Generals perks exposed... Good read... Thought?

[Stiffler]

http://m.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/petraeus-scandal-puts-four-star-general-lifestyle-under-scrutiny/2012/11/17/33a14f48-3043-11e2-a30e-5ca76eeec857_story.html

[Fuzz]

Really good read, though I really don't think it does some aspects justice like the personal staff part. There was one sentence about why they needed personal aides.

[pawnman]

How about the perk where when you really, really screw up you retire with an annual pension that's more than the average person takes home while working?

[Toro]

We have rated Captains being forced to separate while active duty folks are employed bagging leaves for a 4-star. Great priorities.

[Guest]

Petraeus cultivated his fame by grasping, before most of his comrades, how the narrative of modern warfare is shaped not just on the battlefield but among the chattering class back home. He invited book authors to accompany him, granted frequent interviews to journalists, fostered close relationships with Washington think tanks and embraced political leaders on both sides of the aisle.

This.

[Standby]

“Mullen’s got guys over there who are fixing meals for him, and I’m shoving something into the microwave. And I’m his boss.”

Boo-######ing hoo.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Standby

[17D_guy]

“There is something about a sense of entitlement and of having great power that skews people’s judgment,” Gates said last week.

Ya think?

Glad I got to be one of those enlisted guy for Gen Hobbins (former USAFE CC). That dude was awesome and seemed to break the whole "judgement skewed" thing.

And don't forget the AF has more Gen's per capita than all the other services.

Edited November 19, 2012 by 17D_guy

[DFRESH]

I read this thread title to mean that they had pics of Broadwell's nips... thanks for nothing Stiffler.

[Azimuth]

Ya think?

Glad I got to be one of those enlisted guy for Gen Hobbins (former USAFE CC). That dude was awesome and seemed to break the whole "judgement skewed" thing.

And don't forget the AF has more Gen's per capita than all the other services.

So he's the guy who endorsed you for OTS?

[17D_guy]

So he's the guy who endorsed you for OTS?

Nope. I was in the base Comm Sq, just assigned as his support. Had Col. Bacon (now Gen) LOR in my pkg (STS). That was after it got through a chief who thought I shouldn't be nominated since all my EPRs weren't firewall 5's; 2 were 5's, but had markdowns.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

WTF is it with people over the past few years not being content with what they have, and being content with what others have, no matter what someone else might have? This whole "I'm doing poorly because you're doing well" and "you don't deserve that" mentality I find to be particularly toxic. If you want something, go out and WORK to earn it, don't get your undergarments constricted over what you feel you're entitled to, or your opinions of the possessions of others.

[Guest]

It isn't new. It is just being amplified by both ends of the spectrum.

[nsplayr]

...Col. Bacon (now Gen)...

Sounds delicious.

[HeloDude]

WTF is it with people over the past few years not being content with what they have, and being content with what others have, no matter what someone else might have? This whole "I'm doing poorly because you're doing well" and "you don't deserve that" mentality I find to be particularly toxic. If you want something, go out and WORK to earn it, don't get your undergarments constricted over what you feel you're entitled to, or your opinions of the possessions of others.

You'd have to ask the liberals like Nsplayr--fortunately for him, the class warfare has helped expand the Dem base.

Envy is a horrible thing...but it does get votes.

[pawnman]

WTF is it with people over the past few years not being content with what they have, and being content with what others have, no matter what someone else might have? This whole "I'm doing poorly because you're doing well" and "you don't deserve that" mentality I find to be particularly toxic. If you want something, go out and WORK to earn it, don't get your undergarments constricted over what you feel you're entitled to, or your opinions of the possessions of others.

It's not necessarily jealousy. But in an age where we are cutting flying hours, RIFing people who want to stay (while simultaneously complaining about our retention problems), and retiring aircraft, I think a responsible leader would ask just how important is it to have a chef, leaf-bagger, on-call 737, personal motorcade, etc? We're looking for places to cut the budget, and a lot of these seem like pretty clean kills. You look at the perks these guys have, compared to what the men they are leading contend with, and tell me that it's a smart use of our money.

It's also interesting to me that these guys end up with LARGER checks after they retire than when they are on active duty. For the rest of their lives. And if you really screw up, your punishment is that they announce your retirement to the media before you collect a quarter-million a year for life.

[BB Stacker]

WTF is it with people over the past few years not being content with what they have, and being content with what others have, no matter what someone else might have? This whole "I'm doing poorly because you're doing well" and "you don't deserve that" mentality I find to be particularly toxic. If you want something, go out and WORK to earn it, don't get your undergarments constricted over what you feel you're entitled to, or your opinions of the possessions of others.

Pretty sure Bob Gates has WORKED to get where he's at in life, he just sees a bit of an issue with spending taxpayer dollars for someone to have military members sweep up their leaves just because they wear four stars on their collar seeing as how we're in an era where we are kicking people out.

