Cannon AFB

[Techsan]

I lived in Clovis for 6 years as a kid, and can say it wasn't as bad as most say it is. If I was a single dude, I wouldn't want to be stationed there because there honestly isn't much to offer...especially compared to the Redneck Riviera (lived there too). I still have family that lives in Clovis, and it's a decent place to raise a family. You get used to the smell of the stockyards & constant blowing wind.

[Fozzy Bear]

Lots of guys are showing up there every week, right now. What is the real time numbers on the rentals? Are they still higher than Florida? To live in the northeast, in a non-poop smelling neighborhood, will I be paying $1800/month? I should also ask anyone to PM me if they have a place to rent - my roadtrip out west starts at the end of September.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Fozzy Bear

[contraildash]

Fozzy,

If you are looking for a decent 3B/2Ba house in the 'nicer' neighborhoods, you are looking at $1,500 and up just for the rent. That's right at the cap for an O3 w/ dependants. Good luck if you have pets, very few rentals allow pets and the ones that do charge up to a few hundred per pet.

AHRN is very fluid as demand is high for rentals, we also looked on real estate websites, craigs list, zillow, and trulia. Calling around to different realators was helpful as well. If you find something, you have to jump on it quickly.

[Splash95]

in a non-poop smelling neighborhood

Keep on dreaming even if it breaks your heart...

[AnimalMother]

Liquid, fair enough, Ill concede some of the points as you apparently have more intimate knowledge of the discrepancies than I do. I, for one, didn't mind Cannon a whole lot, but I was gone most of the time. I will however, expand on my point of emphasis. This is not about Cannon AFB per se. The ip so facto logic you use to conclude that individuals are separating merely because they don't want to go to Cannon misses the entire issue. You need to look at it from a holistic perspective. For many, an assignment to Cannon-doing exactly the same thing they just spent 4-6 years doing at HRT-is the proverbial straw. Does that make them bad people or officers? To some, apparently yes. But if officership to you means blindly following what your service asks you to do, then I would draw a parallel to the SS. We need folks to think for themselves, make personal decisions, and question why it is their service asks them to do certain things. Without that, we quickly slide down a dangerous slope. But back on topic, leadership needs to acknowledge the incontrovertible reality-most folks did not join the service with an intent to pursue an illustrious, start-studded career. They joined to fly cool planes, get money for college, or because they threw a dart at the board of indecisiveness-or perhaps because they were motivated by certain events. But, at the end of the day, please don't foster an environment in which you criticize or patronize folks for not accepting an assignment, when they probably have 3-5 times as many combat hours as yourself, 3-5 times as many deployments, and are half your age. These are the folks who have watched their families walk out the door while they answered the call and put up the numbers which you put on your OPR that got you promoted in the first place. Not everyone is fortunate to have a family as understanding and devoted as you have. I'm not trying to make this a stupid dick measuring contest, and I may be way off, but leadership is about people; in order to lead people you have to know them, understand them, and accept their limitations. Finally, you need to be honest with them. Was there some shadyness with the acquisition of Cannon? Ill bet my balls to the bandsaw on it. Do we necessarily need to bring that up? No, of course not, but why do we always have to church this shit up? Way can't we just be honest with our folks? And why would we decide to move a ton of folks to a place that so obviously lacked sufficient infrastructure to support them? Thats selling your people out, and people remember that shit. I know dudes who literally lived in barns when they got there. When there's a need, the crew dawgs will follow you to hell and back, don't take that for granted, and don't use it as an excuse to dismiss the fundamental problem here: people are leaving because most of the leadership we have (or at least that I've seen) doesn't deserve the level of sacrifice that folks are already making. Our leadership isn't cut out to serve the people they "lead." Ironic, considering how much time we spend focusing on leadership. Also ironic how these folks, who spend so much time preaching service before self, are the ones who spend the most time carefully shepherding their own careers.

[nsplayr]

For many, an assignment to Cannon-doing exactly the same thing they just spent 4-6 years doing at HRT-is the proverbial straw.

