2009 Fort Hood Shooting

[Guest flyguysteve]

The Army gave this guy an education, a commission and a career in medicine.... this is how he repays... I have nothing but distain for this man and his lack of respect for the uniform he wore! "His greatest fear was going to Iraq!" Why the hell did he join the military then? To get through med school on taxpayer dollars? I hope the UCMJ can even give a measure of the justice he deserves...

Thoughts and prayers are with the families of the fallen and wounded at Ft Hood... God Bless

[Wolf424]

Thoughts and Prayers go out to the victims and their families.

He was dealing with harassment from some of his colleagues to the extent where he hired a military attorney to have the issue resolved

Next stop, knee-jerk reactions involving annual Muslim sensitivity training. I expect the CBT to be out by next week.

[Dubs]

Another shooting in Orlando today. This is getting to be ridiculous...

ORLANDO, Fla. -- At least eight people were injured in a mass shooting inside a downtown Orlando high-rise just before noon Friday, according to the Orlando Fire Department.

Gateway Center

Gateway Center

Firefighters were called to Gateway Center at 1000 Legion Place around 11:30 a.m. The building is near Lake Ivanhoe.

All patients have been taken to Orlando Regional Medical Center. At least four of the eight patients are serious trauma cases. Due to the incident, the emergency room has been closed to patients. The ER is on status X.

Dispatchers with the Orlando Fire Department said a shooting with multiple victims was reported on the eighth floor.

WESH 2 reporter Gail Paschall-Brown, who is at the scene on the ground, said that 15 employees came out of the building very distraught. Paschall-Brown spoke with one who said that a former employee came into the office who hadn't worked at the company in over a year.

At least six ambulances and dozens of police cars and fire engines have arrived at the scene.

Orlando Fire Department spokeswoman Vicky Robles said a shooter has not been taken into custody.

"We don't know who they are," Robles said.

WESH 2 News reporter Greg Fox said gurneys are being wheeled toward the building. However, some rescue personnel may be waiting for clearance from authorities that the scene has been secured.

Cameras in downtown Orlando showed authorities closing some streets around the center.

Interstate 4 eastbound has been shut down while police converge on the area. Nearby Edgewater High School has also been locked down.

http://www.wesh.com/news/21541263/detail.html

Edited November 6, 2009 by Dubs

[Radio]

I wonder if there will be DoD-wide measures about threatening statements and anti-war sentiments.

It has been reported that the shooter raised all sorts of red flags in past months. Not sure how accurate some of these claims are: like "he equated a soldier jumping on a grenade to save his buddies to a suicide bomber."

His chain of command are all probably in for it if they really ignored signs like this.

[Guest CA]

I wonder if there will be DoD-wide measures about threatening statements and anti-war sentiments.

It has been reported that the shooter raised all sorts of red flags in past months. Not sure how accurate some of these claims are: like "he equated a soldier jumping on a grenade to save his buddies to a suicide bomber."

His chain of command are all probably in for it if they really ignored signs like this.

Absolutely agree. I work for the Director of Health Promotion and Wellness in the Behavioral Health program of the Army. The reports of his "red flags" would have gotten any of us here to say that this guy is not someone we want deploying. The thing to be careful about is saying that he is "crazy" "insane" or "suffering from a mental condition" because he was not. The guy is a psychiatrist and knew exactly what was going on. He was a bad psychiatrist in that he couldn't find a way out of deploying, but still, he knew what he was going to do that day. It was obviously premeditated.

What a shame that so many innocent Soldiers had to be killed for him to get his point across that he didn't want to deploy. I'm glad that he's still alive so he can suffer punishment for this.

Edited November 7, 2009 by M2

[Karl Hungus]

I wonder if there will be DoD-wide measures about threatening statements and anti-war sentiments.

It has been reported that the shooter raised all sorts of red flags in past months. Not sure how accurate some of these claims are: like "he equated a soldier jumping on a grenade to save his buddies to a suicide bomber."

His chain of command are all probably in for it if they really ignored signs like this.

