What's wrong with the Air Force?

[FBomb]

FWIW, I found the slideshow at the link below on how Netflix manages its culture. Its long, but worth a read. Slides 26, 27, 35, 40-58, 67-68, 117, 121-123 are definitely worth a look. I doubt the AF could explain and defend what we do half as well.

https://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664

[ThreeHoler]

I hear Luke is about to have a boots on the ramp policy.

According to the much older craniums, it is where they only let the bonus takers fly.

[Finals]

What’s wrong with the Air Force? There are plenty of areas where one can point an elbow and the necessary changes aren’t going to happen overnight. Also, who says that there is anything wrong with the Air Force? There are always those that are looking to get ahead, not rock the ship and be yes men in order to advance etc. To them, there is NOTHING wrong with the Air Force.

Who is the Air Force hiring to be pilots anyway? Most people that want to fly are extremely motivated, talented individuals with a beyond normal desire to compete, win and think ahead. That type of individual has PLENTY of options in 2014. Service before Self may cut it for a few individuals but for how long? The entire process of being a PILOT in the AF is broken.

People: Come join an organization that will pay you less than a civilian job, move you every 2-3 years, tell you where to live and for some part, how to live. Deploy to shit holes for months on end and put the chance of divorce/family issues way beyond that of a 6-9, Monday-Friday, banker type. What’s the payoff for that awesomeness? Getting to fly military…wait, not getting fly military jets because during your 10 year commitment, you may only get 2-3 years in a fighter or spend 250-300 days away from home each year in a heavy. Then, after years of commitment and struggle head off to do something that is NOT piloting. So, score higher than other individuals trying to join the same organization, go through a gauntlet of mental/physical challenges and spend 30% of your commitment doing what you signed up for???????? WTF is right. What Doctor joins the Air Force and then gets told to be a nurse? What lawyer joins the Air Force and is then told to clerk? What Infantry officer joins the USMC and after three years gets told to be in charge of the chow hall? If you join to fly, then you should FLY. The pain in the ass to get a pilot slot is not worth NOT piloting.

The same individual graduating college that can fly in the Air Force can more than likely become a DEA Special Agent. Those guys get sent to 1 office and stay there. That’s home unless you WANT to move. They get to fight the drug war almost every day and serve their country. Nobody tells them at year 3 of their career that “fun” time is over, it is time to sit at a desk and look at TPS reports. So, they serve their country, stay in one place for a career if they want to and make over $100,000 a year in journeymen status. They get specialized training in pretty neat fields, get to carry/shoot firearms and be a part of something bigger than themselves. MOST guys after hearing those options are going to choose DEA over the USAF pilot route unless Top Gun is a never ending movie in their own head.

Places: Where is the great AFB that one would like to be stationed at? Ever pull out an old book showing what the USAF looked like in 1986/87 and see plenty of tiny little dots all over the globe denoting bases? Germany, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, England. You name it and the POTENTIAL was there. Not now and the future doesn’t look any brighter. If you are an F-15E Driver, you may get based in England. Other than that, there are no “foreign” options. There may be some “nice” places to live but some real back road, no thank you stations are the majority. The choices for a B-1/B-52 driver are just exhilarating. Or, one could be a six figure, service before self, badass DEA Agent in Miami/San Francisco/Chicago/New York/Los Angeles/Phoenix etc, etc, etc.

So, join the Air Force and get to see the worl…ah we mean Iraq/Afghanistan/Kuwait/Dubai/Bahrain/Diego Garcia as a change of pace when you are not boring holes in the sky over Mountain Home and 5 feet of snow. There USED to be a Myrtle Beach AFB way back when awesomeness was the norm. Imagine flying A-10s out of Myrtle Beach as a 20 something year old? Sorry kid, that’s not an option because well, that would be too much fun, or too cool or would actually be a desirable place to reside. Does BRAC even consider the fact that locations they choose SUCK big time and people actually have to live there??? How about we shut down Cannon AFB and reopen Castle as the “West Coast” AFSOC facility. Anybody rather live in California, a few hours outside of San Fran or LA as compared to the middle of New Mexico? Yeah, me neither, f#ck CA, beaches, beautiful women and something resembling a normal standard of living. Again, don’t you know you are in the military and a “Spartan” existence in the dustville areas of society is what makes this career great?

