Apparently having "good hands" no longer matters....

[Hueypilot]

You always have the "Pilot has the control's". And force trim. Can't forget about the force trim.

Force trim...always wondered WTF they had in mind when they designed that system. It wants to be an autopilot, but it's not. I think they designed it to hold the cyclic while you drank your beer...

[B0neWs0]

....Thanks for the picture, but a simple 'No' would have sufficed.

Almost fell out of my chair on this one

[BattleRattle]

....Thanks for the picture, but a simple 'No' would have sufficed.

Not even a desert 1?

Edited May 17, 2013 by BattleRattle

[HeloDude]

.....you have to go to the desert before you can become a desert-1.

Tis' true...usually takes a good 3-4 weeks minimum to be able to correctly apply the new binary standard.

[BattleRattle]

.....you have to go to the desert before you can become a desert-1.

Tis' true...usually takes a good 3-4 weeks minimum to be able to correctly apply the new binary standard.

I've been out here for a few weeks and I think most people here would agree that she is approaching a 1. YMMV...

Edited May 17, 2013 by BattleRattle

[Homestar]

Certainly you still need to be a good stick & rudder pilot in today's world (in case you need to ditch into the Hudson or get into Salerno at max gross) but the CNS/ATM/RNAV/GPS world of the heavy future is heavily reliant on automation for safe separation of aircraft, and pilots will need to be comfortable with the ins-and-outs of their automation with airspace becoming more and more dense (especially over the ocean and in Europe).

Do FAIPs go to SERE before becoming FAIPs? That would explain the breaking of rule #1 (NEVER talk to the media).

[stract]

Every Air Force flying unit should have a Companion Trainer. And it should probably be a piston-powered aircraft that has only one instrument in the cockpit: an oil pressure gauge about 4 inches in diameter, smack in the middle of the panel.

can I have a Bell Model 47 instead?

[BADFNZ]

Do FAIPs go to SERE before becoming FAIPs? That would explain the breaking of rule #1 (NEVER talk to the media).

I think it depends on the base but we did at Laughlin.

[Fuzz]

she became a FAIP before they started sending them to SERE

[FUSEPLUG]

However much we want to fault her for these comments, I truly believe this is the way we are going as a force. "Why be good at (fill in the blank) when we can do it with modern technology?" For example, CBT's have proven to be the perfect cure to all of the woe's in the modern military.

[billy pilgrim]

However much we want to fault her for these comments, I truly believe this is the way we are going as a force. "Why be good at (fill in the blank) when we can do it with modern technology?" For example, CBT's have proven to be the perfect cure to all of the woe's in the modern military.

Last year I deployed to OEF and I flew on a C-17 from Manas to Bagram. I started BSing with the pilot and he tells me to grab a seat on the flight deck for the flight. I had never flown on a C-17 before so it was cool to see and the view is much better up front and it's a really scenic flight through Tjakistan or whatever it was. He probably hand flew for about ten minutes of the flight. It's awesome that the jet will do almost everything for you but there is always a danger of losing the basic pilot skills if you're always relying on the FMS.

As far as an Lt saying stupid shit - that shit is standard. The difference is that my forum was a squadron bar and hers was the AF times. Lt's take note.

[Booj]

Certainly you still need to be a good stick & rudder pilot in today's world (in case you need to ditch into the Hudson or get into Salerno at max gross) but the CNS/ATM/RNAV/GPS world of the heavy future is heavily reliant on automation for safe separation of aircraft, and pilots will need to be comfortable with the ins-and-outs of their automation with airspace becoming more and more dense (especially over the ocean and in Europe).

It took me a couple flights to remember that the autopilot and flight director don't talk like they did in a previous aircraft, but after a hundred hours in a jet/sim, can someone still be bad unsafe at using automation?

[kbronc]

It took me a couple flights to remember that the autopilot and flight director don't talk like they did in a previous aircraft, but after a hundred hours in a jet/sim, can someone still be bad unsafe at using automation?

Not sure if serious, but yes absolutely... numerous occasions, many times with major additional contributing factors.

Focusing on only Airline crashes...

http://en.wikipedia....ines_Flight_965

http://en.wikipedia....Air_Flight_3407

Yea it is wikipedia, but I couldn't find the NTSB reports easily. Pilots with thousands of hours, with improper reliance on George.

