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The abortion (and by extension, pregnancy and children's) issue doesn't live in a vacuum. It touches on healthcare access, economic issues, and societal/community support both during pregnancy and through when that child becomes an adult. 1- The state isn't making that decision to abort a pregnancy, typically it's the mother. If we were looking at state-directed abortion or sterilization, then you have a point here, but that's not the case. However, the US still allows forced sterilization, which was upheld by the supreme court...(you could argue that this just prevents life from starting, or that this is the government's way of killing off kids before they can even be conceived) 2- Your argument doesn't address problems with triage. How do you weigh the life of the mother against the life of the unborn baby? If carrying the baby to term will kill the mother, who's life is more important? And who should make that decision (the mother who's life is in danger, or someone else)? 3- It also ignores the need for access to medical care, both for the the mother and baby, and not just for the pregnancy, but through the first several months after birth, assuming no complications. 4-We also don't have any real mandated maternity leave (sure, they can take 12 weeks of unpaid leave through FMLA assuming they meet the criteria, but what pays the bills then?). Maybe if you work for a decent company and have decent insurance, they'll get some maternity pay, but likely reduced from normal. 5-Should women who have a miscarriage be charged with manslaughter? 6-Should a mother with a fetus with known serious genetic disorders be forced to give birth to the child, when that child will suffer and live a very shortened life? What if the parents have no means to pay for the medical care for that child? It's laughable to think the gov will pay for that child's medical bills-the parents would likely go bankrupt doing what they can for the kid, or be judged harshly (or criminally) for "letting" the kid die if they don't exhaust every avenue for medical treatment. 7- There's the personal choice argument as well-don't have sex unless you're ready to have a baby. Sure, if you want to take that hard stance, then why not apply it elsewhere and be consistent? Should a drunk driver that wraps their car around a tree receive medical treatment? Should insurance be forced to cover their medical bills for an objectively bad (science shows alcohol degrades cognitive and motor skills needed to operate a car) and illegal personal choice? Should they be allowed to discharge the medical debt through bankruptcy, or should they be forced to pay off what they owe for services provided or harm/damage caused regardless of how long it takes (or maybe cap it at 18 years of payments...). I don't see how people can believe so strongly that abortion is wrong, and yet work so hard against helping that child be born healthy (specifically, access to healthcare and paid maternity leave), as all of those issues show how society values life. If it's so important to society that the child is born, even against the mother's wishes, society should pay to ensure the child is born healthy and has a support network after birth (which means people need to be willing to adopt or foster kids when the birth parents do not wish to raise the kid). I'm not advocating for abortion, nor do I believe that is generally the right choice. But there's enough edge cases where it may be the best option available given the circumstances involved. So I'd rather defer the choice from government to the individual, to make the choice that is right for them, rather than have the government dictate what to do.

You literally wrote "religion" In your second sentence. Can an infant be an individual if it is wholly reliant on another person for existence?

They all agree huh? I'm anti-abortion, but to act as though it's a settled topic is pretty obtuse. Using your words, define "person."

One of the Chuavin jurors looks like he lied to the judge about his knowledge of and bias towards the trial. On the record and under oath that "he only had a vague knowledge of the case." (paraphrased) Photos/social media of him a few months BEFORE being selected showing him wearing a "Get off our necks" shirt and his comments on a local radio show this week where he says "We need to take action by being part of the system." Just can't help bragging on taking down the "man," even if that bragging adds bigly to an appeal's overturning of the some or all of the charges.

Now that Jenner is opposing Newsome for the governor of California...she's out of the LGBT club.

You can’t reason with the far left (and right)—they’re the same people who think that it’s racist to require an ID to vote and it’s like Jim Crow, but yet requiring that same ID to purchase a gun is just “common sense”. We even have people on this site who support such nonsense. The difference I see is that for the most part it’s the left that has gotten far more extreme with their views in the last 10+ years. Remember when the left was against illegal immigration, and now if you even say the words the left will call you a racist? Just one of many examples. And sure there are examples on the right—the abortion issue for one. But again, which side has seen the greatest change in the last 10+ years? I think it’s obvious.

So, kind of like bops.net?