How is it leadership's fault? Is leadership supposed to monitor every single person's statements and thoughts? Now I understand what you're saying, that if leadership knew about this stuff and ignored it, then yeah they should take some serious heat for it. But if leadership is canned simply because they are in charge and someone needs to take the fall... that's why we have shit like reflective belts and CBTs for everything and all the other stupid policies out there. Leadership will try to cover their asses, and we get the "one person shits themselves so everyone wears diapers" phenomena. At some point people need to realize that this dude was a mass-murdering religoid ######tard, and those in command can't prevent everything.

[HoHum]

There seems to be some confusion about Maj Hasan's descent. The major news networks were reporting that he was Jordanian, but stories this morning suggest that he was Palestinian.

Jordanian?

Palestinian?

Read that a cleric at his mosque in the DC area reported that listed himself as US born with Palestinian nationality on a mosque "dating service" form

Also, he purportedly entered service prior to 9/11. I read he was enlisted for eight years.

[afnav]

My wife was on the computer and the phone most of the night with her friend in Texas. Her brother was in the processing line for shots on Thursday. She went to be with her mother after hours of calling people at the base, but not coming from a military family, it was difficult for her to understand why no one could tell her anything. I told my wife to tell her that they are under orders not to say anything until the individuals on the emergency data card are notified - it's the regulation.

Unfortunately, the last message my wife received from her friend was, "two army officers are at the door, I'll call you later".

I saw her on ABC news tonight talking about him.

There was a great story about casualty notification officers a few years ago: Final Salute

At one time I was on a list to be a casualty notification officer, but never got the call for it. I'm not sure how I would have handled it.

They will be trying to figure out what to do about this for a long time.

[afnav]

My wife was on the computer and the phone most of the night with her friend in Texas. Her brother was in the processing line for shots on Thursday. She went to be with her mother after hours of calling people at the base, but not coming from a military family, it was difficult for her to understand why no one could tell her anything. I told my wife to tell her that they are under orders not to say anything until the individuals on the emergency data card are notified - it's the regulation.

Unfortunately, the last message my wife received from her friend was, "two army officers are at the door, I'll call you later".

I saw her on ABC news tonight talking about him.

There was a great story about casualty notification officers a few years ago: Final Salute

At one time I was on a list to be a casualty notification officer, but never got the call for it. I'm not sure how I would have handled it.

They will be trying to figure out what to do about this for a long time.

Not trying to spam, but I noticed the photo links are no longer working. Here they are from another paper. If these aren't heart-wrenching to you, there was nothing there to begin with.

Final Salute Photographs

[M2]

OK, the bullshit debate on here ends now, if you want that discussion then take it over to the bar and pontificate all you want.

If you had a post on here and it is now gone, it was either off-topic or responding to an off-topic comment, and I deleted it. Stick to the incident at Hood or argue somewhere else, but no more religious debate posts in this thread.

And I hope everyone observed a moment of silence this afternoon at 2:34 EST in respect to those who lost their lives at Hood yesterday!

Edited November 7, 2009 by M2

[HU&W]

Thoughts and prayers for the victims of this crime, their friends, and their families.

[Guest Safe&Clear]

<Comments deleted>

And another thing: I've had SO many civilian friends ask me "How could this happen on a military base where everybody's armed?" They're shocked when I tell them we are only allowed to be armed in very, very rare circumstances, ie-- actually "in a combat zone"-- for "safety" reasons. But of course your high-school grad who gets hired on as a local Constable can be armed 24/7...

I, on the other hand, am "supposed" to not ever have my pistol in my truck when I drive on base.

Edited November 7, 2009 by M2

[SuperWSO]

Ralph Peters rarely has anything good to say about the AF, but this is the first time I've ever seen him take a shot at the Army. Interesting perspective on the end result of political correctness in the military.

Fort Hood's 9/11

By RALPH PETERS

Posted: 1:36 PM, November 6, 2009

On Thursday afternoon, a radicalized Muslim US Army officer shouting "Allahu Akbar!" committed the worst act of terror on American soil since 9/11. And no one wants to call it an act of terror or associate it with Islam.

