The Next President is...

[Sim]

4 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

criticisms of the ongoing story?

https://rumble.com/embed/v84seh/?pub=264yz   ...."criticism" 

[Sim]

4 hours ago, drewpey said:

lifelong public servant who has been under public scrutiny for 40+ years ...

Could you remind why Biden quit his presidential run in the 70's?  

 

[Sua Sponte]

6 hours ago, Guardian said:

Oh and the director of National intelligence this morning shot down that it’s a smear campaign.

Edit. Why isn’t Adam Schiff in trouble for his lies and mis information? That should seriously be answered.

So the DNI, who reports to Trump, was nominated by Trump for the job, and been in the job since this past May, says that an email that was “verified” authentic from an anonymous source who sent it to Fox News, a media organization that is Pro-Trump, says it’s not a smear campaign?

Shocking 😂 

https://apnews.com/article/024b553e9a4ffb2716286dd134876f8a
 

“Yet Giuliani says foreign sources didn’t provide the Hunter Biden emails. He says a laptop containing the emails and intimate photos was simply abandoned in a Delaware repair shop and the shop owner reached out to Giuliani’s lawyer.”

Seems “authentic.” So, the repair shop owner random reached out to the lawyer of the lawyer who’s job is to find dirt on Joe Biden, the father of the owner of the purported laptop, who’s running against Trump for President? And he did this possibly without trying to, I dunno, contact the owner of said laptop?

Oh and the media outlets that are making a big deal of the emails? Fox News and The New York Post which are Pro-Trump.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Sua Sponte

[lloyd christmas]

2 hours ago, slackline said:

You say that, but it's hilarious because one person's irrefutable evidence is clearly another's #fakenews. All the proof has been put in here a thousand times, but the left immediately discounts any "proof" as BS and the right calls it "fake news" on the other side of that coin. You proved it simply by replying. Everyone is so convinced of their own infallibility no one's ever going to give any credence to the other side... We're all just on opposite sides of opinions.

I agree with what you said.  However, as the starting point in regards to the Joe/Hunter Biden issue, can we all agree that career politicians becoming multi multi millionaires during and after their time in office is something that raises any number of serious questions that need answered?  Let's agree on that and go from there.  Folks on both sides like to throw out the "term limits" issue.  I wholeheartedly agree that we need term limits for folks just like Joe Biden.  There is absolutely no way you can spend almost 5 decades in DC and not be wrapped up in endless backdoor deals where someone, somewhere now has leverage on you.  In this case it would seem that China and Ukraine potentially hold the leverage.  Dirty money, kickbacks and bribes become normal to people like Biden who have been there that long.  Hell, he probably no longer sees anything wrong with it because it has gone on so long.  

I just don't see how anyone can deny the fact that Biden is surrounded by shady issues.  Just look at his houses.  He bought a 10,000 square foot house in 1974.  In 1996 he built a house on 4 acres that is almost 7000 square feet.  All this while being consistently listed as one of the poorest members of the senate.  I just don't buy the book sales and speaking fees line anymore.  Call me cynical, I just don't.  

Sim posted a video that details Biden's plagiarism and lies about school.  While it may not be surprising and good for a laugh or two, it shows what his character is like.  He is willing to lie, cheat and steal to get ahead in politics.  That is what dirty politicians do.  

[Sua Sponte]

1 hour ago, Sim said:

Could you remind why Biden quit his presidential run in the 70's?  

 

Could you point when he ran in the 70s? Do you mean 1988?

[Sua Sponte]

6 minutes ago, lloyd christmas said:

I agree with what you said.  However, as the starting point in regards to the Joe/Hunter Biden issue, can we all agree that career politicians becoming multi multi millionaires during and after their time in office is something that raises any number of serious questions that need answered?  Let's agree on that and go from there.  Folks on both sides like to throw out the "term limits" issue.  I wholeheartedly agree that we need term limits for folks just like Joe Biden.  There is absolutely no way you can spend almost 5 decades in DC and not be wrapped up in endless backdoor deals where someone, somewhere now has leverage on you.  In this case it would seem that China and Ukraine potentially hold the leverage.  Dirty money, kickbacks and bribes become normal to people like Biden who have been there that long.  Hell, he probably no longer sees anything wrong with it because it has gone on so long.  

