Washout stories

[Toro]

I think in the end, Bill won out afterall.

Uhhh...he washed out of his formal training course, never got a chance to be a pilot, and then his father died. Yup, sounds like a happy ending to me.

[Guest bunk22]

Uhhh...he washed out of his formal training course, never got a chance to be a pilot, and then his father died. Yup, sounds like a happy ending to me.

He's a millionare without having to do all the hard work. Hated his dad as I recall as well. So probably the only thing he lost out on was the military pilot thing. Like I used to tell him, it obviously just wasn't meant to be. Easier for me to say being I have my wings but success is often doing what you have to do than what you want to do. I heard Bill retired from the Marines (or about to) as well. Not bad, retirement pay and wealthy. Like I said, in the end, he won out.

Edited December 29, 2007 by bunk22

[Ill Destructor]

I had always heard from my parents that the Air Force (and I assume the other branches) were likely to give you the boot if you came into some large sum of money. Any truth to that? If not, man... I can't wait to win Megabucks and just keep flying like it was nothing!

[HerkDerka]

I had always heard from my parents that the Air Force was likely to give you the boot if you came into some large sum of money.

Unless your parents were both four-star finance officers, you might want a second opinion.

HD

[Guest Matt Damon]

I'm counting at least two stories that need to be told. The world definitely needs more psycho military chick stories...

Oh wait I got one...while I was a CE officer this chick LT shows up in our squadron one day to start working and she has wings on her BDUs. Long story short, she goes to the Academy and threatens to kill herself because one of her male classmates rejected her. She gets kicked out but goes on to do ROTC at some college in Missouri and pulls off a pilot slot. Graduates from Corpus and falls in love with one of her classmates, who eventually dumps her because she's psycho. She threatens to kill herself again and loses her rating. She comes to CE ('cause her degree was in engineering I guess) and spends about a year there before calling one of her fellow female LTs one night claiming to have taken an entire bottle of tylenol. Turns out she took no tylenol but I guess Big Blue had enough and kicked her out. Who knows where she is now, but I'm sure she's creating drama wherever she is.

Remember that no matter how hot you think a chick is, or how great, or how smart; there is some guy somewhere that is sick and tired of her shit.

For this Katrina Mumaw, I think its awesome she accomplished what she did. What I don't understand is how is it everyone else has to go through 4 yrs of college, work there a$$ off to compete to get selected for a spot.. Then fight to keep it and get their fighter slot, and this girl just walks into at 8yrs old..??

I hate when people are born on third base, wake up and think they hit a triple. But in her defense it did seem like she had a misguided out of control PA machine on her hands.

[Bergman]

Everyone is the "world's greatest pilot" when they're paying a $10,000/hour (or however much it costs) to rent a Mig-29, or hell even paying a CFI $20/hour to teach them to fly.

Do you really think someone is going to take this girl flying, then land and say "Nah...she actually sucked donkey balls flying today, but I'll still pocket her daddy's cash anyway!"? They're going to say whatever they need to say to keep the business rolling in. That is the fundamental difference between civilians who pay their instructors and military instructors who could care less how much money your dad has, or whether you were a nav before, or whether you were cadet wing commander.

[Sim]

Unless your parents were both four-star finance officers, you might want a second opinion.

HD

I saw in my squadron dude get released from contract due to "better life outside".....of course real reason was because he was a great farkup and no one wanted him. It's a sort of a 'promotion' :D

[FreudianSlip]

I'll bite…

So I'm sitting there in SOS (God help me, what a horrible experience!) on the first day and I'm pretty early in the alphabetic order for the standard meet and greet. So I throw out the standard, "grew up in CA, 99 zoomie, pilot training, Herk Pilot, I spent 3 years in Elmendorf and now at Pope." This formula goes around my new classmates until we get close to the end.

Now this douchebag opens his mouth with, "I'm from (someplace I don't recall), I'm a 00 grad from USAFA (oh, great one of those dipshits….wait…that's where I went)." Now this is where it gets good because he continues with, "I went to Vance for pilot training, but realized I wanted to lead people so I left. I'm now a comm officer in charge of (so many people at some place I can't recall)."