Things: Ahh, the reason one joins the AF. The wonderful things it has. Awesome shiny things that go fast, upside down, blow things up, carry more weight than any civilian thing, do in flight refueling etc, etc, etc. Wait, we don’t really want to promote those things anymore. That’s not who or what we are. We need to run around on the ground with the Army shooting M4s and pretending to be Special Forces. Where are the great flying machines and the opportunity to pursue a career, blasting around God’s creation in them? What happened to all the DIFFERENT kind of jets, located all around the world? Where are the dark and mysterious F-117s and its older track star brethren the SR-71? (Still waiting for both jets replacements)… Who is flying the EF-111s and creating electronic wizardry? (Hang out with the Navy and fly EA-18Gs in far less numbers) Where are the RF-4 pilot slots and the ability to see just how low and fast one can go? (See Predator suckage) Heck, where are the replacement up to 750 F-15Cs? Where did ALL THOSE PILOT slots go? What replacement aircraft and opportunities opened up when mother Air Force canned those birds? Wait, you mean there was no real direct replacement numerically????? You mean that today I can sit in an air conditioned container rather than blast by a shacked target taking photos from my SR-71 or RF-4? Yeah, that sounds awesome. Maybe I can fly around in a U-28 or take the MC-12 career path….that is now being given to the ANG. Air Force management has decided that they don’t need or want airplanes in the Air Force. How this works out long term will be looked into by RAND.

Rant almost done but just real quick for the fighter scene:

F-15C: Irrelevant since 2001 and doing circles in the sky over the great USA. Anybody think about the massive waste of resources and crew this program has drained? The Tomcat boys woke up and smelt the coffee after Desert Storm. They threw away the “Fighter” only mantra, hung BOMBS on their jets and contributed like nobody’s business. In fact, they put the Hornet fellas to shame. It sure would have been nice to see the Albino contributing in the fight for the past 10 years. Think of all the great things the community and jet could have done.

F-22: Awesome aircraft, awesome capability but less than 200 built. How on earth did we fumble this program? Far more capable than the F-15C and in reality it will never see the light of day because we have just enough assets to do nothing with. Shame on those that allowed this program to be whittled away, they sound like John Boehner telling me that he is going to finally “fight” Obama over the debt ceiling and producing nothing.

F-16: Squeezed for all the juice in its bones. No more revamps, remakes or add on equipment is going to help this bad boy carry on in a legitimate manner over the next 10-15 years. It’s been a stellar workhorse but it needs a great replacement. The same boys that brought us the F-22 program tell me about this wonder kid F-35 in massive numbers…..

F-15E: About the only asset that is in mid stride and in good order. Anyone know what the heck we are going to replace it with? Maybe we should get out in front of that now????

A-10: Great asset that everyone but its owner loves. An aircraft of opportunity to demonstrate how great the AF can be at assisting the Army/Marines and every time we turn around, the AF is trying to destroy them. The ANG would love to take the entire program. Think AD will let that happen? Not when such pearls like the MC-12 can be fought over to hand down.

U-28/Predator: Are these really military assets that anyone joins to fly? Really, you wanted to be an Air Force pilot so that you can shuttle rubber dog sh*t around in a Pilatus PC-12. Is it a great mission set that is vital? Hell yes. Does it qualify in the same breath as driving an A-10 or F-15E…..NO IT DOES NOT. Somehow though, you can be first out of JSUPT and get yourself a PC-12….just like a doctor, who went to med school and makes 69 times more $$$ than you do and is home every night to bang his trophy wife. How is your family doing after spending the vast majority of your time training/deploying?

The point is, since the early 90s the USAF hasn’t bought anything in large numbers other than C-17s and some C-130Js (and I could have made the same equipment comments for the AMC side of the house). Management has shut down bases and squadrons with a smile on their face and not cared one iota about the long term side effects. Well they’ve arrived. There aren’t enough pilots left, to fly the worn down relics on hand, to all the place Dr. Seuss told us about. The whole AEF idea is up the creek with no paddle and nobody at the yoke to straighten it out.

In the latest round of how to fix the AF, the people in charge have decided that the A-10 needs to go bye bye along with the KC-10, MC-12 and U-2. They tell me that the Global Turd is here to stay though because “Politics” has put too much pressure on them and they can’t get rid of it. Somehow, someway though, they continue to fight the good fight against “Politics” and have the A-10 marching right off into the sunset by hook or by crook. Ahh, the great MC-12 will be saved (Army has a similar program that does the same thing) but the A-10 (no replacement), KC-10 (no replacement) and U-2 (no replacement) are off to AMARG and the scrapper. No way to hand down the A-10, KC-10 or U-2 to the ANG boys? Bueller, Bueller..........

So, Beale AFB used to be home to the SR-71, U-2 and MC-12. Great aircraft, great mission set and great piloting. Now, it will be home to the RQ-4 Global Hawk and nobody leaves the ground. Ready to pull chalks and go be a real pilot elsewhere because it is not going to happen here brother.

[nsplayr]

Finals, first off, good rant...anyone want an over/under on glasses of scotch? Let's start the bidding at 5.

However...based on the following:

...or take the MC-12 career path.that is now being given to the ANG.