What cowards we are. Political correctness killed those patriotic Americans at Ft. Hood as surely as the Islamist gunman did. And the media treat it like a case of non-denominational shoplifting.

This was a terrorist act. When an extremist plans and executes a murderous plot against our unarmed soldiers to protest our efforts to counter Islamist fanatics, it's an act of terror. Period.

When the terrorist posts anti-American hate-speech on the Web; apparently praises suicide bombers and uses his own name; loudly criticizes US policies; argues (as a psychiatrist, no less) with his military patients over the worth of their sacrifices; refuses, in the name of Islam, to be photographed with female colleagues; lists his nationality as "Palestinian" in a Muslim spouse-matching program, and parades around central Texas in a fundamentalist playsuit - well, it only seems fair to call this terrorist an "Islamist terrorist."

But the president won't. Despite his promise to get to all the facts. Because there's no such thing as "Islamist terrorism" in ObamaWorld.

And the Army won't. Because its senior leaders are so sick with political correctness that pandering to America-haters is safer than calling terrorism "terrorism."

And the media won't. Because they have more interest in the shooter than in our troops - despite their crocodile tears.

Maj. Nadal Malik Hasan planned this terrorist attack and executed it in cold blood. The resulting massacre was the first tragedy. The second was that he wasn't killed on the spot.

Hasan survived. Now the rest of us will have to foot his massive medical bills. Activist lawyers will get involved, claiming "harassment" drove him temporarily insane. There'll be no end of trial delays. At best, taxpayer dollars will fund his prison lifestyle for decades to come, since our politically correct Army leadership wouldn't dare pursue or carry out the death penalty.

Maj. Hasan will be a hero to Islamist terrorists abroad and their sympathizers here. While US Muslim organizations decry his acts publicly, Hasan will be praised privately. And he'll have the last laugh.

But Hasan isn't the sole guilty party. The US Army's unforgivable political correctness is also to blame for the casualties at Ft. Hood.

Given the myriad warning signs, it's appalling that no action was taken against a man apparently known to praise suicide bombers and openly damn US policy. But no officer in his chain of command, either at Walter Reed Army Medical Center or at Ft. Hood, had the guts to take meaningful action against a dysfunctional soldier and an incompetent doctor.

Had Hasan been a Lutheran or a Methodist, he would've been gone with the simoon. But officers fear charges of discrimination when faced with misconduct among protected minorities.

Now 12 soldiers and a security guard lie dead. 31 soldiers were wounded, 28 of them seriously. If heads don't roll in this maggot's chain of command, the Army will have shamed itself beyond moral redemption.

There's another important issue, too. How could the Army allow an obviously incompetent and dysfunctional psychiatrist to treat our troubled soldiers returning from war? An Islamist whacko is counseled for arguing with veterans who've been assigned to his care? And he's not removed from duty? What planet does the Army live on?

For the first time since I joined the Army in 1976, I'm ashamed of its dereliction of duty. The chain of command protected a budding terrorist who was waving one red flag after another. Because it was safer for careers than doing something about him.

Get ready for the apologias. We've already heard from the terrorist's family that "he's a good American." In their world, maybe he is.

But when do we, the American public, knock off the PC nonsense?

A disgruntled Muslim soldier murdered his officers way back in 2003, in Kuwait, on the eve of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Recently? An American mullah shoots it out with the feds in Detroit. A Muslim fanatic attacks an Arkansas recruiting station. A Muslim media owner, after playing the peace card, beheads his wife. A Muslim father runs over his daughter because she's becoming too Westernized.

Muslim terrorist wannabes are busted again and again. And we're assured that "Islam's a religion of peace."

I guarantee you that the Obama administration's non-response to the Ft. Hood attack will mock the memory of our dead.

[discus]

LINK

Well, I'll be damned...

Hasan Tied to Mosque of 9/11 HijackersLieberman Wants Senate Probe of Alleged Gunman

By ALLEN G. BREED, AP

posted: 40 MINUTES AGOcomments: 655filed under: Crime News, National News

FORT HOOD, Texas (Nov. 9) – A key U.S. senator said Sunday he would begin an investigation into whether the Army missed signs that the man accused of opening fire at Fort Hood had embraced an increasingly extremist view of Islamic ideology.

