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  • 2 months later...

111 years ago today.


Also, 16 Dec marked 70 years from the start of the Battle of the Bulge.

Also kudos to the first Crew Chief Charlie Taylor who built the powerplant out of aluminum who did it in 6 weeks that made this possible.

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Of note, I believe this is the year many KC-135's start being closer in date of manufacture to the Wright Brothers first powered flight than they are to today. We're 2 years out from the current buffs also getting that proud distinction.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Since it's in the news/a few tidbits;

Yemen has been in an almost constant state of Civil War or Insurgency for the last 50 years or so

(8 conflicts/insurgencies and still counting). Saudi Arabia has been involved in most of these conflict, either directly or indirectly. Also, Yemen Civil Wars haven't been good to foreign armies that decide to play in the Yemen Sand Box. Atleast this time the Saudis and Egyptians are on the same side but that wasn't always the case. The North Yemen Civil War,1962 - 1970, pitted proxies Saudi Arabia and Egypt against each other. During this little known conflict, also known as

Egypt's Vietnam, the Egyptians deployed an Army of 70,000 troops to fight in this Yemeni Civil War and suffered 26,000

troops KIA.

Egyptian military historians refer to the war in Yemen as their Vietnam; The wiki version but there's other case studies specifically covering "Egypt's Vietnam" available;


Mecca captured/sacked by the Shia. The Saudis/Sunnis don't forget stuff like this.

1. The Yemen Zaidi (Shia) tribes captured/sacked Mecca in 1632.

2. This is a strange one; The Qarmatians conquered and sacked Mecca in 930. The Qaramiṭians were also known as the "Greengrocers" (al-Baqliyyah) because of their strict vegetarian habits.

Excerpt; The Qarmatians were a syncretic religious group that combined elements of the Ismaili Shia branch of Islam with Persian Mysticism centered in Al-Hasa (Eastern Arabia), where they established a religious utopia republic in 899. They

are most famed for their revolt against the Abbasid Caliphate. Mecca was sacked by the sect’s leader Abu-Tahir

Al-Jannabi, outraging the Muslim world, particularly with their theft of the Black Stone and desecration of the Zamzan

Well with corpses during the Haji season of 930. The death toll was reported to be in the tens of thousands and the

number of people who were enslaved was said to be around thirty thousand.

The Shia/Persian Qarmatians.


Yemen an Empire Crushing wasteland. Example;

1. The Ottoman Empires first attempt to conquer Yemen: The Ottoman Empire initially sent an Army of 80,000 men to

conquer Yemen in 1539 and by 1547 all but 7,000 had been killed. The Ottoman Empire continued to send additional

military expeditions into Yemen but finally tired of the constant tribal warfare/casualties and withdrew. Mecca was

temporarily captured/sacked In 1632 by Yemen Zaidi (Shia) Tribes as the Ottoman Army was finally being driven out of


2. The Ottoman Empires second attempt to conquer Yemen; After a 200 + year absence from Yemen the Ottoman Empire

decided to give it another try. In 1849 they invaded Yemen again and meet with basically the same results as the first

attempt. For example; The Ottoman Army averaged 10,000 troops KIA per year from 1904 - 1911.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Came across this, think I would be the guy going down with his last bullet.



Edited by Prosuper
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  • 1 month later...

Bottom line; Watch the movie "Go Tell the Spartans" and draw your own conclusions. The rest of the info is mostly pointless rambling and trying to make subtle similar

comparisons between the French Hedgehog Strategy, US Civilian Irregular Defense Group

(CIDG) Strategy, and the Lily Pad Strategy.

Part 1; The Iraq Lily Pad Strategy.

Dempsey Unveils 'Lily Pad' Strategy for ISIS Campaign.


Part 2; The Movie "Go Tell the Spartans".

Plot summary; Depicts a unit of American military advisors in Vietnam, prior to major U.S. involvement in the war. They find similarities between their helpless struggle against the Viet Cong and the

doomed actions of a French unit fighting the Viet Minn at the same site a decade before in this bitter look at the beginnings of the Vietnam War.

Maybe in a few years it will be time for a sequel of this early Vietnam era movie. This movie is based on the CIDG strategy in Vietnam (1964 timeframe) and as you'll see in the movie "some things haven't

changed much".

Go Tell the Spartans; https://vimeo.com/109417275

Part 3; A brief history on French and US COIN type Strategies in Vietnam;

Vietnam War Round 1; The French Indochina War.