AA has a great video that they show in indoc, where an individual breaks down the CRM factors of "highly automated" aircraft that was created due in part to the 965 flight if I remember correctly. If someone knows of a link to the video on the internet it is a valuable resource. It outlines why most airline SOPs, and Vol3 autopilot procedures were created.

back to your regular scheduled program...

Edit for video link

"Children of Magenta"

http://youtu.be/h3kREPMzMLk

Now off to re-watch it to see if its how I remember the video after 6 years.

Edited May 18, 2013 by kbronc

[Fuzz]

Not sure if serious, but yes absolutely... numerous occasions, many times with major additional contributing factors.

Focusing on only Airline crashes...

http://en.wikipedia....ines_Flight_965

http://en.wikipedia....Air_Flight_3407

Yea it is wikipedia, but I couldn't find the NTSB reports easily. Pilots with thousands of hours, with improper reliance on George.

AA has a great video that they show in indoc, where an individual breaks down the CRM factors of "highly automated" aircraft that was created due in part to the 965 flight if I remember correctly. If someone knows of a link to the video on the internet it is a valuable resource. It outlines why most airline SOPs, and Vol3 autopilot procedures were created.

back to your regular scheduled program...

Edit for video link

"Children of Magenta"

http://youtu.be/h3kREPMzMLk

Now off to re-watch it to see if its how I remember the video after 6 years.

Wow great video, especially for someone like me as a new copilot.

[YC]

Yea it is wikipedia, but I couldn't find the NTSB reports easily.

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/

Flight 665 registration N651AA

Flight 3407 registration N200WQ

[LoneStar]

Seriously an awesome video, great lesson.

[snoopyeast]

The FAA released a Safety Alert a few months ago encouraging manual flying.

http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/safo/all_safos/media/2013/SAFO13002.pdf

[sky_king]

I try to hand fly from parking to level off, and from TOD back to parking. Then again, my autopilot is older than I am. The airplane itself is almost older than my dad.

[kbronc]

If I had my way the video would be distributed AF wide, it probably deserves it's own thread here.

[BFM this]

If I had my way the video would be distributed AF wide, it probably deserves it's own thread here.

Why the hell isn't it a syllabus event already?

Oh wait, it probably runs counter to some contractors statement of work or other queep.

[Techsan]

I try to hand fly from parking to level off, and from TOD back to parking. Then again, my autopilot is older than I am. The airplane itself is almost older than my dad.

Have you flown any of the newer RNAV arrivals into a busy Class B airspace? We have a few into DC (Freedom 1 being one of them) that will totally kick your ass if you are hand flying. Hell, they'll kick your ass if your jet isn't VNAV capable, since they'll always give you the "descend via".

[sky_king]

RNAV? What's that? You assume my $350M aircraft is capable of flying this.

[Muscle2002]

Reliance on automation and how to design aircraft failure modes for pilots who only know highly augmented aircraft was a major theme at a recent flight test safety conference. There are some interesting presentations (pdf format) located towards the bottom of the page.

http://www.flighttestsafety.org/2012-austria

[Swanee]

Send the average pilot (civilian or military) out for a DME arc or NDB hold with no GPS and watch what happens.

So what you're saying that is Naval Aviators who fly around the boat are above average? ;) We fly off of a (moving) TACAN while getting to and holding in the Marshal stack every time we come back to trap. There are no GPS approaches at the boat. (Hell, the Hornet doesn't have the capability to shoot a GPS approach, or even a civilian ILS- we are TACAN only)

[BolterKing]

So what you're saying that is Naval Aviators who fly around the boat are above average? ;) We fly off of a (moving) TACAN while getting to and holding in the Marshal stack every time we come back to trap. There are no GPS approaches at the boat. (Hell, the Hornet doesn't have the capability to shoot a GPS approach, or even a civilian ILS- we are TACAN only)

Read gravedigger.

We do DME arcs on a daily basic at night around the boat. The only two approaches the Hornet can even shoot are TACAN and PAR. Our ILS is boat specific and worthless anywhere else. NDB hold? Really? Go hold in Marshall off a tacan fix, that's moving at 30 knots. And hit your timing +\- 10s, because the guys in front of you and behind will hit theirs and that timing is critical to everyone having a clear deck to get aboard first pass. GPS? Ha.