So, one strike for being an effing zoomie (I have the right to bash my own), two strikes for admitting that you washed out of UPT and three strikes by lying about the fact that you washed out by trying to say that you "wanted to lead people." I already hate the dude and it isn't even 9 AM on the first day of class!

Instead of just omitting the fact that he went to UPT and just saying that he is a Comm officer, he tries to cover up his failure with a lie. So, we go through the entire hell called SOS and not only do the two other pilots in my class hate his guts; I'm pretty sure most everybody else did too. Finally near the end he tells me, as I'm close to comatose in the Big Blue Snooze Room that he bounced a tweet in so hard, he collapsed the gear and slide off the runway and that he was too scared to get back in the seat. (If I smacked one in that hard, that early in the program I guess I might think twice about it too, but I wouldn't make up a story to tell other people that the reason I left was to "lead people.")

Moral of the story: lots of people wash out. Whether its for motion sickness, can't land the bitch, formation etc etc but if you do wash out, please for all that is good and holy, walk away knowing you gave it your all and let it go. Find something that fits for you and do your best at it, but don't ever ever lie because most people will know you are full of BS!

[tac airlifter]

the one washout story from my training days worth telling was our class leader at corpus. he goes out drinking with some of the guys, gets totally shit faced so they decide to take him home. so they take him back to the apartments (we all lived in the same building) and leave him on the floor of one guys apartment with his keys on the table in front of him; the logic being when he wakes up, he'll have his keys right in front of him to go sleep the rest off in his own apartment. sounds fine right?

well they get back when the night is over and this guy is gone and his car is gone from out front. oh shit, where did he go? multiple calls to his cell phone were not returned. maybe the guys should have done something else, but they were also drunk so they figured "we'll just let him sort it out and see him in class tomorrow (it was sunday)."

so the story picks up the next morning while we are in academics (remember that gay 5 day class they used to have on PFPS?) sitting around waiting to start. the class leader walks in and informs us that he is washing out of training and also being forced to leave the AF. he said the last thing he remembered about the night was being dragged in the door of our friends apartment, and then he blacks out while they are covering him with a blanket. an unknown amount of time passes and he wakes up at the controls of his car with the guard at the front gate of corpus NAS shining a light in his eyes.

so this guy drove around for who knows how long while totally unconscious and for whatever reason his brain decided to go on base. keep in mind they were out on the island, so thats a significant drive while blacked out drunk.

i felt bad for the guy. i don't know how they forced him out, whether he was dishonoably discharged or if they did some drug deal thing to force him out. either way his dreams went down the crapper and that is sad. but if ever someone brought it on themselves, that was it.

[pawnman]

the one washout story from my training days worth telling was our class leader at corpus. he goes out drinking with some of the guys, gets totally shit faced so they decide to take him home. so they take him back to the apartments (we all lived in the same building) and leave him on the floor of one guys apartment with his keys on the table in front of him; the logic being when he wakes up, he'll have his keys right in front of him to go sleep the rest off in his own apartment. sounds fine right?

well they get back when the night is over and this guy is gone and his car is gone from out front. oh shit, where did he go? multiple calls to his cell phone were not returned. maybe the guys should have done something else, but they were also drunk so they figured "we'll just let him sort it out and see him in class tomorrow (it was sunday)."

so the story picks up the next morning while we are in academics (remember that gay 5 day class they used to have on PFPS?) sitting around waiting to start. the class leader walks in and informs us that he is washing out of training and also being forced to leave the AF. he said the last thing he remembered about the night was being dragged in the door of our friends apartment, and then he blacks out while they are covering him with a blanket. an unknown amount of time passes and he wakes up at the controls of his car with the guard at the front gate of corpus NAS shining a light in his eyes.

so this guy drove around for who knows how long while totally unconscious and for whatever reason his brain decided to go on base. keep in mind they were out on the island, so thats a significant drive while blacked out drunk.

i felt bad for the guy. i don't know how they forced him out, whether he was dishonoably discharged or if they did some drug deal thing to force him out. either way his dreams went down the crapper and that is sad. but if ever someone brought it on themselves, that was it.

We had something similiar out of PCola. Guy had already selected F-15E's, was only two or three flights from finishing. He went on a cross-country to NYC. Got plastered drunk while he was there, and (I wasn't there, so this is second-hand), did SOMETHING to get arrested. Not only did he get arrested, NY's finest refused to turn him over to the military. So he stayed in jail while the rest of the crews leave for home on Sudnay. On Monday he gets bailed out, and I believe the squadron sent another jet up after him. Long story short, this dude lost his chance at wings, and I think he may have been thrown out of the Air Force.

