Leaderboard

I do. That's exactly what I said. We do demand this. Our leadership returns the favor by slapping us in the face. They call us rapists and racists and file paperwork for using foul language. They use us as sacrificial lambs to prove to their bosses how they're tackling the sexual assault problem. Our leaders demand we shoulder the work while also being shit on and blamed for their inept leadership shortfalls. We do. The only people accusing us of not showing all Airmen respect are hypocrites like you who have never spent one single operational day in a fighter squadron. I spent about an hour reading a summary of every sexual assault conviction the Air Force has experienced from 2009-2013. Guess how many fighter pilots were on that list. I assume you didn't read the same report so I'll give you the answer. It's zero. I asked the SARC at my last base how many sexual assaults were reported across each Group. Guess what Group was the only Group with zero reported. I'll give you the answer. The Ops Group. The Group with the absolute lowest amount of reported offenses is the same goddam Group being blamed for all of the problems. You go on and on about our stupid frat boy traditions and how we need to clean our acts up in order to keep the military in order. WE ARE LITERALLY THE ONLY GROUP WHO IS ACTING LIKE PROPER MILITARY MEN. YOU ARE CHASING DOWN THE WRONG GROUP OF PEOPLE. Look at reality. Look at the facts. Focus your efforts on a group of people that need your attention. We aren't doing this. Look at the facts. Put your biased personal opinions aside and look at the reports. Read the facts. The Ops Group is NOT where you need to focus your hunt. Maybe they did. Those dudes aren't us. Don't give yourself that much credit. You didn't grow us. You didn't allow us to grow. The same personality type has been flying and/or fighting in wars for centuries. It's you who will be the downfall our military. It's you who will send every warfighter to pasture in favor of a more docile force. You, by your own admission, had the same personality in your early military days. You now have no qualms about throwing others under the bus for your own politically driven gain. You didn't do shit to grow us. You're using us as scapegoats to further your own career. If you have ignored everything else I've said, please read this carefully. My point is this; If you were right.... if your assertions were correct... if your viewpoints were correct.... if your gamelan was correct... things would be improving. Perverts and rapists and racists and frat boys would be forced out of the military and good, hardy young men would be joining. If you were right... the rate of sexual assaults would be decreasing significantly with every bad pilot purged. If your opinions and actions were correct.... the ship would be righting itself. Why don't you go ahead and tell me what's happening with the pilot force as you continue to treat them like criminals. How's the retention rate and new recruitment working out? Why don't you go ahead and tell me how we're doing in terms of reducing sexual assault. How's that going? If you and your opinions were correct, we wouldn't still be having this conversation. Take a good, long look in the mirror and ask yourself what effects your actions are really having on our force.

Whenever I've seen an attempt to mentor an airman outside my own organization, I've seen that airman complain about it to their boss, which eventually results in a SQ/CC to SQ/CC phone call, ending in disaster for the "mentor".

It is very degrading. To everyone. How offensive is it to be part of a group that seemingly needs protection and can only succeed by toppling the "white male club?" I would like to think that my efforts and skills are what gets me to the place I want to be, not some outside force that feels the military is too homogeneous. Will I have to go through my career wondering if I got awarded or promoted because I'm an Asian female and there are few of us in the services? Or can I take pride in the fact that I dedicate myself 100% to my job?

This is exactly why I can't take you seriously. This wasn't some 'study', this was an actual product produced by the Pentagon to be used to train EO's in how to reduce/deal with workplace discrimination. But yet, you don't see that this is discriminatory! You're either a person who assumes that 100% of what comes out of the Pentagon is perfect...or you're a huge liberal who truly buys into the fact that 'white, Christian, heterosexual males' truly do receive many 'unearned advantages'. Do you know my background good sir? Do you know if I have received 'unearned advantages'...or do you just assume this because the Pentagon said so, and because of what my skin color is, what gender I like to bang, and what I do on my Sundays? If the Pentagon came out and said 'black women, who also happen to be homosexual and atheist' have unearned advantages and largely get to where they are because of affirmative action policies'...would this be ok to you? That's essentially what this article says about whites, just the reverse. I do believe racism exists and there are issues that EO handles everyday...I never said anything to the contrary. But it seems that you don't have a problem with one group being singled out unfairly.

^This. Try explaining to the IG why having something like "unlimited potential" on your push is effectively a career killer.