And that’s exactly why I’m going to stomach a third of the pay for a while: the ability for my duty to be just flying. It’s not the most exciting flying in the world, but there aren’t any ADO qweepdoms. But that’s what will work for me. YMMV.

In here again. Bonus is some good Ann Margret footage.

Road Warrior Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sure. Abortion is an individual decision. @bfargin quoted the constitution and bolded 'life' implying it referred to abortion. I highlighted "nor shall any state" because it doesn't apply to an individuals actions, only the state. 🤨 Science and logic usually don't agree with religion on anything. Let me know if I incorrectly inferred what you were saying (that the constitution, science, logic, and reason are all against abortion).

That is the best management logic for not giving a great paying contract that I've ever read.

This has nothing to do with individual choices. Also, your religious beliefs are irrelevant.

Not to get on an abortion debate, but do you think women who get an abortion should be charged with murder?

Sweet, just in time for the boneyard.

It's not nearly as bad here. Some threads get a little echo chamber-ey but there's nothing stopping more liberal users from chiming in if they want to. And they usually do. In contrast, my comments which aren't even that conservative would be blocked for even a slight deviation from the orthodoxy. Or the grave crimes of asking a probing question or playing devils advocate. Trust me it's much better here, but that isn't to say we can't be careful and always think critically to ensure we don't go in that direction too.

Doesn’t sound like you and others have been in agreement with much of what’s been posted over the last several years (and vice versa)...so no, not like bops.net.

There is no intellectual basis for the policies of the progressive left anymore. Even the marxist part of the party is at odds with the critical race theory nonsense. "Reason" implies that there are such things as right answers. Debate is a form of multi-party reasoning, so if you're entire ideology is based on falsehoods, debate is a threat. The only logical thing the left does these days is stifle debate. Reminds me of the conservatives when they were nonstop railing against gay marriage. A bunch of small-government warriors demanding the federal government protect their religious ceremony from copy cats. Funny seeing the parties completely switch which one gets to be insane over 20 years.

The irony of a free press is that it is simultaneously a democracy's/republic's greatest defender and greatest threat. When the press does its watchdog role faithfully against the government irrespective of who is in power, it is vital to our system of governance. But when it decides to become merely the propaganda arm for one political party, then it is dangerous.

Been eight years...to them! 🍺🍺🍺

Congratulations, one more pass over and you get paroled early… just in time for the major boom in hiring. Timing is everything, availability is key and you hit the jackpot. The airlines are surprisingly full of passed over Captains (me) laughing all the way to the bank. Let me know if you have any questions on the process. It seems scary, but it’s truly the best thing to ever happen to you.

I also left AD during the pandemic and have not regretted it one second.** I was also able to receive the bonus where if I'd stayed on Active Duty I would've had to wait another year for eligibility (fiscal years). **Note to the younger guys: I cherish my 11 years on AD and would not have done it any other way (e.g. joining the guard directly).

No Fear Thanks fellas. Fear is really all over politics and its corrosive. Im at total peace. Put the above video out yesterday on Fear to begin that convo on what is driving our politics and what is the next generation learning, besides be crazy=get famous.

Don't know him personally or professionally as I'm not in his district, hope he's an ok guy in person and will accept those testimonials about the many things he's done for service folk. Appreciate that. However, his constituents, the ones he's elected to represent seem to disagree with his stance rather strongly to include at least one county, I believe two but stand to be corrected, GOP committee censuring him for his vote to impeach Trump. The one county I am aware of is LaSalle County which is part of his district. Other county so censuring Iroquois which is also within this district. His choice to roll the dice to see if they either forget by next election or whether his district gets dissolved by the Illinois legislature as is likely if the state loses a congressional seat due to redistricting. I do take issue with his vote to strip the bat-sh1t crazy Georgia congresswoman of all her committee assignments. He helped deny her constituents their effective representation that they knowingly elected her to. As always in politics, IMO, it's a case of follow the money. His just started anti-Trump PAC combined with his many appearances on liberal media looks like a way to set up a comfy post-congressional lifestyle, either via K Street and/or TV gigs. Don't blame him a bit but it just strikes me as the B-model Scarborough. edited to add the specific counties which is in the district being discussed.