Sadder still, he had an established drinking problem. He'd been in minor trouble on two other cross countries. So, while he got what he deserved, his buddies definitely weren't watching out for him the way they should have.

[brabus]

Brabus, you seem a little hostile with your post.

You're right, it was. It was based on the premise that she was one of "those" who thought she was the shit and better than everyone else b/c she had all this "experience." People like that piss me off and I found it gratifying that she washed out. HOWEVER, if it's true that she really was humble about it and all this propaganda stuff was daddy, then I was wrong to jump on her (STS!!!!) like that. If she truly tried her best and didn't make it, then I commend her for trying and have nothing against her.

This is the first I've heard of her, so even though I'm at VN, I've heard nothing. Though I still want to know about the whole "beat every fighter pilot in air-air" claim. Then again, maybe that's just Daddy blowing smoke up her's and everyone's ass.

[ucf_motorcycle]

I was in the same flight as her in ASBC. She was pretty humble about all her experience and was embarrased about thouse websites. She was pretty sharp and was no the typical Academy kid. No offense to those who went to the academy but I'm sure most of you know what I mean.

[stract]

what's ######ed up about the Navy UPT grading process is that you could FINISH your training (i.e. not wash out) and still not get wings b/c you had too many "belows" and not enough "aboves". This happened to some folks while I was there. They didn't do poorly enough to get kicked out, but they apparently didn't do well enough as the completed their training to get wings. ######ed up Navy logic.

There was a Coastie in one of the other squadrons at Whiting (VT-6 I think) who was on his initial solo after contact check. Goes out into the area, has a good time, and then coming back into Whiting, gets the ole' waveoff lights from the RDO shack for whatever reason (too steep or something like that), so he goes around, and this time he porpoises the landing. Hit the ground so hard he actually collapsed the nose gear. So after the plane returns to terra firma after the hard bounce, the prop doesn't fare so well being that there's no nose gear anymore. So T-34 skids down the runway throwing sparks, prop gets bent all to hell (handlebar mustache...) and the stud decides to egress the plane.

But it gets better! The engine is still running, and the props are still trying to spin (tick, tick, tick on the runway), and the stud neglects to do an emergency shutdown before egressing. So the RDO has to come shut the plane down. At least the kid detached himself from the parachute before getting out (which is about the ONLY good thing he did during this whole sequence).

Needless to say, the next week, there's one less Coastie in pilot training. I saw that T-34 in the hangar and it was NOT a pretty sight.

If you ever see a T-34C with teeth painted on it, that means that particular A/C has had a gear-up landing in the past...

[Guest bunk22]

what's ######ed up about the Navy UPT grading process is that you could FINISH your training (i.e. not wash out) and still not get wings b/c you had too many "belows" and not enough "aboves". This happened to some folks while I was there. They didn't do poorly enough to get kicked out, but they apparently didn't do well enough as the completed their training to get wings. ######ed up Navy logic.

The Navy has based their selection process and often attrite process on the NSS (Navy Standard Score). It was based off their old grading system and not the new for the Navy, MPTS system. You probably know this but it's based on a bell curve, from 20 to 70. The standard cut-off for geting tailhook aircraft (jets or E2/C2) is 50. Not to long ago, it may have come from CNATRA, if a stud finished with an NSS below 35, he or she was attrited. The 35 cut-off has since been done away with and is now individual case dependent. I think the Navy often puts the 35 cut-off into place when it needs to reduce the number of student aviators in the program. When they need more, they do away with it. At least thats my theory.

Navy flight school isn't that hard and if a stud is finishing with way below average grades, there are plenty who can replace him/her with better grades. I feel the cut off should be in place. I'm an IP with VT-6 right now and from what I've seen as of late, a few studs have gone on to helo's who were just horrible. Didn't deserve to go IMO but the powers that be, for whatever reason, let them proceed. Some I doubt will make it through advanced helo's. Thats the thing, sometimes it is meant to be and sometimes it isn't. Completing the program with poor performance shouldn't mean one gets winged. Some folks are given chance after chance for whatever reason. I'm old school I guess, back when 3 downs (old program) meant you were out. I had one down in flight school during advanced, for FCLP's (Field Carrier Landing Practice) and I had to have a PRB, see the Skipper, etc. The new program has its advantages but gives to many chances to finish the program IMHO. The flaw in the system is letting a guy finish who is so below average then take his wings. If he's that bad, shoud be shot before finishing the program.