Give this man a medal. The location and people bitching about Cannon gets all the press, when in reality the dudes I know are punching because they're stuck in the black hole of the same highly-deployed MDS with absolutely zero hope of being released for anything unless they're a school-select, pinned-on major.

For all the talk of cross-flow and "other opportunities in the Air Force," it hasn't panned out for the vast majority of folks. Many guys who have dropped papers would love to continue serving but are fed up with the groundhog's day effect of the same deployments, the same 1-to-1, the same mission year after year after year and are looking for something, anything, different but who are "100% not releasable." It's not about "service before self" because there is no consideration for letting someone continue service in other ways (even in the same MAJCOM). There's a small-minded attitude that you either serve your particular tribe until there is no more juice to be squeezed or fuck you, get out.

I'd love the have the career some of my leadership had; multiple platforms, school, green door opportunities, overseas, etc. That sounds fucking great. The stark reality though is that my MDS in particular (as well as others in the command) has been so poorly mismanaged that at the current trajectory, a pilot getting this assignment out of UPT will not be released for anything else until, with good luck and timing, he's been doing this for literally 6-9 years, has probably 3-4K hours (mostly combat), more than 20 air medals, and is thoroughly burned out and jaded.

All that being said, other guys just plain wanna get out for any number of other reasons and ya know what, that's fine too, there should be absolutely no judgement for a dude who honorably served out his commitment.

Edited August 23, 2013 by nsplayr

[Danger41]

All that being said, other guys just plain wanna get out for any number of other reasons and ya know what, that's fine too, there should be absolutely no judgement for a dude who honorably served out his commitment.

Amen.

[joe1234]

I think Navy guys put it best when they say "choose your rate, choose your fate".

I'm curious though, do you guys simply not know what awaits you years down the line when you pick these sorts of assignments out of UPT/UNT? From the guys I know, they kinda understood the implication that AFSOC meant you were there (and deploying constantly) til death or separation do you part.

Or is it a case where you're at a different stage of your life and the choice you made back then no longer reflects the choice you want now, but you're stuck there because of circumstance?

[ClearedHot]

If I was faced with that PCS and I had kids of school age, I'd be putting the family in Lubbock and geobash that assignment until the next PCS/expiration of ADSC, whichever came first. No reason your family's well-being has to suffer just because the DOD is in the business of propping up the local economies of the lazy and unambitious.

You are a complete dolt!

You are typical of the bashers that have never stepped foot in the the town but jump on the bandwagon.

For the record, Clovis has a national blue ribbon school and some very fine teachers, including a lot of military wives, some who are national recognized reading recovery and reading coaching teachers. S

All that being said, other guys just plain wanna get out for any number of other reasons and ya know what, that's fine too, there should be absolutely no judgement for a dude who honorably served out his commitment.

100% agree, the less than 1% that raised their hands and said, "send me", I honor the service and sacrifice. What I don't honor is the folks who pushed the button on word of mouth, who have never set foot on Cannon AFB but are willing to burn their bridge when they still have three-four years of commitment.

[Fuzz]

I think Navy guys put it best when they say "choose your rate, choose your fate".

I'm curious though, do you guys simply not know what awaits you years down the line when you pick these sorts of assignments out of UPT/UNT? From the guys I know, they kinda understood the implication that AFSOC meant you were there (and deploying constantly) til death or separation do you part.

Or is it a case where you're at a different stage of your life and the choice you made back then no longer reflects the choice you want now, but you're stuck there because of circumstance?

At least for AFSOC nobody in UPT knows anything about the airframes, there was not a single prior AFSOC guy at UPT to answer questions. The best we ever got was "uh they are gone a lot and do spooky stuff". For instance the U-28, the prior Nav in my class knew more about it than anyone because he has friends in it. AFSOC is a black hole when it comes to info flowing back to the UPT studs.

When I went to SERE, I had a U-28 guy in my group and the instructor had never even heard of the airplane, and couldn't find any helpful info for the guy.

[Snooter]

I spent 9 months in Clovis on casual; I don't envy the single guys that live there. When I was there in '07 a MSgt I went to church with had his house broken into and subsequently burned down by a kid his daughter went to school with, apparently it was a helluva party. That was in addition to the string of church robberies, and also one of the bros who had his house broken into that was occuring at the same time. With that in mind you will never find Cannon on my dream sheet. Best of luck to the guys there or the ones that are going.