I just don't see how anyone can deny the fact that Biden is surrounded by shady issues.  Just look at his houses.  He bought a 10,000 square foot house in 1974.  In 1996 he built a house on 4 acres that is almost 7000 square feet.  All this while being consistently listed as one of the poorest members of the senate.  I just don't buy the book sales and speaking fees line anymore.  Call me cynical, I just don't.  

Sim posted a video that details Biden's plagiarism and lies about school.  While it may not be surprising and good for a laugh or two, it shows what his character is like.  He is willing to lie, cheat and steal to get ahead in politics.  That is what dirty politicians do.  

https://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/29/us/professional-board-clears-biden-in-two-allegations-of-plagiarism.html

Do your last two sentences apply to Trump and the GOP as well?

 

[lloyd christmas]

50 minutes ago, Sua Sponte said:

https://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/29/us/professional-board-clears-biden-in-two-allegations-of-plagiarism.html

Do your last two sentences apply to Trump and the GOP as well?

 

NYC Steel Workers Union < China/Ukraine IRT leverage.

I do not believe Trump is the most honest person out there.  I can promise you that.  However, I do not think it is fair to compare a businessman to a career politician who used his position in government to generate wealth for himself and his family.  Same for the Clintons, Obamas and any member of the GOP that has done the same.  

[17D_guy]

8 minutes ago, lloyd christmas said:

I  do not believe Trump is the most honest person out there.

Come on man...stop quibbling about this shit.  He is simply dishonest, says what he thinks will work in the moment or not and goes back on his word.  Both politically and in business.  Because one is in the "free market/private industry" doesn't make it better or worse than someone who's been in "public service" their whole life.
 

Quote

 I can promise you that.  However, I do not think it is fair to compare a businessman to a career politician who used his position in government to generate wealth for himself and his family.  Same for the Clintons, Obamas and any member of the GOP that has done the same.  

So, I know for one thing when I had to deal with Boxer AND Feinstein as my Senators digging into how they got so rich (and their families...Mr. Boxer in particular) was there's no insider trading for them.  So they can hear about a deal, or know how legislation is going to go.  I think this has since been changed because of those shit-ass republicans who took the classified briefs and started selling stock before the public getting in trouble.  This COULD explain it, but there's obviously more nefarious ways "Uncle Joe" coulda made his money.

But lets not act like Trump hasn't done the exact same thing for his family, example #1 - The Trump Foundation.

Also, personal opinion only, but to think that there's more leverage on Joe than there is on Donny...I'm hard pressed to believe that.

3 hours ago, Sim said:

https://rumble.com/embed/v84seh/?pub=264yz   ...."criticism" 

So...no, you can't.  This isn't fucking Twitter, stop being a shit-post crusader, lol.

[17D_guy]

3 hours ago, Sim said:

https://rumble.com/embed/v84seh/?pub=264yz   ...."criticism" 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/18/business/media/new-york-post-hunter-biden.html ...."story"

[17D_guy]

4 hours ago, slackline said:

No issues in particular. Everything from social injustice to fiscal discipline in here seems to be covered by educated people. If you're able to get past some people's (both sides) smug attitude of thinking they're the only one in here that knows anything, there's actually a lot to be learned. Maybe I'm just the only idiot on BO.net that doesn't know everything. Meh...

I actually have a policy question.  What is the Republican answer for Health Care?  ACA's been out for years, best I've heard is more HSA/FSA and "let states deal with it."

Those don't help with people that really need healthcare, though they do appeal to my political leanings.  I've had family members born with chronic medical conditions I've mentioned before, bankrupting their families.  FSA/HSA ain't gonna help with that.