U-28/Predator: Are these really military assets that anyone joins to fly? Really, you wanted to be an Air Force pilot so that you can shuttle rubber dog sh*t around in a Pilatus PC-12. Is it a great mission set that is vital? Hell yes. Does it qualify in the same breath as driving an A-10 or F-15E..NO IT DOES NOT.

...you may want to stay in your lane. You may or may not know what the F you are talking about. Agreed though that probably no 11XX joined & went through UPT to end up fly unmanned forever.

IMHO the slick PC-12 NSAV guys have one of the best deals left on active duty right now in terms of deployment location and how they get to operate. Plus they built a really legit squadron bar.

Not sure how we solve the problems you've complained about, however I'm sure the board will be all ears for your ideas on how we re-open all those awesome European locations and plant every willing and capable ass in a sweet 5th gen fighter minus the associated Middle East commitments, alpha tours or desk work...

Edited February 18, 2014 by nsplayr

[BB Stacker]

Pretty sweet rant, but you clearly haven't actually ever talked to a federal LEO because you've got a pretty idealized (read: not remotely accurate) portrayal of their life. Not to say that the AF isn't hopelessly broken, because it is, just that the FLEO grass isn't necessarily greener.

Also Congress controls BRAC, not the USAF, the USAF even tried to close Cannon the last time around. It was all set up to be shut down but thanks to some last minute lobbying by New Mexico's Congressional delegation it got pulled from the list, which meant that the base sat open for over a year with no iron and no mission while the USAF tried to figure out what the hell they were going to do with it. I'm sure if the generals had their choice they would've much rather reopened Castle as the western home of AFSOC, but they don't control that, and if you haven't figured that out by now you might want to take a look about all the other shit that is out of the hands of those in uniform. Exhibit B regarding this: the Raptor. You want to talk about those who let that program be whittled away? The SECAF and CSAF both got shitcanned by their boss for their F-22 advocacy. Can't do all that much if the SECDEF, much less Congress, isn't on your side.

Also also I'm not even a pilot and I know you should probably stay in your lane WRT U-28/RPA/NSAV/etc.

[Butters]

Do you think that Southwest, Delta, AA, and United think about you differently than AFPC? I'm not saying AFPC is right. They're not. But talk to the Air Tran guys who lost their preferred routes and their Captain's seats after the Southwest merger. They aren't so convinced that Southwest had their best interest at heart. There are definitely opportunities out there in the airlines. If you can find those opportunities and capitalize on them then I think that is awesome, and I applaud you. But the Air Force is not dead. So take your toxic bitter attitude and gracefully fade away without imparting it on the young guys who read this forum and still look forward to flying jets for the Air Force. For some of us, it's actually still pretty bad ass.

Also what about the America West and US Airways pilots? How would you like have 16 years of senority US Air and find out a guy on probation at AW is about to jump ahead of you? Yeah, Air Force sucks and the Airlines rule!

BTW that still has not been settled and now they have the AA list to deal with.

US Airways pilots' seniority disputes may muddle merger

[Vetter]

It didn't muddle the merger.

[sqwatch]

This is probably the standard commander's thought process when someone has the audacity to not give 40 years of their life to bah gawd the most wonderful job in the history of mankind. It's as if people get downright offended that someone doesn't want to be exactly like them.

Now that I think about it, the things commanders tell people getting out is strikingly similar to what wife beaters tell their abused spouses. "Don't you dare leave! You're nothing without me! You'll be sorry!" Interesting,

Beerman offers a perspective other than the "AF sucks" mantra and he is compared to a wife beater. Real great stuff here. I miss rainman.

[MD]

Gents,

No one thinks less of you for getting out. Everyone needs to make a decision based upon their own personal circumstances, their family circumstances, and what they want to do in life. I honestly wish you the best and hope you find what you are looking for. There is nothing wrong with doing what you believe to be right for you and your family. However...

I don't understand where you are coming from with the attitude of "F this", "the Air Force is fucked", and we are going to be "a sad footnote of failure." Dude take that attitude and piss off. If you feel that it is time for you to leave, and that there are better things for you other places then please take advantage of that and go find those other things. But don't shit on the rest of us with your fucking terrible attitude. If you talked like that in my squadron I would punch you in the face and throw you out of my bar.

I agree with a lot of the points that you make about M words, PME, less flying, and queep, but I don't agree that we're fucked. That article from a few pages ago comes across as nothing more than whining. The writer makes some minor points and then comes across as an 8th grader complaining about why they didn't get to do what they want. Boo hoo I don't want to fly an F-35 its not an A-10. Say what again?

And these other comments about "service before self" being a cheap line that lemmings are fed by leadership and immediately do whatever they are asked is insulting as well. Can you explain that to me please? I don't get it. You guys must seriously have some terrible leadership, and some really shitty squadrons. Guys who say that to you deserve to be sacked. In 15 years in the Air Force I've never heard a commander say that. Doesn't mean some of them didn't think it, but I've clearly had a different experience than you have.