Edited December 30, 2007 by bunk22

[Guest Sparky]

When I was a tweet flt cc at sheppard I had the class leader as my student. I was pushing my 2nd class so I was excited about taking a class from start to finish (I picked up the last class about 1/3 of the way through). My assigned student seemed like a good enough guy and I was hoping he was a little better than the class leader that washed in the previous class. That guy was good dude, great attitude w/ absolutely zero talent for flying airplanes (was a great nav from what I heard..and is now a nav again). So this new stud I got was the #1 overall grad from the AF Academy a couple years prior...he took an education delay to get a couple of Master's degrees from MIT before coming to ENJJPT. He flew 4-5 rides with me before coming into my office and asking to talk. He was quitting and said this was a lot "harder" than he thought it would be! I guess a double Masters from MIT was a piece of cake! I gave him the standard flt cc garb telling him to take a day and think about what he really wanted to do and come back tomorrow and we will discuss it further. He came in the next day and sure enough...he was done. Said he never really wanted to be a pilot, but he did so well at the academy that it was just thrown at him. That really pissed me off...some dude not being man enough to admit what he already knew before he took a slot that someone else could have benefitted from. After that conversation, I was not concerned one bit with trying to convince this guy to stay. The leadership had different thoughts though, once the Wing CC got wind of the situation...he wanted to speak to the dude personally. I guess they didnt want the #1 academy douche to SIE. Oh well, the only loss was the slot that some other deserving guy didnt get.

[sputnik]

Let us not forget Troy Hartman. Kind of famous for a while there. He washed out of the Academy and never made it to UPT so doesn't really qualify for this topic but good story anyway. He was in trouble for many things, but what ultimately did him in was hitting a cow, no shit, with an Aero club Cessna. For a variety of non interesting reasons I didn't like the guy, but I always had utter respect for the way he went out. His was my favorite kicked out of Academy story, long before he turned into super stunt man.

Found his website. Apparently he's the guy who did the flaming parachute photo that one out of every two people on APC use as an avatar.

http://www.troyhartman.com/

[zrooster99]

I did everything necessary to get accepted there, and that is where I ended up 5 days after high school graduation. I stayed in the Air Force for four years while earning my "wings" as a flight instructor. I also did my first parachute jump during this time.

Wow, he must have graduate from high school pretty late...there was over a month between graduation and BCT for my class...the USAFA commitment is 5 years so we know that's bullsh!t and if he had "earned his wings" he would have had an 8 year commitment at that point in time. Presumably he was a Soaring IP or something and glossed over the fact he was booted...what a bunch of bullsh!t.

[sputnik]

Wow, he must have graduate from high school pretty late...there was over a month between graduation and BCT for my class...the USAFA commitment is 5 years so we know that's bullsh!t and if he had "earned his wings" he would have had an 8 year commitment at that point in time. Presumably he was a Soaring IP or something and glossed over the fact he was booted...what a bunch of bullsh!t.

Yeah I thought that was kind of odd too. I didnt' get into his site till after I posted, certainly did look kind of lame. If you read further into it he talks about getting kicked out. He got interviewed by playboy a few years back and went into more detail. He got kicked out prior to grad, fairly certain as a firstie but couldn't swear to it. Not sure how he punted the enlisted time but as I recall about that point the enlisted force was a little pissed that academy washouts got sent to them. Maybe he paid off the debt, definately made enough.

And I did find this:

http://www.dropzone.com/interviews/TroyHar...selessand.shtml

Why the hell do I feel like I'm defending the guy, you're right his statment was a bit gay. Frankly, I think saying you got kicked out of the Academy for hitting a cow is pretty damn cool. Beats "washed out cause I couldn't figure out Calculus."