The French version of the Lily Pad Strategy was called the "Hedgehog Strategy".

The French Hedgehog concept involved putting numerous "isolated" bases/outpost in the heart of Viet

Minh territory, mostly along the Laos/Vietnam border. All of these outpost were either overrun or

abandoned by the French.

Vietnam War Round 2; The Vietnam War/The US picks up where the French failed with a new and improved

COIN strategy.

The US version of the Lily Pad Strategy in Vietnam was primarily U.S. Special Forces CIDG

camps/outposts. The CIDG program ran from 1961 to 1973 and the first camp/outpost was established in

1962. By late 1964/early 1965 "before the Vietnam War really got going" there were already 80 plus

CIDG camps/outpost established. There were way to many of these camps/outpost to list here but I did

highlight a few examples. These camps/outpost were located deep in enemy territory and most changed

hands many times (overrun/evacuated/abandoned/turned over to the ARVN, etc.) . Some other close

examples of the Vietnam version of "Lily Pads" would be Fire Bases, Forward Operations Base, etc.

Some Examples;

Example 1; CIDG outpost "A Luro'i"/since it's first on the list of CIDG outposts;

1962; Outpost opened/occupied by 5th SFG.

1966; Outpost abandoned due to PAVN siege.

1968 Apr; Outpost reoccupied and then abandoned again.

1968 Aug; Outpost reoccupied and then abandoned again.

1969 Outpost reoccupied/turned over to the ARVN/eventually abandoned by the ARVN.

Example 2; CIDG outpost Dak Seang. Resupplying/rescuing WIA/CAS/evacuation/etc. was extremely

dangerous for aircrews/aircraft (Summarized as follows during one of the many sieges on this outpost/

1 Apr - 8 May 1970). Only aircraft with complete info are listed below but many more aircraft were shotdown/damaged during this seige.

2 April 1970, C-7A Caribou #61-2406 was shot down while dropping supplies to Dak Seang,

3 Aircrew KIA.

4 April 1970, C-7B Caribou #62-4180 was shot down while dropping supplies to Dak Seang,

3 Aircrew KIA.

6 April 1970, C-7B Caribou #63-9746 was shot down while dropping supplies to Dak Seang,

3 Aircrew KIA.

15 April 1970 UH-1H #68-16203 was shot down while landing ARVN troops resulting in 2 U.S. and 2 ARVN


15 April 1970 HH-3E #66-13280 (Jolly 27) from the 37th Aerospace Rescue and Recovery Squadron was shot down while trying to rescue the crew of UH-1H #68-16203 resulting in 2 Aircrew KIA/2 WIA.

Source; C-7 Caribou/Dak Seang; http://www.c-7acaribou.com/news/vol21i1.pdf

Additiopnal info; 15 April 1970; One day sample (estimated) of other aircraft (not enough data to

include in the above list) shot down/damaged during the siege of Dak Seang.

1 Additional UH-1 shot down.

8 UH-1 shot up/severely damaged.

1 HH-3E (Jolly 29) shot up/severely damaged. The bird was later scrapped due to severe battle damage.

1 OH-6 shot up/severely damaged.

2 Cobra Gunships shot up/severly damaged.

Source; http://macvsog.cc/dak_seang_15_apr_70.htm

Note; The same "Lily Pad Type Strategy" was tried by the USSR during the Soviet Afghan War and by the US during our current adventure in Afghanistan. Some of the Combat Outpost US forces utilized in

Afghanistan were previously occupied by the Soviets during their war in Afghanistan, the British Empireduring their wars in Afghanistan, etc.

Edited by waveshaper
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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...

Actually, a mix of 500lb mk82s (the thinner ones) off the wing pylons, and 750lb mk117s (the fatter ones) out of the D-model's "big belly". They made a heck of a mess when they hit, especially if they came from a three ship, strung out beside each other about 400m apart and extending over a mile (roughly a 600-700m x 1200m rectangle). Occasionally they'd ask for BDA and I'd go down to look. The "assessment" was usually something like "On target...half mile by a mile of tree splinters and mud." Of course, they never told us what the target actually was, so the only accurate part was the tree splinters and mud.

Due to my stupidity (turned Guard off earlier and forgot to turn it back on), I flew right through the bomb train once over Laos (in my OV-10) and "rode the surf" at about 5,000 AGL. Impressive!!

Edited by HiFlyer
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