COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[ecugringo]

There's also a lot of women reporting menstral cycle changes as part of a side effect.  It's not being discussed very much.  Still unknown what the long term side effects of these changes are with relation to fertility.  

I read somewhere that if 100 ppl get covid, 60 will have no clue they ever had it.  28 will have flu like symptoms, 12 will be hospitalized and 1 of the 12 will die.  However the 12 could be determined by pre existing conditions, age and general health.  

With the increase in cases, and the media scaring everyone again, the key factor is hospitalizations.  Obviously you can still get or carry covid now with a vaccine.  Is the spike really due to ppl not vaxed?  or is this showing the vaccine may not be as protective as thought?

[Zman]

1 hour ago, ecugringo said:With the increase in cases, and the media scaring everyone again, the key factor is hospitalizations.  Obviously you can still get or carry covid now with a vaccine.  Is the spike really due to ppl not vaxed?  or is this showing the vaccine may not be as protective as thought?

Virginia has started reporting the data you’re looking for:

https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/covid-19-data-insights/covid-19-cases-by-vaccination-status/

This should help answer your questions.

These numbers will likely take a bit of a hit with the continued spread of the Delta variant, but the data seems fairly convincing (even if you might argue over a couple numbers here or there).

[Prozac]

9 hours ago, FLEA said:

Well, I can't really respond to you because you came right out the gate with the irrational belief that everyone who claims to have a COVID side effect is a Chinese spy. I can only respond rationally so I can't offer a response. 

Not remotely what I said. Side effects are very real. They are also very rare. There are actors that want you to be hesitant to get a vaccine because it furthers their goals, not yours, and certainly not ours collectively as a nation. 

[MCO]

Masks for all my friends in my area… this is getting ridiculous.

[HeloDude]

31 minutes ago, MCO said:

Masks for all my friends in my area… this is getting ridiculous.

You’re just selfish…or something.

[VMFA187]

8 hours ago, Prozac said:

Not remotely what I said. Side effects are very real. They are also very rare. There are actors that want you to be hesitant to get a vaccine because it furthers their goals, not yours, and certainly not ours collectively as a nation. 

To you and Prawnman,

Would you guys respect someone’s decision if they evaluated the threat to themselves, and others, and decided it was not worth the risk of getting a vaccine? 

[pawnman]

9 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

To you and Prawnman,

Would you guys respect someone’s decision if they evaluated the threat to themselves, and others, and decided it was not worth the risk of getting a vaccine? 

Depends.  Is this person not getting the vaccine still wearing a mask, socially distancing, avoiding large crowds of people...?

Or is this person loudly proclaiming that everything should be open, you can't ask about their vaccination status, refusing to wear a mask even in places where there's a 100% mask policy, and eagerly booking tickets for the next big event?

Because from what I've seen, the people who aren't getting vaccinated also scoff every other countermeasure taken against the pandemic.  If you've gotten advice from your doctor that you shouldn't get the vaccine, I don't fault you.  If you're taking marching orders from some political operative that told you Biden and Fauci are out to get you...no, I don't respect that decision.

[Prozac]

11 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

To you and Prawnman,

Would you guys respect someone’s decision if they evaluated the threat to themselves, and others, and decided it was not worth the risk of getting a vaccine? 

Agree with Pawnman: it depends. For a small number of people, vaccination doesn’t make sense for a variety of medical or other reasons. For the vast majority of us though, that’s like asking if someone’s decision to forgo looking both ways before crossing the street should be respected. Is it a personal decision? Well, I suppose it is, but if you’re hit by a car and killed you’re going to cause all kinds of problems beyond your own unnecessary death. Traffic will be snarled for hours. You have damaged someone’s vehicle and potentially injured them, etc. So I really, REALLY want you to look both ways before crossing the street & have a hard time “respecting” your personal decision not to. 
 

Some data to ponder:

Roughly 35M people have contracted COVID-19 in the US so far.  About 612K have died as a result of COVID-19 infection. 
 

About 340M doses of vaccine have been administered to 187M people in our country. VAERS data indicates roughly 6200 died after receiving the vaccine, however that doesn’t mean they necessarily died as a direct result of vaccination. The latest data I can find indicates that three people have died directly as a result of blood clot issues caused by the J&J vaccine. 
 