Do you think that Southwest, Delta, AA, and United think about you differently than AFPC? I'm not saying AFPC is right. They're not. But talk to the Air Tran guys who lost their preferred routes and their Captain's seats after the Southwest merger. They aren't so convinced that Southwest had their best interest at heart. There are definitely opportunities out there in the airlines. If you can find those opportunities and capitalize on them then I think that is awesome, and I applaud you. But the Air Force is not dead. So take your toxic bitter attitude and gracefully fade away without imparting it on the young guys who read this forum and still look forward to flying jets for the Air Force. For some of us, it's actually still pretty bad ass.

Cheers,

Beerman

Just because you haven't experienced what others may have, doesn't make their stories untrue. I simply passed what my OG said. Makes him look bad, and dilutes the concept of service before self. Too bad that to some in leadership, that indeed has become a "do as I say, not as I do" line of thinking for them, and some have either bastardized what that phrase should mean, or have twisted it to their own self-serving ends.

People experience what they experience, and its their right to feel the way they do. You have good units, bad units, and everything in-between. So while threatening to punch someone in the face and throw them out of your bar (or heritage room or whatever the hell latest retarded nomenclature is for it), while all Billy Badass sounding, isn't very productive and will serve to do nothing but get your ass VFR direct into pointless trouble, especially in todays AF. Live and let live. Not everywhere in the AF is the perfect place/wing/squadron that you've apparently been experiencing in your 15 years, so allow that there are actually different experiences out there, shocked as you may be to hear that, that run the full spectrum.

As I said, there are good places, and there are bad places, and everything in between.

For me, I looked at it like this: You have two buckets: the worthwhile bucket, and the bullshit bucket. Whichever one fills up first, will determine what you need to do, and it's different for everyone. In my case, the worthwhile bucket was hovering somewhere around 45%, while the bullshit bucket was overflowing. So, I made my desires known come assignment time with less than a year left on my ADSC. Offered to meet them halfway with assignments, but was at a point where just going to whatever craphole was just not going to work out for me after all this time of doing just that. There comes a time when the service can't be everything and all things. That sentiment wasn't appreciated, so 7 day was actually now an option. And I took it. Good experience, good training, but too much BS as time went on, having come in in the early 90s, to where it just wasn't worth it: the BS bucket remained overflowing. So, have a nice day AF. Our respective ends of our contract are met. That's how contracts work.

Edited February 18, 2014 by MD

[Tnkr]

Beerman offers a perspective other than the "AF sucks" mantra and he is compared to a wife beater. Real great stuff here. I miss rainman.

Unfair. While hyperbolic toward AF CCs (maybe), no one was calling Beerman a wife beater.

Words from MD. Damn tapatalk.

^^This. It's awesome to me to hear my contemporaries say they had a great experience in the AF. It makes me hopeful that it can be the organization I thought it was a dozen years ago. But there are some stovepipes that have become toxic. See the missileer thread for an example. I would contend that the tanker career field tries to eat its own. There's a reason we're called tanker lawyers. If and when I get to leave, it will be done with no ill will toward the service. 16 yo me would never have believed the awesome things he'd be doing in a few years. But when the AF makes it clear that it doesn't have a future for you, then read the writing and bow out gracefully, I say. Edited February 18, 2014 by Tnkr

[MD]

Pretty sweet rant, but you clearly haven't actually ever talked to a federal LEO because you've got a pretty idealized (read: not remotely accurate) portrayal of their life. Not to say that the AF isn't hopelessly broken, because it is, just that the FLEO grass isn't necessarily greener.

Well, I can say this at least regarding the air side; I work far less overall than was the 14-16 hours of squadron life, fly more than I did on average in the AF. Of course it's not a fighter or attack platform, but I do real world day-to-day mission work, both LE and rescue. The work is diverse and not just piloting, as I'm both a medic, rescue crewman, and tac team in addition to pilot. No PCS, based in my hometown, most of the agency BS is truly at paygrades far higher than mine.....at the regional and DC level, work overnights so there's few people and little overhead around, work weekends so it's double Sunday pay at all night differential pay, to include holiday pay.

Is it perfect? No. Is it better and more fruitful work than the AF? For me, yes....and in a practical sense, yes; I work interior, AF and DOD work exterior. The AF training and experience certainly helped, no doubt about that; but there's definitely more mission focus here and less overall BS. Of course, that's how the AF was when I joined long ago, so anything is prone to change, for better or for worse; I'm not blind to that. But I do remember my first week in the job post-academy and follow-on training: was working on some training paperwork and study, coming up on end of shift. Supervisor asks what I'm doing, I tell him I'm finishing up some paperwork.....be maybe another couple hours. Am told (paraphrase) "...get lost, shift is 8 hours and you're not on overtime pay today. Whatever you're working on will still be on your desk tomorrow when you get here. Have a nice day." That was kind of a shock to say the least, seeing as to what I was used to....things like coming to work on a leave day.....to do work.