Edited December 31, 2007 by sputnik

[skibum]

I saw this on Hartman's site where he talks about his time at the zoo:

"I juggled this with traveling and competing on the ski team"

USAFA didn't have a ski team at the time. This is total BS. I'm callin' him out on his stolen ski valor. Those of us who have given our lives for skiing should unite against this farce.

[zrooster99]

As for the hitting the cow incident, Academy lore has it that he hit a fence, not a cow. Unless I'm mixing this up with another Cessna vs barnyard incident, but I don't think so.

[TheGreatWaldo]

You probably know this but it's based on a bell curve, from 20 to 80.

Bunk,

I agree with the rest of your comment, however, there are a few IPs in advanced that have argued the ever changing bell curve dilemma. For example, if you get enough guys through the program that kick ass (thus pushing the curve to the right), you could be an average pilot and never down a flight but end up with an NSS below 35. It's all relative to the previous 200 people.

[amcflyboy]

Bunk,

I agree with the rest of your comment, however, there are a few IPs in advanced that have argued the ever changing bell curve dilemma. For example, if you get enough guys through the program that kick ass (thus pushing the curve to the right), you could be an average pilot and never down a flight but end up with an NSS below 35. It's all relative to the previous 200 people.

I'll have to agree with you on that one, as well. We had a LOT of guys in my class do extraordinarily well (because a good number of them were Guard guys like me, but had been working for the Regionals for a few years prior to UPT), but I'll admit I was one of those average pilots, WITH a couple of downed flights (so maybe I'm not average to some of you), and ended the program with a low score.

Edited December 31, 2007 by amcflyboy

[Guest bunk22]

Bunk,

I agree with the rest of your comment, however, there are a few IPs in advanced that have argued the ever changing bell curve dilemma. For example, if you get enough guys through the program that kick ass (thus pushing the curve to the right), you could be an average pilot and never down a flight but end up with an NSS below 35. It's all relative to the previous 200 people.

My bad, meant 20 through 80. Problem is, the new MPTS doesn't work with the NSS...as I'm told by the wing folks. It has always been relative to the last 200 students and it has affected some people. The theory is even if there are 10 Chuck Yeagers going through, there will be a few in that group below average. Life's a bitch and often unfair. But on the flip side of that, some folks make it through who should absolutely not make it through. This new program allows more mistakes than the old. I've done both and this comes from my observation. I've given some UNSATs that would have been downs in the old days. Instead of a down, two ET's and a refly, the stud just continues to move on. Maybe it's more effecient from a cost standpoint and this is what matters to the bean counters. Maybe in the end, the total number of quality aviators is no different than the old way. I don't know. I'm hearing complaints coming down the line though, from the FRS squadrons of winged aviators not being up to par. What makes them not up to PAR? I don't know....this info came from Stucon and the wing through the montly NAPPI (used to be called NAPPI when I was stucon at the FRS) discussions. Of course what I hear is passdown and not always as accurate as it might be from the source.

Edited December 31, 2007 by bunk22

[Guest bunk22]

I'll have to agree with you on that one, as well. We had a LOT of guys in my class do extraordinarily well (because a good number of them were Guard guys like me, but had been working for the Regionals for a few years prior to UPT), but I'll admit I was one of those average pilots, WITH a couple of downed flights (so maybe I'm not average to some of you), and ended the program with a low score.

Thats life then, sometimes you can't win them all. As a VT-6 IP I've seen some guys with 500 hours just suck while recently, a stud with no prior flight time was top notch. Then you get prior NFO's who just smoke the program, offsetting the curve, etc. It is what it is. Not sure how the Air Force does it but the Navy's needs always come first which can screw you just as much as the bell curve.

[Riddller]

... I was a nav before UPT. Everyone told me "Oh, it'll be easy! You were a nav, you'll be fine! You know how to talk on a radio, etc, etc." "Bison 22 Dogface, Contact Spins...WTF does that mean?" I struggled early in Tweets...

I'm in the EXACT same boat right now, starting UPT in 4 weeks. My wife, her parents, my parents, EVERYONE has said that crap to me, and to be honest, I'm a bit worried! I keep telling people, "Sure, I can talk on the radios, big deal! It comes down to the monkey skills and can I do them!" During my whopping 62 hours in a C-172 and DA-20, it took me just as long as everyone else to figure it out! Guess I'll be finding out soon...

It's nice to know others have been there too though...