To recap: 612K dead out of 35M who contracted COVID. Three dead out of 187M vaccinated. You may dispute those numbers on the margins but that does not change the calculus here. Refusing to get the vaccine is akin to refusing to look both ways before crossing a busy street. It’s a stupid and disruptive decision. 

[DUNBAR]

Regarding crossing the street, I'm fairly certain getting hit by a truck doesn't have a 99% survival rate if you're <70 years old.

[FLEA]

4 hours ago, Prozac said:

Agree with Pawnman: it depends. For a small number of people, vaccination doesn’t make sense for a variety of medical or other reasons. For the vast majority of us though, that’s like asking if someone’s decision to forgo looking both ways before crossing the street should be respected. Is it a personal decision? Well, I suppose it is, but if you’re hit by a car and killed you’re going to cause all kinds of problems beyond your own unnecessary death. Traffic will be snarled for hours. You have damaged someone’s vehicle and potentially injured them, etc. So I really, REALLY want you to look both ways before crossing the street & have a hard time “respecting” your personal decision not to. 
 

Some data to ponder:

Roughly 35M people have contracted COVID-19 in the US so far.  About 612K have died as a result of COVID-19 infection. 
 

About 340M doses of vaccine have been administered to 187M people in our country. VAERS data indicates roughly 6200 died after receiving the vaccine, however that doesn’t mean they necessarily died as a direct result of vaccination. The latest data I can find indicates that three people have died directly as a result of blood clot issues caused by the J&J vaccine. 
 

To recap: 612K dead out of 35M who contracted COVID. Three dead out of 187M vaccinated. You may dispute those numbers on the margins but that does not change the calculus here. Refusing to get the vaccine is akin to refusing to look both ways before crossing a busy street. It’s a stupid and disruptive decision. 

The VAERS data regarding post vaccine deaths isn't what's concerning people. It's the lack of data on COVID vaccine long term side effects. There are A LOT of people complaining about neural and menstrual side effects. It's even less clear if the vaccine will create more insidious effects like increasing risk factors to heart disease or cancer. If I you from COVID (because it wouldn't kill me) but I lose 2 years off my life because I died slightly earlier than expected from heart disease, than it wasn't worth getting the vaccine. Now for the record, I have the vaccine, but that is definitely the case A LOT of people are making and I totally understand it.

Also for the record, my wife is one of the few thousand women reporting extreme and intense menstrual changes post vaccination. To the point that it literally incapacitates her one day a month. That's a hell of a burden to live with until menopause because you were nice enough to save someone else's life by taking an unnecessary risk in your own. Hope those people thank her for her service. 

[Prozac]

2 hours ago, DUNBAR said:

Regarding crossing the street, I'm fairly certain getting hit by a truck doesn't have a 99% survival rate if you're <70 years old.

Some of you guys take analogies way too literally.  Regardless, lets go with your example.  Lets say it's not a busy street.  Lets say it's an extremely desolate street with one vehicle going by every hour.  You're still going to look both ways before crossing because it's an easy and prudent thing to do. 

[Prozac]

7 minutes ago, FLEA said:

The VAERS data regarding post vaccine deaths isn't what's concerning people. It's the lack of data on COVID vaccine long term side effects. There are A LOT of people complaining about neural and menstrual side effects. It's even less clear if the vaccine will create more insidious effects like increasing risk factors to heart disease or cancer. If I you from COVID (because it wouldn't kill me) but I lose 2 years off my life because I died slightly earlier than expected from heart disease, than it wasn't worth getting the vaccine. Now for the record, I have the vaccine, but that is definitely the case A LOT of people are making and I totally understand it.

Also for the record, my wife is one of the few thousand women reporting extreme and intense menstrual changes post vaccination. To the point that it literally incapacitates her one day a month. That's a hell of a burden to live with until menopause because you were nice enough to save someone else's life by taking an unnecessary risk in your own. Hope those people thank her for her service. 

I'm sorry to hear that your wife is experiencing negative side effects that may be a result of vaccination.  The good news is that these side effects are rare, and more pointedly for your wife, seem to last only one or two cycles:

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/can-covid-19-vaccines-affect-periods#How-long-do-these-changes-last?

https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/features/covid-19-vaccines-periods-menstrual/

[Tank]

POTUS requires vaccine for all federal employees…

Does that include all military now?