That architectural identity crisis has always been a defining part of the Air Force. The problem is as you suggest, the peacetime leadership's misguided attempt at providing the shoe a sense of belonging by chastising the trigger puller. In a true peer fight the shoe gets told to stfu. But this decade isn't gonna be it. As such it's the decade for corporate managers with an underlying testosterone deficiency to rule for a while. Remember the rule of life: it's all timing and luck in this life. There is no justice. Ill keep flying until they sideline me or fire me. Then ill go so something else. Fuck em.

Serious question: What if instead of a 365 or a cancelled assignment the supervisor/commander instead put coded words in the OPR push line? What do you think the IG would do? I've seen this TTP used many times by different CCs, this protects them from an investigation and still manages to damage an officer's career. You ask us to be courageous, but it's not a one way street. What are you, and the other GOs, as "leaders" doing to foster the environment where courage is rewarded and not punished? And yes, I've spoken up about things to my chain that I didn't think was right only to have my career damaged while nothing happened to the other parties. I'm not the only one though, I have other good bros who have similar experiences. It's usually the ones who keep their mouth shut and play the game that gets the strats and continue to climb the corporate ladder.

No tried that once got a call from their CC, spent an hour explaining to the FLT/CC how their airman was knowingly giving me bad info because they didn't want to go look it up, it took me 30 plus minutes to convince them that their airman was actually wrong, and that I did have the ability to tell them they weren't doing their job. I was surprised at that phone call; it was the fast thing finance had ever done for me, plus good luck finding said leadership between their hours and then that's if they are even there when they are open. You can't "mentor" or hell just tell them they aren't doing their job if they aren't in your chain of command. Everyone's a 5 and single-handedly winning the war, or it's all about kingdoms, you can't tell someone that their people aren't doing their job.

Finkle is Einhorn!

Make any generalized statement regarding any other group other than HWCMs and you would be the guest of honor at the end of the a rope. So, if you are a HWCM, better keep your mouth shut, if you aren't a HWCM, feel free to see every problem you encounter in the framework of racism and sexism because I'm sure that is the reason you have a problem.

only problem is, that exact procedure gets you killed in the MC-12 when you are in a climbing left turning stall.......

Makes sense on why the plug got pulled. Not to detour too far off from the F-35 topic of the thead but googling more on the Comanche after your comment, I found this Time article here. And these two paragraphs seem particularly relevant to the F-35 saga: They continually piled on requirements by the bucketload and relied on technologies which did not actually exist – so many gadgets that the engines couldn’t get the thing off the ground and so many design changes that the ink never really dried on the blueprints. And then they tried to fix these problems by adding more time and money (see above). Perhaps the lesson is that military tech programs should exercise design restraint, establish strict budget and schedule constraints, and rely on proven technologies to deliver necessary capabilities on operationally relevant timelines. This formula is much lauded among defense acquisition experts and leaders, but was clearly not implemented by the Comanche team. They spent 22 years doing the opposite. As before, the dye is cast for better or worse.

Ok. I guess I am making the same point. Quit bitching and whining (bunch of words) on a forum and actually do something to fix the things you can fix. Mentor your crew or your flight. Provide feedback to your commanders and the support squadron commanders. Lead the Airmen you are charged to lead. Teach them to focus on mission accomplishment. Like I said, a lot of tough talk on this forum, but not a lot of talk about actions. I was directly addressing, with my holier than thou rhetoric, a specific example of seeing something wrong and doing nothing about it. I know plenty of commanders, chiefs and shirts who dedicate their lives to making the AF better, taking care of the men and women they are responsible for, and accomplishing incredibly difficult missions. I don't see the same AF so many here complain about. Maybe because I act more than I talk. Maybe because I am out of touch. I do learn a lot here.

I take it you've never dealt with finance, I would love to have a paycheck where I wasn't overpaid or grossly underpaid (and by I, I mean many other people in my squadron too). I would love to tell my wife what I can expect my paycheck to be not feel like I'm playing the lottery everytime I look at my LES. Then when you say I'm leaving for two weeks on a mission, I need to figure out how I'm going to get the $1000 you owe me, they look at you weird and say you'll just have to wait. I ask if they can call and get this fixed (because I've had it done in the past), "no sorry we aren't going to do that". So now I get to call my wife and tell her my paycheck will be short this month, as I step to the jet. Here's another one, need gas mask for deployment. Get told I HAVE to make an appointment and not be late, because LRS doesn't like it. Well the gas maks fitting runs late, take the info to LRS, show up a couple minutes late get told by the airman I'm late, as he and his buddy are sitting there on their computer on Facebook. This list could go on and on, sock checks by the SSgt at the chow hall ect.