Edited February 18, 2014 by MD

[ClearedHot]

Sadly, I am with you. I so badly wanted to serve and make a difference, but I find myself on the road for the 15th time with no regard for my future or that of my family. From leadership, to opstempo, to equipment, we are losing on all fronts. We were once the greatest Air Force on earth, but sadly at the rate we are currently going we will be nothing more than a sad footnote of failure.

Brother,

I will not argue that your view depends on where you sit and I know your community has been rode hard and put away wet, but the bitterness will not matter to anyone but you.

We all face disappointment, trust me, I recently faced a big Air Force disappointment of my own and there was a simple choice, mope around or shake it off and lean into it. The Air Force is not fair...period dot...sometimes shitty people succeed, but the same can be said in the civilian sector. The Air Force is facing challenges, our shit is tired and broke, but there are still good people fighting to make a difference and we still bring an advantage to the fight that trumps anyone else on the planet.

You have to control what is within your reach and if that takes you to a point where you want to get out, then I thank you for your service, you've done more than 99% of the American public and I am humbled that people like you step forward to serve. Let me offer some simple advice, do your best, accomplish the mission to the best of your ability, fight tooth and nail to take care of your people, and leave with your head held high. This chapter is almost complete for me and I want to look in the mirror when it is over with my family, my honor and dignity intact, and knowing I did my absolute best...I truly wish the same for you.

PM me if you want to talk again.

[MD]

Unfair. While hyperbolic toward AF CCs (maybe), no one was calling Beerman a wife beater.

^^This. It's awesome to me to hear my contemporaries say they had a great experience in the AF. It makes me hopeful that it can be the organization I thought it was a dozen years ago. But there are some stovepipes that have become toxic. See the missileer thread for an example. I would contend that the tanker career field tries to eat its own. There's a reason we're called tanker lawyers. If and when I get to leave, it will be done with no ill will toward the service. 16 yo me would never have believed the awesome things he'd be doing in a few years. But when the AF makes it clear that it doesn't have a future for you, then read the writing and bow out gracefully, I say.

I agree, I don't think anyone is calling BeerMan a wife beater; just referencing bad commanders who misuse things like service before self or who otherwise look down upon those who have completed their commitments and wish to part ways, as fitting that description. And to that, I would agree. At the same time, I don't decry or downplay BeerMan's experiences.....he's experienced what he's experienced, it's worked for him and he's been happy with it apparently, he's been in good units where BS has seemingly been kept to a minimum, and that's all good stuff. That should be a model for the rest of the AF, but unfortunately that has become the minority example anymore....an island in the sea of Big Blue. And that's kind of sad. AF has a lot of great things to offer, but as time goes on, the price to be paid for those offerings can become very taxing. Starting out at Willie was a great intro into just how fun the AF lifestyle could be, but maybe that spoiled me. Because as time went on, the changes that came eventually made me glad I only had the 8yr post-UPT commitment, rather than the 10 year.

Brother,

I will not argue that your view depends on where you sit and I know your community has been rode hard and put away wet, but the bitterness will not matter to anyone but you.

We all face disappointment, trust me, I recently faced a big Air Force disappointment of my own and there was a simple choice, mope around or shake it off and lean into it. The Air Force is not fair...period dot...sometimes shitty people succeed, but the same can be said in the civilian sector. The Air Force is facing challenges, our shit is tired and broke, but there are still good people fighting to make a difference and we still bring an advantage to the fight that trumps anyone else on the planet.

You have to control what is within your reach and if that takes you to a point where you want to get out, then I thank you for your service, you've done more than 99% of the American public and I am humbled that people like you step forward to serve. Let me offer some simple advice, do your best, accomplish the mission to the best of your ability, fight tooth and nail to take care of your people, and leave with your head held high. This chapter is almost complete for me and I want to look in the mirror when it is over with my family, my honor and dignity intact, and knowing I did my absolute best...I truly wish the same for you.

Well said, and I agree that's all you can really do: make your contribution, do your part, and hope you made some kind of difference in the small portion of the organization in which you personally impacted. While I can't necessarily say if we're at or headed still to the same hollow-force of the post-Vietnam 1970s, even then the organization turned around from that, and became what it became in the 1980s.

Like you said, you can only do what you can do, and know that you did it with honor, and pride.

Edited February 18, 2014 by MD

[pawnman]

Gents,

No one thinks less of you for getting out. Everyone needs to make a decision based upon their own personal circumstances, their family circumstances, and what they want to do in life. I honestly wish you the best and hope you find what you are looking for. There is nothing wrong with doing what you believe to be right for you and your family. However...