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-07-29-21/h_6ce902c24f666475efe79fba275e7c02

[DUNBAR]

I'm not certain how flippantly or seriously I'm taking my analogies, but I do know that with each passing month, this COVID thing makes my head explode, especially now that we're re-masking on base.

I don't know how anyone can be contemptuous or condescending to non-vaxxers.  Considering the survival rate of the actual virus for healthy people under the age of 70, and considering the track record of the science/government/media conglomeration of "experts",  everyone should think long and hard about electing to get vaccinated.  We can all compose a laundry list of examples in which something went very wrong with scientific "expertise", whether it be the imminent ice age of the 1970s, thalidomide, or the pitiful track record on COVID.  ("Masks won't help!  It's not an airborne virus!  COVID won't be a big deal!  The flu will be worse!  There's no way it came from a lab!  Yes it did!  No it didn't!  You should wear two masks!  If you get vaccinated, you won't ever need a mask!  Yes you will!" )  On and on it goes.  And yes, I have been vaccinated, as has my family (and that second shot was not fun).

I especially cannot understand the mindset of those who demand more lockdowns, mandatory vaccinations, and masks for elementary school kids.  Everything in life is a risk/cost/benefit trade-off, and the world has gone so far off the deep end with this COVID thing that it's incomprehensible.  

Why not ban air travel?  People die!  Reduce the highway speed limit to 45!  Ban swimming pools!  And alcohol!  And make sure your kindergartner is wearing two masks on the playground!  No, wait!  Ban playgrounds!

Utter madness.

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by DUNBAR
grammar nazi avoidance

[Motofalcon]

1 hour ago, Tank said:

POTUS requires vaccine for all federal employees…

Does that include all military now?

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-07-29-21/h_6ce902c24f666475efe79fba275e7c02

Actually, what he said (from the article you linked) was:

"Every federal government employee will be asked to attest to their vaccination status. Anyone who does not attest or is not vaccinated will be required to mask no matter where they work, test one or two times a week to see if they've acquired Covid, socially distance, and generally will not be allowed to travel for work,"

So the vaccine is NOT mandatory, but if you don’t get vaccinated you will still have to mask and be tested regularly, along with no work travel/TDYs. Which is already how some bases were operating before this statement was made. 

[DUNBAR]

Every federal employee.  Except postal workers. 🙄

[SurelySerious]

APWU at work!

[viper154]

2 hours ago, Motofalcon said:

Actually, what he said (from the article you linked) was:

"Every federal government employee will be asked to attest to their vaccination status. Anyone who does not attest or is not vaccinated will be required to mask no matter where they work, test one or two times a week to see if they've acquired Covid, socially distance, and generally will not be allowed to travel for work,"

So the vaccine is NOT mandatory, but if you don’t get vaccinated you will still have to mask and be tested regularly, along with no work travel/TDYs. Which is already how some bases were operating before this statement was made. 

Sweet, no pointless deployments to 3rd world self imploding shitholes, sounds good to me.

*To be clear, that’s sarcastic, I would guess that would get you on the non deployable list and kicked out or something. 

[Standby]

15 minutes ago, viper154 said:

Sweet, no pointless deployments to 3rd world self imploding shitholes, sounds good to me.

*To be clear, that’s sarcastic, I would guess that would get you on the non deployable list and kicked out or something. 

Keep the bonus money AND get to the airlines earlier? That would definitely be a pro Air Force move. 

[Kiloalpha]

Here's the thing I'm struggling with.

I got COVID really early on in the pandemic. I think I even posted about it on here at the time. Knocked me on my ass for a few days, but I rebounded quickly, and had no lasting effects. Perks of being young (relatively) and without co-morbidities I suppose.

I have natural immunity to the virus as a result. I haven't gone and taken the vaccine yet, because the data on re-infection is pretty clearly showing it doesn't happen very often, and I don't seem to be a good carrier of the virus, even with the Delta variant. However, I'm constantly being pressured to get this vaccine, because it's "better than natural immunity," even though it (admittedly rarely) has side effects, and hasn't been shown to do anything else for me other than make my antibodies last for a few months longer. Woohoo.

