The Next President is...

[N730]

How far back do you want to go with that? Repeal the 12th A and go straight back to the original constitution text? My original point was the system in place works, not sure why the other guy wants to argue like I erroneously said originalism was the only way as if that’s still in play. 

Well I think a constitutional amendment carries a little more weight than a law. Especially one that created an arbitrary cap on the number of representatives just before we add the 47th and 48th states.

But he probably shouldn't have replied to you. Especially if his intent was to target his comment at those in this thread arguing originalism.

I donno man, haha I was just trying to provide another view point of his comment.

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[SurelySerious]

7 minutes ago, N730 said:

Well I think a constitutional amendment carries a little more weight than a law. Especially one that created an arbitrary cap on the number of representatives just before we add the 47th and 48th states.

But he probably shouldn't have replied to you. Especially if his intent was to target his comment at those in this thread arguing originalism.

I donno man, haha I was just trying to provide another view point of his comment.

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Amendments do to a certain extent, but at times when one party or the other has controlled both sides of congress and the presidency no one has tried seriously to change that cap...so it seems that much like immigration no one cares enough to spend the political capital for a change. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by SurelySerious

[N730]

Amendments do to a certain extent, but at times when one party or the other has controlled both sides of congress and the presidency no one has tried seriously to change that cap...so it seems that much like immigration no one cares enough to spend the political capital for a change. 

Agreed. Sadly we have passed the age of bipartisan work in the interest of the country.

I'm not necessarily saying changing this rule would benefit the country, I don't know. But generally, the parties seem to want to maintain the status quo so they don't lose their talking points.

Plus, in this instance, congresspeople would be diluting their own power. So, like term limits, it's probably never going to happen.

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[Sim]

I hear some people like a monologue when it's done by talking heads. Probably will not like this one. 

 

[Lord Ratner]

21 hours ago, Danger41 said:

I know it’s Bill Maher, but trust me you non-Dems (and probably Dems) will like this.

I've always loved him. Disagree on almost everything, but he's consistent and honest, and he's never bought the whole intersectional coalition BS his party adopted.

[Lord Ratner]

19 hours ago, Prozac said:

This. This is the most coherent argument against the Left. Those of us who are left of center need to internalize this message. If you’re on the other side, don’t worry, you’ve got plenty of your own wackos to recon with (see pretty much all of Sim’s posts above). 

The difference is "our" (I'm not really a Republican) wackos aren't mainstreamed by the party.

 

Seriously, you don't see proud boys or white nationalists doing interviews on Fox news. And you don't have a hard time finding Republican politicians who actively condemn them.

 

Conversely, critical race theory and all the other harmful, lunatic propositions are advocated for at the highest levels of power within the Democratic party. And it's a lot easier to find mainstream politicians who will outright refuse to acknowledge the violence of antifa.

 

As usual, Bill Maher is spot on in his criticisms of his own party.

[Lord Ratner]

16 hours ago, Pooter said:

I'm inclined to agree with you, but let's be honest with ourselves here. In an alternate reality, if big cities skewed heavily republican, you and I both know the right would be railing against the electoral college as un-democratic. 

This is the most annoying part of politics to me: anyone that pretends that either party actually has principles. Pragmatic opportunism drives 100% of politics. 

Doesn't matter. In that alternate world the EC would protect the rural Democrats, as intended. 

 

As you say, politicians, with few exceptions, say whatever they think will win. So if course the (R) would be complaining. Doesn't affect the merits of the system.

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, Sim said:

I hear some people like a monologue when it's done by talking heads. Probably will not like this one. 

 

I like him too. Important to remember that he's not talking about (D) voters, he's talking about the (D) media and politicians.

 

I also like that he actively makes fun of his profession with things like the "Period!" animation at the end. 

 

The sooner we can realize, as voters on both sides, that there is no longer a connection between the political/media class and the citizenship, the better.

[slackline]

5 hours ago, Sim said:

I hear some people like a monologue when it's done by talking heads. Probably will not like this one. 
 

You guys take him seriously? Talk about a vitriol fueled rant...

He has some decent points, but when he's so incredibly angry, hard to take it seriously.


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Edited November 16, 2020 by slackline
grammar and stuff

[Danger41]

4 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

The difference is "our" (I'm not really a Republican) wackos aren't mainstreamed by the party.