I don't understand where you are coming from with the attitude of "F this", "the Air Force is fucked", and we are going to be "a sad footnote of failure." Dude take that attitude and piss off. If you feel that it is time for you to leave, and that there are better things for you other places then please take advantage of that and go find those other things. But don't shit on the rest of us with your fucking terrible attitude. If you talked like that in my squadron I would punch you in the face and throw you out of my bar.

I agree with a lot of the points that you make about M words, PME, less flying, and queep, but I don't agree that we're fucked. That article from a few pages ago comes across as nothing more than whining. The writer makes some minor points and then comes across as an 8th grader complaining about why they didn't get to do what they want. Boo hoo I don't want to fly an F-35 its not an A-10. Say what again?

And these other comments about "service before self" being a cheap line that lemmings are fed by leadership and immediately do whatever they are asked is insulting as well. Can you explain that to me please? I don't get it. You guys must seriously have some terrible leadership, and some really shitty squadrons. Guys who say that to you deserve to be sacked. In 15 years in the Air Force I've never heard a commander say that. Doesn't mean some of them didn't think it, but I've clearly had a different experience than you have.

Do you think that Southwest, Delta, AA, and United think about you differently than AFPC? I'm not saying AFPC is right. They're not. But talk to the Air Tran guys who lost their preferred routes and their Captain's seats after the Southwest merger. They aren't so convinced that Southwest had their best interest at heart. There are definitely opportunities out there in the airlines. If you can find those opportunities and capitalize on them then I think that is awesome, and I applaud you. But the Air Force is not dead. So take your toxic bitter attitude and gracefully fade away without imparting it on the young guys who read this forum and still look forward to flying jets for the Air Force. For some of us, it's actually still pretty bad ass.

Cheers,

Beerman

I had a WG/CC pull out the "Service before self" line when discussing the COLA cuts to our retirement...that we should think about how we need to sacrifice something if we care about national security.

[Jaded]

I hear Luke is about to have a boots on the ramp policy.

[Finals]

I’m going to get squarely back in my lane in regards to the U-28/NSA programs.

As for over/under on my scotch intake…the entire rant was done stone cold sober (Yeah I know, hard to believe).

I don’t think the AF is irrevocably broken. Nor do I believe it is heading in the right direction or has been heading in the right direction for quite some time now. Too me, that is an institutional problem that has been allowed to foster. Aircraft needs of this service are extremely great but they seem to outweigh the possibility of fixing them. THAT is an ISSUE.

Yes, BRAC is out of the AF’s control somewhat but that doesn’t mean you can’t look into the future and attempt to play the best hand you have. While 20/20 hindsight is always perfect, I guarantee that if you talked to AF folks back in the early 90s and showed them what bases would be operating in 2014, some real fast footed shifting would have taken place to move heaven and earth. George AFB, Castle AFB, Myrtle AFB could still be “open for business” in my opinion, doing something, if the right cards had been played. They weren’t and that’s sad. Heck the people around Myrtle were screaming for it to stay open and it still got canned. Myrtle or Cannon anyone? It just makes one think… or at least me. The only thing we can take from it is to look into the future and set the AF on its best footing for the next go around.

Aircraft acquisition needs to change in my opinion and the AF needs to look at how other services. The Navy had an outstanding aircraft in the F-14 Tomcat but in the late 90s it was getting old. They retrofitted it and updated it and it continued to serve as a great fighter/bomber until late the next decade. It was replaced ENTIRELY buy a completely new airframe. The USAF can’t say the same about the F-15C and its attempts to purchase a large number of F-22s went down the drain. How then did the Navy completely replace their F-15C equivalent on a greater than 1:1 margin? That’s 500+ airframes in the fleet, doing God’s work compared a program that never really went anywhere and produced a smallish 179 frames.

Continuing to use the Navy, let’s talk about the EF-111 I brought up. The USAF canned that aircraft, losing the metal, the funding and the majority of pilot slots that go along with it. Since the AF canned the Raven, the Navy’s EA-6B Prowler fleet actually GREW! That’s right, the Navy pulled EA-6Bs out of the desert to make NEW squadrons to fill the need. Some AF guys get to contribute to the program but what a loss!!!!!! With the advent of the EA-18G “Growler”, the Navy will continue to control the assets, control the money and control the manpower that performs the mission. The AF is a back seat player and did it to itself. So please, take a moment to look back in time before AF moves forward with aircraft ideas. What assets can be kept, what assets can be based at XYZ base instead of ABC base and what assets can be shifted to the ANG?

Is it that far from reality to say:

A-10: Every last operational airframe goes to the ANG. AD funding issues go away, the ANG runs with a program they love and CAS continues to be trained for in a proper manner.