Best I can find for Donny is - https://www.promiseskept.com/achievement/overview/healthcare/ which doesn't tell me anything about future plans, and his campaign site lacks anything on it.  Funny the "Shop" link is the biggest up top.

Best I can find for Joey - https://joebiden.com/healthcare/, plus there's a ton of "plan" links (didn't find Green Deal...also didn't look hard) for what they want.

[Guardian]

Start with the assumption that health care is not a right and the US currently has the best healthcare system in the world (not talking insurance but the system of providing health care).

Now talk.

[Breckey]

We as a country have determined that we want certain segments of the population to have government supported health care and have for more than 50 years. Why is expanding this out to include others a bad thing if the voting populous determines that is what they want? 

[Prozac]

9 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Start with the assumption that health care is not a right and the US currently has the best healthcare system in the world (not talking insurance but the system of providing health care).

Now talk.

How do you separate the insurance aspect from healthcare? I’m not sure there’s a conversation to be had about the”best healthcare system in the world” without considering insurance in the equation. As far as “healthcare is not a right”, it’s abundantly clear that the majority of Americans would like it to be. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/03/most-continue-to-say-ensuring-health-care-coverage-is-governments-responsibility/ 

[slackline]

Start with the assumption that health care is not a right and the US currently has the best healthcare system in the world (not talking insurance but the system of providing health care).

Now talk.

I’m curious as to what qualifies the US healthcare system as the best in the world. Is it the fact that the best possible care that exists happens to be in the US?

What good does something that is unattainable to a slew of Americans do? It might as well not exist to them.

Should getting decent healthcare really be something that drives people into the red? Why? Don’t we have a duty to our fellow man to help them out? The system in place now, doesn’t work for a lot of people. Without insurance and pretty solid job security I’d be in major debt through zero fault of my own. Health issues are someone else’s problem until you or someone close to you is fighting them...

This one is more philosophical than an actual question: So, happiness is a right, but being healthy to enjoy it isn’t? I’m just curious.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[brickhistory]

Biden's "kid" is a 50-something year old grown ass man.  I believe he's a grandparent for Christ's sake...

But those arguing against his being included in the mud fest sure seem ok with anyone with a last name of Trump being slimed, including a teenager because they are related to "bad orange man" so it's ok to do so.

That said, although there are some other financial shenanigans Hunter is likely to see prison time over (look for an Indian casino thing along with one business partner in jail, the other just had his sentence confirmed after appeal), cashing in on a famous last name is not likely one of them.

Where the criminal acts come in is with whatever federal officials aided/abetted/contributed/were part of a conspiracy as part of that cashing in.

"You got six hours to fire the prosecutor or you aren't getting the billion dollars" isn't a good look as part of that.

Neither is using Air Force 2 as your calling card to score personal financial success.  

The veracity of the laptop and contents have been more than proven to include, released today, a physical receipt left at the repair shop and signed by Hunter.

Biden is now officially hiding in his basement since yesterday.  For "debate prep."  That sure is convenient that the press isn't hounding him over this scandal and letting him prepare.  I'm sure they'd give Trump the same courtesy.

Not to mention the deletion of foreign policy as a topic as agreed to previously by both candidates and has been historically precedented in these debates.  Wonder why that deletion?

Finally, and the big takeaway from Hunter-gate, is the deliberate squelching of a major news story by supposedly "neutral" IT providers.  By taking their stance, both Facebook and Twitter have declared themselves as publishers.  I hope the FCC and/or Congress act accordingly.

 

edited to add:  Talking head lawyer Jeffrey Tobin of way too many liberal outlets and impeachment cheerleader was "given time off to deal with personal issues" after being caught spanking his monkey on a business zoom call.  

 

 

Oh, and our deficit is now 3.1 trillion this year.  What could possibly go wrong?