 

Seriously, you don't see proud boys or white nationalists doing interviews on Fox news. And you don't have a hard time finding Republican politicians who actively condemn them.

 

Conversely, critical race theory and all the other harmful, lunatic propositions are advocated for at the highest levels of power within the Democratic party. And it's a lot easier to find mainstream politicians who will outright refuse to acknowledge the violence of antifa.

 

As usual, Bill Maher is spot on in his criticisms of his own party.

I don’t follow politics hardly at all, but whatever happened to the Tea Party within the Republican Party? Don’t hear about that anymore.

[17D_guy]

4 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

I've always loved him. Disagree on almost everything, but he's consistent and honest, and he's never bought the whole intersectional coalition BS his party adopted.

Him yelling at the 9/11 truthers to "get the fuck out" is one of my favorite things.

[Lord Ratner]

3 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

I don’t follow politics hardly at all, but whatever happened to the Tea Party within the Republican Party? Don’t hear about that anymore.

What part of the tea party was radical? Real question, that was a while ago.

[17D_guy]

2 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

What part of the tea party was radical? Real question, that was a while ago.

This is a matter of perspective answer.  Some people will find them radical, some won't.  I surmise most won't care.

Tea Party kinda died after Ted Cruz caused the gov't shutdown, and the R's took both houses of Congress.  I imagine we'll be hearing from political scientists/historians how it paved the way for Trumpism, where the Tea Party ideals were abandoned for the "most conservative president ever."

[pawnman]

10 minutes ago, 17D_guy said:

This is a matter of perspective answer.  Some people will find them radical, some won't.  I surmise most won't care.

Tea Party kinda died after Ted Cruz caused the gov't shutdown, and the R's took both houses of Congress.  I imagine we'll be hearing from political scientists/historians how it paved the way for Trumpism, where the Tea Party ideals were abandoned for the "most conservative president ever."

Only in the hyperpartisan environment of 2020 would Trump be considered conservative.

[Sim]

35 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

I don’t follow politics hardly at all, but whatever happened to the Tea Party within the Republican Party? Don’t hear about that anymore.

It was targeted by the "scandal free" prior administration. 

 

https://apnews.com/article/9d2d5e28d661455da834aee66f54353a  

Quote

The IRS is an independent agency within the Treasury Department that enforces the nation’s tax laws. Revelations that the agency was targeting political groups because they were affiliated with a movement that is critical of President Barack Obama could become a new headache for the White House.

“The admission by the Obama administration that the Internal Revenue Service targeted political opponents echoes some of the most shameful abuses of government power in 20th century American history,” said House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio.

Many conservative groups complained during the campaign that they were being harassed by the IRS. They accused the agency of frustrating their attempts to become tax exempt by sending them lengthy, intrusive questionnaires.

 

[slackline]

Somebody recommended it in here before, but I think everyone should have a mandatory watch of The Social Dilemma on Netflix.


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[Guardian]

This just in.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/georgia-secretary-state-brad-raffensperger-wants-elections-director-step-floyd-county-finds-2600-uncounted-ballots/?

Thoughts?

[Guardian]

One county, 2600 votes and I think GA is split by about 14000 votes. That’s almost 20% of the current difference between Biden and trump. So 4 more counties with similar mistake could turn GA.

It’s a mistake that was made during the election that is in dispute. It makes a difference.

[Mark1]

2 hours ago, Guardian said:

One county, 2600 votes and I think GA is split by about 14000 votes. That’s almost 20% of the current difference between Biden and trump. So 4 more counties with similar mistake could turn GA.

It’s a mistake that was made during the election that is in dispute. It makes a difference.

You suck at details dude. Almost like it's willfull ignorance...weird.

It wasn't 2600 ballots with Trump votes, it was 2600 ballots.  The third sentence in your own source says it's presumed to result in approximately +800 differential in favor of Trump. So you'd actually need 17 more counties with similar issues to make a difference, not 4.  Except that Floyd County is among the largest counties in Georgia that leans heavily Republican.  So in reality, you'd probably need similar issues in ~30 Republican counties to make a difference.  This is all assuming that your audit finds 30 discrepancies that result in +Trump differential, and none that result in +Biden differential.  0% chance of that happening.