Sen. Joe Lieberman's call for the investigation came as word surfaced that Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan apparently attended the same Virginia mosque as two Sept. 11 hijackers in 2001, at a time when a radical imam preached there. Whether Hasan, an Army psychiatrist, associated with the hijackers is something the FBI will probably look into, according to a law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.

Classmates participating in a 2007-2008 master's program at a military college complained repeatedly to superiors about what they considered Hasan's anti-American views. Dr. Val Finnell said Hasan gave a presentation at the Uniformed Services University that justified suicide bombing and told classmates that Islamic law trumped the U.S. Constitution.

Another classmate said he complained to five officers and two civilian faculty members at the university. He wrote in a command climate survey sent to Pentagon officials that fear in the military of being seen as politically incorrect prevented an "intellectually honest discussion of Islamic ideology" in the ranks. The classmate also requested anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.

Lieberman, chairman of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, wants Congress to determine whether the shootings constitute a terrorist attack.

"If Hasan was showing signs, saying to people that he had become an Islamist extremist, the U.S. Army has to have zero tolerance," Lieberman, an independent from Connecticut, said on "Fox News Sunday." ''He should have been gone."

Authorities continue to refer to Hasan, 39, as the only suspect in the shootings that killed 13 and wounded 29, but they won't say when charges would be filed and have said they have not determined a motive. Hasan, who was shot by civilian police to end the rampage, was in critical but stable condition at an Army hospital in San Antonio.

He was breathing on his own after being taken off a ventilator on Saturday, but officials won't say whether Hasan can communicate. Sixteen victims remained hospitalized with gunshot wounds, and seven were in intensive care.

Hasan's family described a man incapable of the attack, calling him a devoted doctor and devout Muslim who showed no signs that he might lash out.

"I've known my brother Nidal to be a peaceful, loving and compassionate person who has shown great interest in the medical field and in helping others," his brother, Eyad Hasan, of Sterling, Va., said in a statement Saturday. "He has never committed an act of violence and was always known to be a good, law-abiding citizen."

Edited November 9, 2009 by discus

[M2]

OK, this discussion needs to happen here and not in the thread on the incident. I've moved a few posts over to get the ball rolling, but keep the terrorism-related arguments here and not in the other thread!

[M2]

OK, gents; a separate thread has been set up to discuss whether the Ft Hood incident was a terrorist attack or just the actions of an mentally disturbed individual. Please post all discussions in that thread and keep this one focused on the event itself. Here's the link:

Was Ft Hood a Terrorist Attack?

[discus]

Fine. I'll go. I'm sick of people not calling a F'ing spade a shovel.

From U.S. Law:

(d) Definitions

As used in this section—

(1) the term “international terrorism” means terrorism involving citizens or the territory of more than 1 country;

(2) the term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents;

(3) the term “terrorist group” means any group, or which has significant subgroups which practice, international terrorism;

(4) the terms “territory” and “territory of the country” mean the land, waters, and airspace of the country; and

(5) the terms “terrorist sanctuary” and “sanctuary” mean an area in the territory of the country—

(A) that is used by a terrorist or terrorist organization—

(i) to carry out terrorist activities, including training, fundraising, financing, and recruitment; or

(ii) as a transit point; and

(B) the government of which expressly consents to, or with knowledge, allows, tolerates, or disregards such use of its territory and is not subject to a determination under—

(i) section 2405(j)(1)(A) of the Appendix to title 50;

(ii) section 2371 (a) of this title; or

(iii) section 2780 (d) of this title

[HeloDude]

There seems to be some confusion about Maj Hasan's descent. The major news networks were reporting that he was Jordanian, but stories this morning suggest that he was Palestinian.

Jordanian?

Palestinian?

About 1/3 of those people living in Jordan are from Palestinian descent so that is where the confusion may lie. On a side note, if you ever have a chance to visit and tour Jordan, do it--by far one of the coolest placest I've ever been.