MC-12: Every last operational airframe to the ANG. AD funding issues go away, ANG gets a great program that will truly help the states and country.

U-2: Fight like HELL to keep an operational asset that can’t be duplicated and KILL the RQ-4.

KC-10: Off to the boneyard my friend and we will fight the good “tanker” fight down the road with possible additional KC-46s purchases due to your early retirement. (Sorry to the KC-135 boys that will have to take an additional hit/deployment).

3 assets come completely off AD’s books, they quit purchasing an asset that can’t produce and maintain a greater ability in the U2.

[Swanee]

What Infantry officer joins the USMC and after three years gets told to be in charge of the chow hall?

This happens more than you think. Less than 50% of Infantry types even given the option to stay in after their first tour, and for every 4 or 5 Lts in a rifle company only one will become a Company Commander. After their first tour they go do such grunty jobs like recruiting, they are in charge of platoons of Marines at OCS, or TBS or they are series commanders at boot camp. Have 3 combat tours, one as a line platoon commander, second as a weapons platoon commander and third as a Company XO? Sounds great 1st Lt, why don't you go into officer recruiting, or teach at an ROTC unit, or go work in an H&S company. If you get your ducks in a row and complete Expeditionary Warfighting School first as a correspondence student, then do it again in residence you might go back to command a MARSOC platoon or perhaps a line rifle or weapons company. Oh, you did that anyway? Sorry, we don't have a company for you, instead we have this great MAGTF staff job for you. I hope you enjoy living on a small deck carrier/LHD/LHA/LPD for 6-9 months at a time, just like if you were in the Navy. Then as soon as you become a senior Captain or Major you're back in a B billet, then off to work on more staffs. Oh, and as a Marine hope and pray you stay with the Marine Corps. If you get a joint tour and you aren't the #1 performer and don't have FITREPs that say you are a water walker you're going to be treated like you did something wrong. Why? Because Marines are supposed to be better than EVERYONE else at EVERYTHING. Period dot. Yut yut, ooh rah, devil dog, semper fi....

The infantry world chews guys up and spits them out worse than the aviation world does.

[Buddy Spike]

Aircraft acquisition needs to change in my opinion and the AF needs to look at how other services. The Navy had an outstanding aircraft in the F-14 Tomcat but in the late 90s it was getting old. They retrofitted it and updated it and it continued to serve as a great fighter/bomber until late the next decade. It was replaced ENTIRELY buy a completely new airframe. The USAF can’t say the same about the F-15C and its attempts to purchase a large number of F-22s went down the drain. How then did the Navy completely replace their F-15C equivalent on a greater than 1:1 margin? That’s 500+ airframes in the fleet, doing God’s work compared a program that never really went anywhere and produced a smallish 179 frames.

Continuing to use the Navy, let’s talk about the EF-111 I brought up. The USAF canned that aircraft, losing the metal, the funding and the majority of pilot slots that go along with it. Since the AF canned the Raven, the Navy’s EA-6B Prowler fleet actually GREW! That’s right, the Navy pulled EA-6Bs out of the desert to make NEW squadrons to fill the need. Some AF guys get to contribute to the program but what a loss!!!!!! With the advent of the EA-18G “Growler”, the Navy will continue to control the assets, control the money and control the manpower that performs the mission. The AF is a back seat player and did it to itself. So please, take a moment to look back in time before AF moves forward with aircraft ideas. What assets can be kept, what assets can be based at XYZ base instead of ABC base and what assets can be shifted to the ANG?

Not to interrupt a perfectly good rant, but thinking the grass is greener on the Navy side is just fucked up.

The Navy didn't just go out and buy full up Super Hornets and call it good. They spent more money "phasing it in" with APG-73 first, no conformal fuel tanks as originally advertised, and outwardly canted wingtip pylons (great thinking boys).

The Navy is notorious for fucking up acquisitions - often getting an upgrade for a jet but then only equipping half the squadron in a clusterfuck of combinations. For example - some squadrons would have half the jets with Link, a third with JHMCS, some with 9X, but none with all three. WTFO?

It's funny reading all of this crying, because I've been on both sides of the fence, and it's just a different flavor of the same bitching. The Air Force is even better in a lot of ways while being the same in others.

[Liquid]

Looks like SECDEF gets it. We may see some real change.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20140218/NEWS05/302180006/Hagel-digs-deep-into-military-ethics-problem

From the article:

“The military is locked into this ‘character’ and ‘integrity’ talk as the default way to talk about these problems,” said Martin Cook, who teaches military ethics at the Naval War College in Rhode Island.

The result is that blame falls on the moral failings of a few individuals, while questions about broader institutional problems — poor training, toxic command climates, flawed personnel policies and deeper cultural issues — never get raised, Cook said.

