsh reactions to the vax, but have yet to fill out VAERS (because priorities)…probably a lot. 

[Pooter]

13 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

THE TRIALS ARE RUN BY BIG PHARMA

Well if that's your big hang up just go ahead and avoid all medicines until the end of time. Because that statement holds true for every medicine that has ever entered your body.

[Pooter]

15 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

1. Have you actually seen the results of those trials or are we still waiting 75 years for the data to be released?

2. VAERS makes you more confident?  Just because I’m dumb and I need help from young people with the Internet, could you please reassure me about the safety of these vaccines by comparing the number of C19 adverse reaction reports to vaccines of the past? I’m sure the numbers are extremely low and this vaccine tests favorably so if you could help me out with that I’d really appreciate it.

3. You trust the CDC, I assume because their guidance has been so consistent throughout this pandemic.except….

4. The CDC is recommending masks but the UK (what I believe is part of your vaunted international community) just abolished mask mandates. The entities you report as trustworthy are in conflict with each other, which means you hold conflicting ideas simultaneously.  “Double think” is the official parlance for the phenomenon you are experiencing.  By the way Africa doesn’t give a fuck about the vaccine and seems to be doing about as well as anyone.  

5. of note on those billions of “safe and effective” doses: in less than a year the definition of “effective” changed from preventing acquisition of Covid to maybe, hopefully lessening the symptoms of Covid (although even that claim is an article of faith) and doing nothing to stop the spread.  Whatever your current definition of “safe,” be prepared for that to change.

look I get it man, you are a believer. More power to you for being honest about your total indoctrination. However, the official narrative is crumbling whether you see it or not, so I wrote the above for those other people who might be lurkers wondering if the anecdotes they’ve seen are isolated incidents.  To them I would say, believe your own experiences. This lie is falling apart, don’t give into the pressure of calling false things real and real things false.  
 

We all went along with the “experts” 1-2 years ago partly because we had to and partly because our default setting was trust the experts.  But suddenly gathering in crowds was OK as long as you were protesting for BLM but not OK to attend church.  Then the lab leak conspiracy grew into the most likely origin, and the people who seemed surprised by Covid and certain the origins were natural turned out to have illegally funded experimentation in a communist Chinese military hospital.  Then you got the vaccine, and got Covid afterwards like I did and wondered what the hell?  Then you saw healthy young people getting heart attacks and thought that seems weird but you were assured it had nothing to do with anything and is totally anomalous. Then we took our masks off for a few months then we put them back on and it made zero difference in terms of the trajectory of the virus.  Now they are telling you to get a booster or a second booster and plan to get boosters forever and plan to wear masks forever and you probably don’t like this world of vaccine passports and stewardesses shouting at you and do not see how the actions we have taken have made things better but everything is quantifiably worse.  When you speak up or mention it people shout you down, call you a Trumper or a science denier and you feel like something about this entire thing just isn’t right.  If this is you, don’t worry bro, the tide is turning.

 

 

You're right I'm just an indoctrinated blind believer.  
 

I should adjust my expectations to be more realistic like you.. that government agencies should be perfectly consistent in their messaging across two administrations over 2+ years, that the international community will be in perfect policy lockstep as they all independently respond to a pandemic, and that medications must remain exactly as effective as they were originally even for variants of a virus that didn't exist when the medication was being developed.  
 

Anything short of perfection on any of these topics is tantamount to a big government cover-up / conspiracy. 

[BashiChuni]

Taking away freedoms is not a conspiracy. 
 

[disgruntledemployee]

2 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

Taking away freedoms is not a conspiracy. 
 

But it's unAmerican.

[arg]

Bunch of quacks? The first couple of minutes 

https://futurenews.news/watch?id=61f08a740388fd1a8a6afca9&fbclid=IwAR3PrZmkM_UazWmDENUDLhUTAHwqiSkjPv3vly8ZBpulyLJFZLVWH5kqDN4

Longer version. I haven't watched the whole thing, 5.5 hours.

https://rumble.com/vt62y6-covid-19-a-second-opinion.html

 

[Prozac]

This Big Pharma argument is so disingenuous. If you refuse to trust pharmaceutical companies, the CDC, and the FDA, fine. I have no problem with that. Just be intellectually honest and stop shopping at the grocery store. Stop taking your Tylenol, your Prilosec, and your Viagra. Go grow your own vegetables, raise your own meat, and stop taking all medications. To do anything otherwise means you implicitly trust the system in place and are talking out of your ass. 