Today, almost 2 million of Jordan's 6 million people are registered Palestinian refugees...

http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/ADGO-7X4L49?OpenDocument

[StoleIt]

Terrorism is such a broad term though...

So yes it is...but do I associate these horrific events with things like 9/11 and the USS Cole? No.

I still believe these events weren't Islamic extremeist terrorist style motivated, but rather just cowardice by Hasan himself. He didn't want to go and was too big a baby to just wash his own mouth out with a revolver and instead tried a "suicide by cop" type situation.

Again, this is only my opinion based on the information I have read so far. If links are established that this douche-nugget had encouragement and ties to an organized terror network then I will reasses.

Edited November 9, 2009 by stoleit2x

[AEWingsMN]

Here's the part i don't think has been discussed, was he even likely to be on the front line? I don't think so because his job was medic related, so it wasn't like he was going to be shooting at fellow Muslims. And trust me, he knew his job. I highly doubt he believed he would be killing muslims, in fact, I highly doubt he'd have felt more guilty about doing his job there rather than here. Unless he was just to cowardice to deal with the fact that he would have more of his patients coming directly from the war (as it was reported he had heard so many horror stories and was scared of the war for that reason) and that all he would be doing is dealing with horror stories. I really think he just saw this as a prime opportunity to take his role as a "muslim" in his mind (not that all muslims believe this, but I believe he did, or he wouldn't have done it) and take out combatants that would soon be in the fight before they even got to the fight.

Therefor I would put it as Terrorism as described by Stoliet. I really think also, his posts online about being compared to a suicide bomber/guy who jumps on a greanade, are more evidence that he was attacking, not just mentalling breaking down. And thus I also believe he was doing it as an extremist muslim... maybe not from the thought that "all non-muslims must die", but at least from the "i'm going to take them out before they take out my fellow muslim's" attitude.

I would doubt he was tied to any terrorist agencies (other than going to the same mosque as the hi-jackers from 9/11 as reported, but i guess like every muslim in D.C. goes to that mosque occasionally). But I still see it as a religious attack, even if it was "pre-emptive defense" of fellow muslims as I describe.

Edited November 9, 2009 by AEWingsMN

[Guest PerArduaAdAstra]

And thus I also believe he was doing it as an extremist muslim... maybe not from the thought that "all non-muslims must die", but at least from the "i'm going to take them out before they take out my fellow muslim's" attitude.

+1

It was also the act of an extreme coward. Instead of eating his own weapon to get out of going overseas, he chose to make his "statement" in a room full of unarmed soldiers and civilians as opposed to doing the same thing in-theater where everybody would be armed and ready to put him down before he had time to fire a second shot.

At least this occurred in Texas which has a good healthy rate of putting killers to death. If it had happened in the Peoples Republic of Maryland (where he did his medical training at the USUHS) he probably would have only got community service for his crime.

[Guest Bad Intel]

Can someone clear up what exactly an 'extremist muslim' is and how it differs from a muslim?

Just a bit curious on this, as from what I have read/studied on Islam it is religion of violence.

[Guest Rubber_Side_Down]

Won't this case be tried in federal court? I read something online about it being a federal crime to murder a service member, if the accused knew that the victim was in the military prior to the killing.

It's Texas state that has a high rate of executions, right? Any ideas about whether the federal court system will push for the death penalty?

[Herk Driver]

Won't this case be tried in federal court? I read something online about it being a federal crime to murder a service member, if the accused knew that the victim was in the military prior to the killing.

It's Texas state that has a high rate of executions, right? Any ideas about whether the federal court system will push for the death penalty?

Remember that the state and the feds will sit down together and make a decision about who gets to try this clown. Many times, the feds will hand the guy over to the state especially if the state can get a stiffer penalty. I think you'll see that TX will take the guy to trial.

[Guest Scooby]

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fort-hood-shooter-contact-al-qaeda-terrorists-officials/story?id=9030873

Hasan apparently tried contacting people related to Al Qaeda and the US intelligence community knew this.

Now I'm getting pissed...

edit: spelling of the dickhead's name

Edited November 9, 2009 by Scooby