“If you consider that there may be some other environmental factors behind this, it greatly expands the aperture for who is responsible,” Cook said.

Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel stunned many at the Pentagon recently by suggesting the military has a “deep” ethical problem. His top spokesman, Rear Adm. John Kirby, used the word “systemic.”

“It is the responsibility of all of us,” Hagel said, to root out problems like cheating, fraud, drug and alcohol abuse, sexual assault and other forms of misconduct that have cropped up in recent months.

After a wave of recent misconduct reports, Hagel is signaling an intent to go beyond the traditional response to scandal — firing a mid-level commander, drawing up a new PowerPoint-based training regimen or rewriting an official policy laden with bureaucratic jargon.

[Azimuth]

Good luck changing the culture in the 13S careerfield without ending some careers.

[Breckey]

13N is the worse of the two

[pawnman]

Good luck changing the culture in the 13S careerfield without ending some careers.

We are still doing the force-shaping, right? I can't remember with all the retractions and re-releases of announcements.Some of these leaders might be ripe for a SERB. Or at that level, would it just be an SRB?

[BB Stacker]

Not to interrupt a perfectly good rant, but thinking the grass is greener on the Navy side is just ######ed up.

The Navy didn't just go out and buy full up Super Hornets and call it good. They spent more money "phasing it in" with APG-73 first, no conformal fuel tanks as originally advertised, and outwardly canted wingtip pylons (great thinking boys).

The Navy is notorious for ######ing up acquisitions - often getting an upgrade for a jet but then only equipping half the squadron in a cluster###### of combinations. For example - some squadrons would have half the jets with Link, a third with JHMCS, some with 9X, but none with all three. WTFO?

It's funny reading all of this crying, because I've been on both sides of the fence, and it's just a different flavor of the same bitching. The Air Force is even better in a lot of ways while being the same in others.

To add to that, the only reason they got the SH in the first place is that they completely and utterly botched the two major NAVAIR post-Cold War acquisitions projects. First the ATA/A-12 program imploded, spending $2B with nothing to show for it but one mockup, and then NATF turned out to be vaporware. So by 1995 they were staring down having no A-6 replacement, no F-14 replacement, and no money. Thus enter the SH, a program that was completely built on compromises and that prioritized being affordable over everything else. On the one hand, this made for a relatively drama free procurement (no Congressional hearings or 60 Minutes stories about massive cost overruns) but on the other it led to some pretty hilarious performance compromises (e.g., those outward canted pylons).

[RogAir]

I hear Luke is about to have a boots on the ramp policy.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like you're meshing "boots on the ground" (an Army term), with "feet on the ramp" (an Air Force punishment term).

Feet on the ramp was used in the mid 90's to ground guys who did not take the bonus, and still had ADSCs left (mostly FAIPs in their second assignment). Officially it was a "manning" tool, but everyone knew it punitive and meant to pressure guys into re-upping. Problem was, they grounded so many guys they couldn't man the missions, and finally cried uncle, and the program was terminated. But not before they sold the termination as Big Blue "being cool and treating everyone right".

[Homestar]

Looks like SECDEF gets it. We may see some real change.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20140218/NEWS05/302180006/Hagel-digs-deep-into-military-ethics-problem

From the article:

“The military is locked into this ‘character’ and ‘integrity’ talk as the default way to talk about these problems,” said Martin Cook, who teaches military ethics at the Naval War College in Rhode Island.

The result is that blame falls on the moral failings of a few individuals, while questions about broader institutional problems — poor training, toxic command climates, flawed personnel policies and deeper cultural issues — never get raised, Cook said.

“If you consider that there may be some other environmental factors behind this, it greatly expands the aperture for who is responsible,” Cook said.

Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel stunned many at the Pentagon recently by suggesting the military has a “deep” ethical problem. His top spokesman, Rear Adm. John Kirby, used the word “systemic.”

“It is the responsibility of all of us,” Hagel said, to root out problems like cheating, fraud, drug and alcohol abuse, sexual assault and other forms of misconduct that have cropped up in recent months.

After a wave of recent misconduct reports, Hagel is signaling an intent to go beyond the traditional response to scandal — firing a mid-level commander, drawing up a new PowerPoint-based training regimen or rewriting an official policy laden with bureaucratic jargon.

I'm not saying he's wrong, I just find being lectured-to about ethics by a career politician to be ironic.

I also find it ironic that the author believes that the military is losing the trust of the American people. In my experience, it is me who no longer trusts the American people (voters who pay nothing in terms of sacrifice to have the military they want) to chose politicians who will exercise some restraint and judgement when they send a nation to war. Years upon years of deployments has me a little cynical I suppose.

To call the problem systemic labels everyone as liars and cheaters. That is simply not the case.