I'm not seeing the cost/benefit as being worth it right now. That easily could change, and if the DoD says I have to... then that's fine. However, I'm being treated by the state and national rhetoric outlets as some kinds of a backwards idiot, because I'm one of the "unvaccinated."

I promise I'm reading more medical journals and info than some dipshit who thinks Bill Gates is microchipping folks. I bet I'm also doing more research than the people who are chastising folks for not having the shot, because they actually believe "the science."

Bottom line, the rhetoric on this stuff is fucked.

[glockenspiel]

5 hours ago, Kiloalpha said:

Here's the thing I'm struggling with.

I got COVID really early on in the pandemic. I think I even posted about it on here at the time. Knocked me on my ass for a few days, but I rebounded quickly, and had no lasting effects. Perks of being young (relatively) and without co-morbidities I suppose.

I have natural immunity to the virus as a result. I haven't gone and taken the vaccine yet, because the data on re-infection is pretty clearly showing it doesn't happen very often, and I don't seem to be a good carrier of the virus, even with the Delta variant. However, I'm constantly being pressured to get this vaccine, because it's "better than natural immunity," even though it (admittedly rarely) has side effects, and hasn't been shown to do anything else for me other than make my antibodies last for a few months longer. Woohoo.

I'm not seeing the cost/benefit as being worth it right now. That easily could change, and if the DoD says I have to... then that's fine. However, I'm being treated by the state and national rhetoric outlets as some kinds of a backwards idiot, because I'm one of the "unvaccinated."

I promise I'm reading more medical journals and info than some dipshit who thinks Bill Gates is microchipping folks. I bet I'm also doing more research than the people who are chastising folks for not having the shot, because they actually believe "the science."

Bottom line, the rhetoric on this stuff is ed.

Same boat. Vaccine is not panacea and may not be for everyone, yet seems to be treated like a one size fits all operation. Truth is there is insufficient data to support that the vaccine will benefit previously infected individuals. Don’t believe me, read all of the decision memorandums written by the FDA on the Johnson vaccine, on the Modena vaccine, and Pfizer vaccine:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   
but pipe down and follow the sCiEnceee….

Edited July 30, 2021 by glockenspiel

[di1630]

I had Covid, very mild to the point I was flying 3 sorties with it and didn’t know.

I got the first dose of moderna (felt worse than actual covid) and then my base ran out so I never got the 2nd shot.

From everything I’ve read, one dose gives me 80% effectiveness, some readings say 95% since I already had the virus.

I’m not against the 2nd shot, just not a priority.

When I’m asked if I’m vaccinated I say yes. Is it official that I need both shots?

[Guardian]

There are some pretty good covid memes out there right now.

And I would tell you a Covid joke right now, but I’m 99.9% sure you won’t get it.

[DUNBAR]

4 hours ago, di1630 said:

I had Covid, very mild to the point I was flying 3 sorties with it and didn’t know.

I got the first dose of moderna (felt worse than actual covid) and then my base ran out so I never got the 2nd shot.

From everything I’ve read, one dose gives me 80% effectiveness, some readings say 95% since I already had the virus.

I’m not against the 2nd shot, just not a priority.

When I’m asked if I’m vaccinated I say yes. Is it official that I need both shots?
 

As I understand the current state of things, by forsaking your 2nd shot you are a diabolical enemy of the state who takes joy in killing innocent people.

Of course, updated CDC guidance may be forthcoming at any time.

[HeloDude]

4 months ago if you had the shot and didn’t wear your mask then you were labeled a grandma killer, you know, because science…then a short time later, you were told you didn’t need to wear a mask because you did your duty and got the shot (because you didn’t want to kill grandma).  Now if you’ve had the shot and you don’t wear your mask then you want to kill grandma…you know, because science.

Keep in mind that John Kerry literally used the words “settled science” wrt global warming.  And if you say “pregnant mother” (see link below) then you’re a horrible person because somehow men can now have babies.

If you still think this stuff isn’t political then you’ll never see it…

https://www.dailywire.com/news/university-of-california-medical-prof-apologizes-for-saying-pregnant-women