[Techsan]

I spent 9 months in Clovis on casual; I don't envy the single guys that live there.

Funny. I actually requested Cannon for casual because I had family there, but ended up getting 10 months @ Eglin. Go figure.

[Snooter]

I left early for "greener pastures" in Enid...

[Azimuth]

I left early for "greener pastures" in Enid...

Both are better than Altus. And by better I mean have a BX that didn't close.

[discus]

All BS aside Liquid, how does it happen and when do the seniors stand up and tell Gen Fiel you picked the wrong guy, he will destroy the place, just like he has destroyed everything else in his Cat 5 path.

My guess is that Liquid will not comment on a standing wing commander. That being said, I did find #5 in his bio interdasting.

1. July 1991 - August 1992, Undergraduate Pilot Training, Columbus AFB, MS

2. September 1992 - July 1993, C-130 and MC-130E Combat Talon Initial Mission Qualification, Little Rock AFB, Arkansas and Hurlburt Field, FL

3. July 1993 - January 1997, MC-130E Aircraft Commander and MC-130H Instructor Pilot, 1st Special Operations Squadron, Kadena AB, Japan

4. January 1997 - January 1998, MC-130H Instructor Pilot, 550th Special Operations Squadron, Kirtland AFB, NM

5. January - August 1998, Student F-15 Pilot, 2nd Fighter Squadron, Tyndall AFB, FL

6. August 1998 - September 2001, MC-130H Instructor Pilot, Stan/Eval Pilot and Assistant Director of Operations, 15th Special Operations Squadron and Wing Executive Officer, 16th Special Operations Wing, Hurlburt Field, FL

7. September 2001 - June 2003, Chief, SOF/CSAR Branch, Global Mobility and Special Operations Capability Requirements Division, Directorate of Operational Capability Requirements, Deputy Chief of Staff for Air and Space Operations, Headquarters United States Air Force, Pentagon, Washington, DC

Edited August 26, 2013 by discus

[Rmarsh]

I'm on my way to Cannon in a couple weeks and after reading this whole thread the overarching opinion I had until the last 2 pages was that there was a lot of bitching going on by people who had either spent their whole careers at Hurby or by people who had never been there. I've never been a C-17 pilot and I'm new to AFSOC so I can't say that I've had posh assignments to coastal cities or OCONUS bases, but I've been around long enough to have been stationed in places where people bitch just the same. Finally in the last couple pages some sense started to come out instead of just "Clovis sucks, it smells like shit and the houses are too expensive" (paraphrasing). If people want to get out after their commitment, fine, I get it, I thank them for their service, but it sounds to me like Clovis/Cannon makes a convenient scapegoat. And I just bought a house there for less than the appraised value, and frankly I'm pretty excited about the whole PCS.

[Snooter]

I'm on my way to Cannon in a couple weeks and after reading this whole thread the overarching opinion I had until the last 2 pages was that there was a lot of bitching going on by people who had either spent their whole careers at Hurby or by people who had never been there. I've never been a C-17 pilot and I'm new to AFSOC so I can't say that I've had posh assignments to coastal cities or OCONUS bases, but I've been around long enough to have been stationed in places where people bitch just the same. Finally in the last couple pages some sense started to come out instead of just "Clovis sucks, it smells like shit and the houses are too expensive" (paraphrasing). If people want to get out after their commitment, fine, I get it, I thank them for their service, but it sounds to me like Clovis/Cannon makes a convenient scapegoat. And I just bought a house there for less than the appraised value, and frankly I'm pretty excited about the whole PCS.

Well bro ya got the attitude I'll give ya that. To be honest there was some good to be found in Clovis, Kingswood Methodist was a good place with good peoples. The golf course on base is the nicest you'll find for a few hours drive; and in the wintertime Santa Fe ski resort is an afternoon's drive away. Hell, the 4th of July celebration was kind of cool, they actually broadcast the music that coincides with the fireworks over the local radio station, and although I never visited it there's a zoo. The guys out at United Aero (if it's still there) will hunt prarie dogs on the field to feed the animals (he's a crusty F-4 driver) but I can't remember names. At any rate congrats on the house, here's to hoping yours and mine increase in value in the coming years... Cheers bud.

