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Karl, don't be so dramatic. Nobody forces anybody to check boxes or get AAD/PME done. And we don't make pariahs out of someone who just wants to fly. They just don't tend to get promoted. I had plenty of passed over, continued Capts, Majors and Lt Cols in my units who were outstanding pilots, navs, and officers. They volunteered to deploy multiple times, worked long hours, and were incredible mentors for the young flyers. Some did not want to be promoted and did not do those things that clearly made them competitive amongst their peers. Some accepted continuation, some retired, some separated when the time was right for them. Many regretted not getting the things done (PME/AAD) to be competitive and mentored young officers to just do it. If you only want to fly the line like a Lt or Capt, and don't want to broaden your experiences and skills with education and non-flying jobs, why would you expect to be promoted into ranks and positions of different responsibility and authority that require joint PME, education and staff experience? Granted, as a passed over officer, wanting to fly for the rest of your career, you may be separated to make room (flying time) for younger Lts and Capts. There are no guarantees for flying positions in the service, we all know that. Force structure, funding, requirements, retention and force management policies all change. If you are not suited for advancement or promotion, for whatever reason, the service should consider whether it is best for the service for you to stay, or go. When airlines are hiring and retention is low, continued officers can usually stay as long as they want to. When there are more young pilots then we have flying time to sustain, continued officers will normally be separated (the 157). By law, 100% promotion is not permitted for FGOs. Unless retention is severely low, people will get passed over. No hard feelings, just the law or the reality of resource constraints. Some people over-inflate their own value to the service when the reality is their mediocre record of performance, limited experience and low potential to perform at the higher grades make them less valuable than other officers being considered. In my experience, the promotion board to Maj and Lt Col usually gets it right and promotes the most deserving. I've studied the records of those above and below the line, and I've compared many records to my assessment of their job performance and promotion potential. I've personally counseled dozens of passed over officers about what was weak in their record and explained why they were not competitive. YMMV, and sometimes we tend to value the wrong things (AAD at Major being go-no-go) but I think it is a decent system that usually gets it right. CSAF is fixing some shortcomings now. It is a good thing we are letting people separate who actually want to separate, even with ADSCs, since we need to reduce the force. The airlines and ARC will be better off with this talented hiring pool. For the sake of the AF's future, they should not pollute too many young minds on their way out. We need talented and dedicated active duty officers of all ranks to fly our aircraft and fight our wars.

You can file this thread under "shit that just doesn't matter a whole lot"

Pics would help us decide.

This argument could not be any dumber.

That is the stupidest list I have ever seen.

The Forks is 6, Cannon is 10, and Hickam is 47. Seems legit.

Short answer, no. In fact I do believe most squadrons expect you to continue applying to other units; would it be fair for you to be on hold 1.5+ years for the first applicant to go through the background check, get to UPT, etc etc etc just to tell you "okay he/she made it! Thanks for waiting but you can move on now!" Sometimes stuff happens where the primary selection can't pass a background check, has a glaring medical issue, or something of that nature that they find out within a few months. When that happens, it's nice to have an alternate to send or (correct me if I'm wrong) the unit just loses that slot for that year. So everybody wins, but keep applying.

Why would you of all people ever bother posting in the ATP thread, ya closet airline wannabe :D /tc

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The people I've seen who bitched about the queep and just wanted to fly were the ones instructors/evaluators were against upgrading in TRP because they sucked at flying.

1. Go with him, it's better to be with a significant other than without there. 2. Get married (JoP if you want to wait for a real wedding) so you can use his benefits, get free healthcare, and make a lot more money as a dependent. Or breakup...but you should know by now after 4.5 years Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

No, I never took the mil-comp commercial. I went from a PPL (SE-land) to an ATP (ME-Land). I quoted what I did because what Smokin says, and nunya validates as "correct" is actually false. IAW CFR 61.153, one who meets the military requirements in CFR 61.73 does not "have to already have a commercial license in order to do the practical ATP exam", nor do they "just need to go take the commercial test." I'm trying to make it clear to anyone who reads through this thread that a military pilot that satisfies the requirements of CFR 61.73 does not need to get a commercial rating or take the mil-comp commercial test in order to take the ATP written or practical.

Agreed. Closed.

I know someone who had zero civilians ratings...never took a mil-comp anything. At the 19.69 yr point of flying fighters, he went to Accessible and did the ground study, written, and practical in one week. He still has nothing on the SE side, just the ATP-ME. Cap-10 Posted from the NEW Baseops.net iOS App!

I don't know why everyone is so upset. This is obviously the best choice for Immigration control.

The fact you think an American flag patch promotes individuality is amazingly wrong. It's the opposite. And Ho Lee, why so aggressive? In response to other comments. . . Yes, the uniform is enough. My issue lies with people thinking the flag is not good enough to be on it. I got it, historically the flag hasn't been on the uniform. But, in my generation it has. So, I take pride in it. I shut up and colored and am wearing the wing patch. I thought people would see the bigger picture here. It transcends patches. But I'm sure many will think I'm making mountains out of molehills.

Everything you said is true. However, you left out something a ton of my peers are doing- getting their ATPs, networking with guard/reserve units, polishing their airline apps, and counting down the days until they can leave this organization, all in part because of how we force people to check ridiculous boxes and cast them as pariahs if they dare to desire to fly for a career. To lots of people, going to school and working a joint staff job sounds absolutely miserable.

Malaysian Airlines can be had for really cheap right now... Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

Gays weren't allowed in the military either.

Agreed, Americans first. Disagree that we should increase the Border Patrol's budget one bit, at least not until they get their goons off the interior highways 100 miles from any border violating our Constitution regularly, and instead take their fannies to the border and get serious about actually defending the border. Our good friend PYB will be on Fox News this weekend to talk about just that on John Stossel's special, "Policing America: Security vs Liberty."

Because the other guy didn't look like Steve Urkel?

So were there no illegal immigrants prior to this administration or are you saying all administrations are guilty of this?

I agree with medical/criminal screenings. I've said in the past a managed program where everyone (with very few limitations) can be accounted for and brought into the fold. Why do I ignore Israel? Maybe because our length of land border is 12x the size of theirs. It's definitely a heck of a lot cheaper to carpet and maintain that carpet in a 500 sqft apartment than it is a 6000 sqft McMansion.

Just think, if we changed the immigration process so that those we would otherwise come in illegally could now come in legally we wouldn't HAVE to spend additional resources beefing up border security and could free up additional dollars to help our own. What a novel concept! But no, let's keep throwing more money at a process that is clearly and utterly broken.