[Blue]

3 hours ago, Prozac said:

….stop shopping at the grocery store. Stop taking your Tylenol, your Prilosec, and your Viagra. Go grow your own vegetables, raise your own meat, and stop taking all medications. To do anything otherwise means you implicitly trust the system in place and are talking out of your ass. 

This is an interesting thread, but sometimes I wonder which posters are adults, and which are 13 year olds in their parent’s basement.

[glockenspiel]

5 hours ago, Prozac said:

This Big Pharma argument is so disingenuous. If you refuse to trust pharmaceutical companies, the CDC, and the FDA, fine. I have no problem with that. Just be intellectually honest and stop shopping at the grocery store. Stop taking your Tylenol, your Prilosec, and your Viagra. Go grow your own vegetables, raise your own meat, and stop taking all medications. To do anything otherwise means you implicitly trust the system in place and are talking out of your ass. 

Do you believe that the humans that work at the top of the CDC and FDA re truly there to serve the common good? Who are they beholden too? If they do bad, is there any method for accountability to the public? Are the leaders of the cdc and fda incentivized to hold other things above our individual health? Is there a thick, wide and well lit line between big pharma and the gov?

[Prozac]

7 minutes ago, glockenspiel said:

Do you believe that the humans that work at the top of the CDC and FDA re truly there to serve the common good? Who are they beholden too? If they do bad, is there any method for accountability to the public? Are the leaders of the cdc and fda incentivized to hold other things above our individual health? Is there a thick, wide and well lit line between big pharma and the gov?

Imperfect as the system may be, I believe I'd much rather depend on a taxpayer funded organization subject to oversight by duly elected officials to determine the safety of food and drugs I put in my body vs some yahoo trying to fund his next Lamborghini with youtube clicks.  

[brabus]

7 hours ago, Prozac said:

This Big Pharma argument is so disingenuous. If you refuse to trust pharmaceutical companies, the CDC, and the FDA, fine. I have no problem with that. Just be intellectually honest and stop shopping at the grocery store. Stop taking your Tylenol, your Prilosec, and your Viagra. Go grow your own vegetables, raise your own meat, and stop taking all medications. To do anything otherwise means you implicitly trust the system in place and are talking out of your ass. 

And that boys and girls is a nice example of a false dichotomy. 

[tac airlifter]

1 hour ago, Prozac said:

Imperfect as the system may be, I believe I'd much rather depend on a taxpayer funded organization subject to oversight by duly elected officials to determine the safety of food and drugs I put in my body vs some yahoo trying to fund his next Lamborghini with youtube clicks.  

Me too. If I felt as if the bolded above were happening, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.  And it’s not a discussion, it is a one-way issuing of orders to the populace by an unelected organization lacking oversight and motivated by profit.

[TheNewGazmo]

 

[jrizzell]

This Big Pharma argument is so disingenuous. If you refuse to trust pharmaceutical companies, the CDC, and the FDA, fine. I have no problem with that. Just be intellectually honest and stop shopping at the grocery store.

That’s quite the conundrum you present. You either blindly trust that Big Pharma has 100% public interest as their motive, or divorce yourself completely from their products. I don’t know if you’ve read or watched, but the Hulu series Dopesick (and book of same name), illustrated how corrupt the FDA and Pharma can be. But that fact that within one year, the “vaccine” has made them record breaking profits, and the messaging now is three shots + booster. I’m not the smartest man in the world, but something doesn’t pass the smell test.


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[VMFA187]

11 hours ago, Prozac said:

This Big Pharma argument is so disingenuous. If you refuse to trust pharmaceutical companies, the CDC, and the FDA, fine. I have no problem with that. Just be intellectually honest and stop shopping at the grocery store. Stop taking your Tylenol, your Prilosec, and your Viagra. Go grow your own vegetables, raise your own meat, and stop taking all medications. To do anything otherwise means you implicitly trust the system in place and are talking out of your ass. 

I'm guessing that you're obese because you've been following the old food pyramid most of your life which recommends 11 servings of carbohydrates a day...