You'd have to ask the liberals like Nsplayr--fortunately for him, the class warfare has helped expand the Dem base.

Envy is a horrible thing...but it does get votes.

Are you seriously equating calling out flag officers for getting insane levels of perks to class warfare? Again, I would've thought the idea of flag officer perks being a little much would be a gimme given the rending of garments here about the RIFing of rated officers, but I guess getting leaves raked on the taxpayer's dime is more important than avoiding hollowing out our force.

edit: and yes, before anyone says it, I understand that these perks are a drop in the bucket relatively speaking compared to funding new weapons systems or manpower or whatever. It's about perception. The American people are not going to be supportive of a large defense budget when they see stuff about generals having personal leaf baggers and private aircraft, and nor should they, frankly.

Edited November 19, 2012 by BB Stacker

[HeloDude]

Are you seriously equating calling out flag officers for getting insane levels of perks to class warfare? Again, I would've thought the idea of flag officer perks being a little much would be a gimme given the rending of garments here about the RIFing of rated officers, but I guess getting leaves raked on the taxpayer's dime is more important than avoiding hollowing out our force.

I was speaking in general terms of our country's citizens and culture.

In terms of the military, I have no problems paying 4-star Generals what they make as they have earned it. As for the raking of their leaves, it's silly, but not much sillier than a bunch of the other crap the DoD wastes money on everyday. I'm all for getting rid of the waste--but that's not out of envy, rather because I desire efficiency.

[Learjetter]

It's a helluva lot more efficient to pay a two-striper to rake leaves than a four star. You think the President should rake leaves at the White House? That the VP cut his own grass at Annapolis?

The "perks" the SES/COCOMS/MAJCOM CCs "have" are SPECIFICALLY designed to increase their efficiency and effectiveness.

It's on them to NOT engage in abuse of those "perks."

[Vertigo]

It's a helluva lot more efficient to pay a two-striper to rake leaves than a four star.

Why can't the four star hire his own lawn guys out of his own pocket if he wants his yard taken care of for him?

[BB Stacker]

The "perks" the SES/COCOMS/MAJCOM CCs "have" are SPECIFICALLY designed to increase their efficiency and effectiveness.

One of the points of the article is that civilian SES types don't get anywhere near the same amount of perks as uniformed flag officers, despite them performing roughly on the same level (I think it's fair to say that the SECDEF and CJCS are roughly equivalent as far as workload, not to mention that the CJCS ostensibly works for the SECDEF.) If those perks are essential to operating effectively and efficiently as you claim, then SES types like the SECDEF should get them. Since Bob Gates was able to fill the post of SECDEF effectively without some of them (obviously secure government airlift is a legitimate requirement, but he didn't have a household staff for example), I don't understand why it was essential for Mike Mullen to have all of them to do a roughly equivalent job just because he wore a uniform instead of a suit to work.

Edited November 19, 2012 by BB Stacker

[Homestar]

Why can't the four star hire his own lawn guys out of his own pocket if he wants his yard taken care of for him?

Good point.

I don't really have a problem with the executive jets for trans though. It projects power much like Air Force One when you can take your CCDRs from AOR to America for a working lunch and back again the next day.

I've heard that Mullens specifically and Navy admirals in general are the most keen on the perks.

[FallingOsh]

Why can't the four star hire his own lawn guys out of his own pocket if he wants his yard taken care of for him?

I think you guys are taking this a bit too far. The only place I've lived in base housing was Sheppard and contracted landscapers mowed everyone's lawn during the summer. It was nice, but I didn't consider it a perk of being in the military.

[Vertigo]

I think you guys are taking this a bit too far. The only place I've lived in base housing was Sheppard and contracted landscapers mowed everyone's lawn during the summer. It was nice, but I didn't consider it a perk of being in the military.

That was, most likely, a part of the contract to maintain the housing when it was turned over to civilians.

That's not the same as having a team of enlisted guys to do your yard work, wash your car, iron your clothes, etc

[Toro]

I think you guys are taking this a bit too far. The only place I've lived in base housing was Sheppard and contracted landscapers mowed everyone's lawn during the summer. It was nice, but I didn't consider it a perk of being in the military.

Anomaly. Six bases - never seen that.

[pawnman]

It's a helluva lot more efficient to pay a two-striper to rake leaves than a four star. You think the President should rake leaves at the White House? That the VP cut his own grass at Annapolis?

The "perks" the SES/COCOMS/MAJCOM CCs "have" are SPECIFICALLY designed to increase their efficiency and effectiveness.

It's on them to NOT engage in abuse of those "perks."

So at what level do we no longer need our military members functioning at peak efficiency? Should captains have someone raking their lawns during ORIs? Maybe WG/CCs should have personal chefs?

It's a lame answer at best that these guys couldn't afford to hire a landscaper and get the wife to make dinner.