Edited October 19, 2020 by brickhistory

[jazzdude]

Start with the assumption that health care is not a right and the US currently has the best healthcare system in the world (not talking insurance but the system of providing health care).

Now talk.

Need more information... What defines "best" regarding healthcare? This is probably the fundamental question regarding healthcare policy. So what is best? Cutting edge technologies and research in treatments? Access to basic care at adorable prices? Access to basic care covered by taxes? Access to emergency/preventative/diagnostic care?

You also make a strong assumption that you can separate insurance from the healthcare system. So long as people may need to pay for medical treatments that they can't afford to pay out of pocket for, insurance will be a factor in the discussion. It's like saying car insurance should be made optional (especially if you believe healthcare is not a right, since most people don't consider driving a car a right).

As military members, it's easy to have a skewed opinion, as Tricare has pretty good coverage and is significantly cheaper than anything comparable on the open market.

[17D_guy]

8 minutes ago, jazzdude said:

As military members, it's easy to have a skewed opinion, as Tricare has pretty good coverage and is significantly cheaper than anything comparable on the open market.

This is one of the reasons I ask this question here.  I'm the only member of my current family generation that did the military thing. My Dad retired, got that Tricare, but emphatically urged us not to join.  Watching my brothers struggle through the financial crisis, and then medical issues really opened my eyes up to what it was costing for healthcare.

Then I married into a family w/Hemophilia.  From having eyes being open, to getting lemon juice squeezed in them.

There are competing opinions on here, but they're usually thought provoking enough and good conversation to make me think about what I want vs. what I think is right outside my little sphere.

Thanks Dudes and Dudettes.

[drewpey]

1 hour ago, Guardian said:

Start with the assumption that health care is not a right and the US currently has the best healthcare system in the world (not talking insurance but the system of providing health care).

Now talk.

Why can't we start here:

Are we as a culture ok with people falling into unrecoverable lifelong poverty and never returning to be productive taxpaying citizens for what amounts to losing a medical lottery?

I think the large majority of people would agree something should be done.  If so, what?

[Sim]

For the leftist. Watch why conservatives think Trump is good for the nation.  

[jazzdude]

This is one of the reasons I ask this question here.  I'm the only member of my current family generation that did the military thing. My Dad retired, got that Tricare, but emphatically urged us not to join.  Watching my brothers struggle through the financial crisis, and then medical issues really opened my eyes up to what it was costing for healthcare.

Then I married into a family w/Hemophilia.  From having eyes being open, to getting lemon juice squeezed in them.
There are competing opinions on here, but they're usually thought provoking enough and good conversation to make me think about what I want vs. what I think is right outside my little sphere.
Thanks Dudes and Dudettes.

Access to Tricare was probably the single most important factor is me deciding to take the pilot bonus (and stay to 20).

Pilot bonus put money in the bank/investment portfolio for my family if something were to happen to me (above and beyond SGLI), and check of the month would mean that even if I can't work after I reach military retirement, my family's basic needs could be met. But Tricare removes what I feel is the biggest risk to finances in retirement-healthcare costs.

Healthcare costs are probably the one big risk (in my opinion) that can ruin financial security, especially as you get closer to retirement (real retirement, and no longer working), and could potentially wipe out decades, or a lifetime, of careful financial planning.

Hell, it was hard enough to decide how much I was willing to pay when my pet cat went to the emergency vet; I can't imagine having a loved one going to the ER and having to set a price on their life because health insurance didn't cover the care (or cover enough with high deductables or co-insurance). Especially when I (eventually) am no longer working and living on a fixed income. What's the catastrophic cap for Tricare? $600 in a given year? It's low enough that as a major, it's a drop in the bucket in my emergency fund.

[HossHarris]

47 minutes ago, drewpey said:

Why can't we start here:

Are we as a culture ok with people falling into unrecoverable lifelong poverty and never returning to be productive taxpaying citizens for what amounts to losing a medical lottery?

I think the large majority of people would agree something should be done.  If so, what?