What exactly is your issue?  Georgia self-initiated a hand recount/audit to make sure they got things right.  They found a discrepancy and they corrected it.  What more could you ask for?  When was the last time you sorted 5 million items into 2 categories and didn't make a single error?  Not to mention that the audit is part of the counting process, so to call it an 'error' isn't correct.  It's only an error if it's found after the vote count is certified.

Not to mention even if Georgia flipped, which it won't, it changes nothing. Move on with your life.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Mark1

[slackline]

You suck at details dude. Almost like it's willfull ignorance...weird.
It wasn't 2600 ballots with Trump votes, it was 2600 ballots.  The third sentence in your own source says it's presumed to result in approximately +800 differential in favor of Trump. So you'd actually need 17 more counties with similar issues to make a difference, not 4.  Except that Floyd County is among the largest counties in Georgia that leans heavily Republican.  So in reality, you'd probably need similar issues in ~30 Republican counties to make a difference.  This is all assuming that your audit finds 30 discrepancies that result in +Trump differential, and none that result in +Biden differential.  0% chance of that happening.
What exactly is your issue?  Georgia self-initiated a hand recount/audit to make sure they got things right.  They found a discrepancy and they corrected it.  What more could you ask for?  When was the last time you sorted 5 million items into 2 categories and didn't make a single error?  Not to mention that the audit is part of the counting process, so to call it an 'error' isn't correct.  It's only an error if it's found after the vote count is certified.
Not to mention even if Georgia flipped, which it won't, it changes nothing. Move on with your life.

And not too mention the secretary of state in GA is a Republican. He's getting pressure from Rep lawmakers, to include L. Graham... Seems legit.


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[Guardian]

You suck at details dude.

Details like I never in my statements took a position?

Details like I never said that all 2600 were for trump? All I did was show you a percentage.

Never did define what a difference meant. It wasn’t defined in yours or my statements. Yes 2600 x 5 exceeds the current voting total differences between Biden and trump. I was giving a hypothetical.

It’s the current news cycle. Why can’t I ask you guys for opinions or pull out data and try to discuss? Why is that so offensive to you?

Seriously asking. Don’t understand the rationale. You mis quote me and mis guess at my intentions then get pissed off about it. Doesn’t make sense to me. I feel like I’m talking up to you on your high horse. Maybe you could ask me questions by what I mean instead of assuming.

[N730]

Details like I never in my statements took a position?

Details like I never said that all 2600 were for trump? All I did was show you a percentage.

It’s the current news cycle. Why can’t I ask you guys for opinions or pull out data and try to discuss? Why is that so offensive to you?

Seriously asking. Don’t understand the rationale. You mis quote me and mis guess at my intentions then get pissed off about it. Doesn’t make sense to me.

One county, 2600 votes and I think GA is split by about 14000 votes. That’s almost 20% of the current difference between Biden and trump. So 4 more counties with similar mistake could turn GA.

It’s a mistake that was made during the election that is in dispute. It makes a difference.

The only way any of your math in the above comment works is if you assumed all 2600 votes were for Trump. The percentage isn't accurate otherwise. So I don't think he was offended, your comment was just misleading. I understand it probably wasn't purposely misleading, but to say he was misquoting you isn't exactly fair.

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[Guardian]

He said I said all 2600 votes went to trump. I did not. = misquote

[drewpey]

Quote

https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/trump-campaign-attorney-admits-in-court-that-there-are-no-fraud-or-eligibility-concerns-over-philadelphia-voters/

that's certainly inconvenient to the agenda

[drewpey]

I get that there is a legal road the Trump party is going to pursue, but ultimately we've seen a number of these avenues slowly dry up.  A quick daily scan of POTUS twitter doesn't seem to paint a realistic grasp of his situation, and his resolve seems to strengthen each day and his vocabulary grows more desperate as he paints himself the victim of a grand conspiracy and the real winner.  Do you trump supporters think that, hypothetically if his legal avenues don't pan out and the electoral college votes Biden in he will simply change his tune and respect the process then or do you think he will fight until the 21st?

Also of note is a headline that Trump asked for military options vs Iran last week.  Veracity of the claims aside...how would that make you feel if it were true?