[Rmarsh]

Well bro ya got the attitude I'll give ya that. To be honest there was some good to be found in Clovis, Kingswood Methodist was a good place with good peoples. The golf course on base is the nicest you'll find for a few hours drive; and in the wintertime Santa Fe ski resort is an afternoon's drive away. Hell, the 4th of July celebration was kind of cool, they actually broadcast the music that coincides with the fireworks over the local radio station, and although I never visited it there's a zoo. The guys out at United Aero (if it's still there) will hunt prarie dogs on the field to feed the animals (he's a crusty F-4 driver) but I can't remember names. At any rate congrats on the house, here's to hoping yours and mine increase in value in the coming years... Cheers bud.

Thanks, I really do appreciate it. I look at Clovis the same way I looked at Del Rio- the town isn't the best by any stretch, but if you're there with good bros and you are blessed with a woman who can at least deal with a less than ideal situation for the time being, everything is going to work out fine. I'm sure Disco_Nav963 (BLUE KNIGHTS!) would chime in and say that getting stationed in a "crappy" place isn't the end of the world if its an improvement in the career aspect, which for the two of us, for example, is.

[arg]

Wait, what about all the AC-130 pansies that got out because of orders to Cannon? Or the squadron that deliberately fudged its performance data so it wouldn't have to go to Cannon at all?

Everyone knows that particular airplanes performance goes down as the suckage level of the place they're asked to go to goes up. Example, Peterson in the summertime, no problem. Operate out of Cannon, no can do.

[matmacwc]

My guess is that Liquid will not comment on a standing wing commander. That being said, I did find #5 in his bio interdasting.

1. July 1991 - August 1992, Undergraduate Pilot Training, Columbus AFB, MS

2. September 1992 - July 1993, C-130 and MC-130E Combat Talon Initial Mission Qualification, Little Rock AFB, Arkansas and Hurlburt Field, FL

3. July 1993 - January 1997, MC-130E Aircraft Commander and MC-130H Instructor Pilot, 1st Special Operations Squadron, Kadena AB, Japan

4. January 1997 - January 1998, MC-130H Instructor Pilot, 550th Special Operations Squadron, Kirtland AFB, NM

5. January - August 1998, Student F-15 Pilot, 2nd Fighter Squadron, Tyndall AFB, FL

6. August 1998 - September 2001, MC-130H Instructor Pilot, Stan/Eval Pilot and Assistant Director of Operations, 15th Special Operations Squadron and Wing Executive Officer, 16th Special Operations Wing, Hurlburt Field, FL

7. September 2001 - June 2003, Chief, SOF/CSAR Branch, Global Mobility and Special Operations Capability Requirements Division, Directorate of Operational Capability Requirements, Deputy Chief of Staff for Air and Space Operations, Headquarters United States Air Force, Pentagon, Washington, DC

#5 cannot be correct unless he washed out.

[discus]

#5 cannot be correct unless he washed out.

Bingo.

[Azimuth]

Why would he keep that in his bio?

To account for what he was doing during those months. Happened to the Vice at Lakenheath.

http://www.lakenheath.af.mil/library/biographies/bio.asp?id=16067

[discus]

http://www.offutt.af.mil/library/biographies/bio.asp?id=16882

Some people just don't put it on their bio at all. (One year between usafa graduation and starting...ABM training). I especially appreciate the "aircraft flown" section here.

/thread derail

Cannon sucks

[ThreeHoler]

http://www.offutt.af.mil/library/biographies/bio.asp?id=16882

Some people just don't put it on their bio at all. (One year between usafa graduation and starting...ABM training). I especially appreciate the "aircraft flown" section here.

/thread derail

Simple answer: 380 EOG/CC.

[sputnik]

How do you log time in a KC-10 or U2 as a weapons guy? I get that he got a ride but....