Where in the constitution does it say the federal government has a duty to protect the citizenry from financial ruin?

Edited October 20, 2020 by HossHarris

[Kiloalpha]

4 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

So the DNI, who reports to Trump, was nominated by Trump for the job, and been in the job since this past May, says that an email that was “verified” authentic from an anonymous source who sent it to Fox News, a media organization that is Pro-Trump, says it’s not a smear campaign?

Shocking 😂 

https://apnews.com/article/024b553e9a4ffb2716286dd134876f8a
 

“Yet Giuliani says foreign sources didn’t provide the Hunter Biden emails. He says a laptop containing the emails and intimate photos was simply abandoned in a Delaware repair shop and the shop owner reached out to Giuliani’s lawyer.”

Seems “authentic.” So, the repair shop owner random reached out to the lawyer of the lawyer who’s job is to find dirt on Joe Biden, the father of the owner of the purported laptop, who’s running against Trump for President? And he did this possibly without trying to, I dunno, contact the owner of said laptop?

Oh and the media outlets that are making a big deal of the emails? Fox News and The New York Post which are Pro-Trump.

Well, every DNI and director of our intelligence agencies are President-appointed. So every one of them is useless? Who would you trust then to determine if there is Russian interference? Adam Schiff?

It’s a wild story, but Hunter Biden wasn’t exactly on the straight and narrow during the time period this happened. It’s also worth noting that the shop owner didn’t immediately call Giuliani. He called the FBI, who seized the computer, never called him back, and *according to Giuliani* was told to “keep his mouth shut.” After a period of time he started reaching out to people who eventually put him in touch with Giuliani, where he gave him a copy.

I’m not taking any of this story as fact until I know more. But there’s a hell of a lot more meat here than the Ukraine impeachment. We have actual emails that corroborate a quid-pro-quo when paired with Biden’s comments to the CFR. Sure, you guys are upset at Trump playing golf and taking trips. I’m not happy about it, but it’s legal. Biden using his position as VP to enrich himself via international sources is a crime. They’re different. They might feel equally as outrageous morally, but you can’t put Trump in prison for playing golf. You can put Biden in prison for getting a payday via the Chinese.

Investigate it. Follow leads. Test sources. It’s literally your job as media. The fact they won’t even do that is outrageous. Our media was terrible before, but this might be the breaking point. They’ll investigate random sources if it’s against Trump but God forbid they do the same to the other side.

[lloyd christmas]

1 minute ago, HossHarris said:

Where in the constitution does it say the federal government has a duty to protect the citizenry from financial ruin?

It doesn't.  Even if health care is believed to be a "right", the gov doesn't subsidize any of our other rights provided by the constitution.  Why should health care be any different?  Especially when so many of us do not take care of ourselves.  

[Sim]

3 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/18/business/media/new-york-post-hunter-biden.html ...."story"

Meh. 

[jazzdude]

It doesn't.  Even if health care is believed to be a "right", the gov doesn't subsidize any of our other rights provided by the constitution.  Why should health care be any different?  Especially when so many of us do not take care of ourselves.  

Why should the government provide healthcare coverage for military families/dependants at extremely low cost to the member? Should service members pay insurance premiums comparable to the national average for premiums?

At least for the service member, you could argue they should have healthcare coverage to protect the investment made in the service member if they have a critical skill. Should service members be covered for a pre-existing condition, or for medical accidents that happen not in the direct line of duty (say, breaking your arm while skiing on leave)? Or pay for coverage to cover non-line of duty accidents?

The government subsidizes lots of things. Food stamps, social security, medical research, basic science research, education, arts, conservation of wilderness areas, roads, housing, etc. It also (heavily) subsidizes defense. Basically, it's all an investment in our society to hopefully make us all better, even if it's not a "right."

What about combat zone tax exemption? Why not eliminate that? What purpose does it serve, besides essentially being a pay raise for doing the job we signed up to do? (Especially since HFP/IDP also exists)