Toro Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I wasn't aware you could FOIA a safety report...even if it was a Class E HATR. HATRs are not privileged like most mishaps, so the information can be released. Having read the safety report, I will say that they got most of the facts right, but there's a couple goofy points of emphasis. The report, obtained by the Tribune under the federal Freedom of Information Act, does not address why the C-17A Globemaster III was flying from Italy to MacDill, nor does it identify who was calling the shots. The flight July 20 originally was bound for Kabul, Afghanistan, the report says, but the destination was changed to Andrews Air Force Base outside Washington, then changed to MacDill — an hour before takeoff — by the unidentified aircraft "user." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockheedFix Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Sounds like these guys had a rough couple days before this flight. Two days off in Rome and almost non-existent flight planning facilities in which to read through the flight plan that somebody else did for them? Instead of punishment they should be submitted for DFCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergman Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 At least the gear was down. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sputnik Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Never gets old. Anyone know what happened to the crew? Q-3s for all my friends? Or were there downgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slc Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Sounds like these guys had a rough couple days before this flight. Two days off in Rome and almost non-existent flight planning facilities in which to read through the flight plan that somebody else did for them? Instead of punishment they should be submitted for DFCs. Checks, if this were a Herc crew, we would've been coordinating dips, 1801, PPR, lodging, trans, etc. etc. IFM package, what's that?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepileit Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Yes. You don't need to know. x2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Spike Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Yes. You don't need to know. x2. The first rule about C-17LandAtTheWrongAirport Club.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepileit Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Shack, I think, wait, let me check on that... There is actually a good lesson to be learned from the chain of events, and "expectation error" would not be a wasted study in this career, generically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeatherManC130 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 "In addition, because of the changes in destination, the crew was unable to review the physical layout of MacDill during a preflight briefing, something Air Force rules recommend be done as often as possible." I guess after watching the 2nd Season of 24, there was not enough time during the flight 10 hour flight to at least glance at the Airfield Diagram/FLIP. Wxman 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Hungus Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Anyone know what happened to the crew? Q-3s for all my friends? Or were there downgrades. Can you land a Pred at the wrong airport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Spike Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) "In addition, because of the changes in destination, the crew was unable to review the physical layout of MacDill during a preflight briefing, something Air Force rules recommend be done as often as possible." I guess after watching the 2nd Season of 24, there was not enough time during the flight 10 hour flight to at least glance at the Airfield Diagram/FLIP. Wxman Edited January 24, 2013 by Buddy Spike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepileit Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 24? Puleaz... Try Top Chef, streamed live. We challenge the stews to match the meals from just the coolers with the comfort pallet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy pilgrim Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Can you land a Pred at the wrong airport? You can but it is a Q- for SA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackjack Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I caught a ride on a C-17 not to long ago. I was a PAX but the AC asked me if I wanted to ride up front. Having never been in a C-17 before I jumped at the opportunity. There were two Loads and they both stayed down stairs for the take off. I'm not sure what there Vol 3 says about monitoring PAX, but as soon as we where wheels up one of them hit the bunk. Everything went pretty smooth except one moment when the IP took the jet. There wasn't a headset for me so I didn't here the ATC transmission, but what I could make of it the Co dialed in the wrong heading, IP took the aircraft and corrected, no big deal, it happens. When we were getting ready for the decent I gave up my seat so one of the young Airmen could sit for the approach and landing, I see it all the time so it's not that big of a deal for me. There was a second MX guy who sat in the other seat because he hadn't seen it before either. I thought nothing of it because I figured he would get kicked out once the Load got up there. That never happened. The Load was woken up and went straight from the bunk back downstairs and stayed there. After talking to a few Loads I found out that this wasn't something out of the ordinary. They aren't taught how to read approach plates and they don't spend much time up front. I think that's a CRM fail. Having an extra set of eyes can never be a bad thing. Especially if its been a long day and a pair of those eyes can be rested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetfreezer Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Can you land a Pred at the wrong airport? As long as it's in the wrong country... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Spike Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I caught a ride on a C-17 not to long ago. I was a PAX but the AC asked me if I wanted to ride up front. Having never been in a C-17 before I jumped at the opportunity. There were two Loads and they both stayed down stairs for the take off. I'm not sure what there Vol 3 says about monitoring PAX, but as soon as we where wheels up one of them hit the bunk. Everything went pretty smooth except one moment when the IP took the jet. There wasn't a headset for me so I didn't here the ATC transmission, but what I could make of it the Co dialed in the wrong heading, IP took the aircraft and corrected, no big deal, it happens. When we were getting ready for the decent I gave up my seat so one of the young Airmen could sit for the approach and landing, I see it all the time so it's not that big of a deal for me. There was a second MX guy who sat in the other seat because he hadn't seen it before either. I thought nothing of it because I figured he would get kicked out once the Load got up there. That never happened. The Load was woken up and went straight from the bunk back downstairs and stayed there. After talking to a few Loads I found out that this wasn't something out of the ordinary. They aren't taught how to read approach plates and they don't spend much time up front. I think that's a CRM fail. Having an extra set of eyes can never be a bad thing. Especially if its been a long day and a pair of those eyes can be rested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurelySerious Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 How many people in an F-16 does it take to figure out if they're at the right airport? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 How many people in an F-16 does it take to figure out if they're at the right airport? We don't really have the gas to get outside of visual range of the airport so it's not an issue. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialD Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) the Co dialed in the wrong heading Holy shit! IP took the aircraft and corrected, no big deal, it happens. Oh whew! Edited January 25, 2013 by SocialD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepileit Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 At the "risk" of keeping this thread bumped, I'll chuckle and add- I'm not sure how the tanker thing got so easy or hard or the C-17 so overtaxed that we'd train the Boomer/LM to read an approach plate. NOT saying there isn't the time and the place, but there SHOULD not be the need to go to a training course. 8th deployment and looking for something new to learn? OK. I've spent plenty of time sweating and freezing downstairs working on the GROUND with the LMs and load teams, WHEN it made sense. Doesn't mean I needed or wanted to be trained. In flight you may have 0 pax, 1, 39, 41, 169. Different loads, rules and LMs make too many variables to standardize a LM chart reader. But, like all bad ideas, it keeps coming back each new generation. Then comes the indignant end-around to still try and have it pushed. At least in crew cockpit jets- If 2 pilots can't fly IMC, non-radar, to Mins or a missed with an engine out, anywhere in the world, anytime in a duty period, not hit something, find the right airport and leave the jet in a reuseable condition without a Class-something, you're doing something wrong as a culture, not an MDS/MAJCOM/pissing contest stratification inserted here... I'll show a LM how to read a low level chart, just as an appreciation. I'll let them up during flight- some get it, some could fly it, some don't want to be near it. Should I have them mission plan it and brief the turns? Night? NVG? IMC? Really? Kind of like an approach plate. Same skin in the game. Lots of words to say good intent, hard to apply. The rest of the post cracks me up. This is why I like letting little kids ride in the cockpit if I have open seats. No cameras/youtube/feeds/blogs/etc for them to go post on, just an impression to be taken-in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 At least in crew cockpit jets- If 2 pilots can't fly IMC, non-radar, to Mins or a missed with an engine out, anywhere in the world, anytime in a duty period, not hit something, find the right airport and leave the jet in a reuseable condition without a Class-something, you're doing something wrong as a culture, not an MDS/MAJCOM/pissing contest stratification inserted here... This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 This. That Let's not forget some guys wrecked a C-5 at Dover because someone thought it was a good idea to have the engineers back-up the pilots instead of doing their job as engineers and watching the engines. For those that forgot the C-5 mishap at Dove the Engineers had the pilots display up on their MFD instead of the engine display so they could back the pilots up on altitudes and what not. Yes, I know, the pilots didn't do their jobs either that day, but the "extra set of eyes" did nothing to stop that train (C-5) wreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HercDude Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 A C-5 got airborne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFM this Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 A C-5 got airborne? Searched AF Times. Nothin. Sounds sketchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Not sure if Gen Mattis did anything for the crew behind the scenes, but according to the Tampa Bay Times, he had this to say: The young pilot did a good job landing, albeit on the wrong strip. The rest of the article is pretty weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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