Black Diamond and Outdoor Research military pro deal. No shit 50% off retail. Apply on their websites.

Much like the rest of the DoD, the current fight in Afghanistan doesn't look at all like what AF Rescue exists to do. Big blue doesn't pay to keep us around to pick up people in a permissive environment with FOBs every ten feet. We exist to do long range CSAR into an IADS type threat environment, and since we are the air component's doctrinally required PR capability that means we pick up fighter pilots. The GSAB has a downed aircrew extraction mission too, it plays last fiddle on their METL, with VIP support being number one. TF Gabriel made good strides in OIF 1 but then disbanded.

AFN here wants to follow a pilot around for a week and make a documentary on "how the pilots contribute to the mission." Are you fucking kidding me, what we do IS the mission! Everything else (much of it very important) is supporting the end game, which is pilots killing bad guys and breaking their shit. On the plus side, I can't wait for this guy to work a 70 hr week and see how life is far from "fly for an hour and then fuck off the rest of the day."

Wait.. What's the difference?

Couldn't get the whole deal, but could see this snippet: Why do people say things like this? It's not some cosmic alternate reality machine; it definitely feels like you're sitting in Nevada in front of some computers with the crappiest radio ever fielded, all the time. I don't care how involved you are with the mission, it's not plugging into the matrix.

False choice. It isn't dedicated professional killer or soft-skinned politically correct poet. It is dedicated professional killer or more dedicated professional killer. Nobody is suggesting we don't hire the men and women that have wild hair on fire, aggressive, creative and fearless traits. Our leadership does demand this. You should too. We also expect you to know how to treat all Airmen with dignity and respect. There is nothing brave, professional or honorable about degrading anyone, from 1CO, to "shoes", to women in combat, to homosexuals, to muslims. I'm sure the soldiers who pissed on the dead Taliban fighters thought they were bonding like only true warriors do, but they were not and they are not who we need fighting our wars. We can kill just as many people, just as quickly and precisely, without the stupid ass frat boy traditions, sexual innuendos and porn. We made a terrible mistake growing and encouraging a generation of officers who thought this was ok and that it made them better warfighters. It doesn't and it won't matter in a few years when we forget this minor behavior course correction. What is your point?

Easily said on a no name internet forum....

I either assume 100% is true or I'm a liberal? Wrong. What exactly is unfair or discriminatory about this report/training again? Do you know what discrimination is? You don't like the author's assertion that WCHMs have unfair advantages or should be singled out as privileged? Ok, me either. Quit being so dramatic about this. Do the math. What percentage of the US population is military age MCHM? What percentage of serves in the military, all the way down to what percentage of those who fly AF aircraft are MCHM? I just guessing, but I bet the percentages go up and you get to your unit. How do you explain that? These authors probably (again, I haven't read the report) think it has to do with institutional and cultural advantages. Not saying I agree or disagree because as I have said, I haven't read the report, but I don't see what is pissing you off so much about this.

This is garbage. How are we chastising your so called "trigger pullers"? By cracking down on the stupid sex jokes and traditions? Misguided attempts to give the shoes a sense of belonging? How do you think you would get paid, get fuel, get parts, get weather, have the lights work in your building or any of the other thousand supoprt functions that we need to fly combat aircraft if there were no "shoes"? In a true peer fight you won't need "shoes", or they will appreciate you more? Do you really think the Army or corporate America would do a better job supporting you? Do you actually think you are capable of leading our force or a joint force into combat? Testosterone deficiency? #### off. If you actually spout this shit to our Airmen or young CGOs, I'll be glad to be a part of the process that sidelined you. I guess you have never had a boss you would rip your head off for saying juvenile crap like this. Corporate managers? We have more combat experience in our Air Force now, through all levels of leadership, than we have ever had. Not in peer air combat, but in killing the right people, protecting the right people and doing everything our nation has asked of the Air Force for over 12 years. How is there no justice? What injustices have the shoes imparted on you? Maybe this is troll bullshit, or maybe you actually believe this and spread it around. Never mind, just go do something else. Yeah, that courage thing is hard. You do know that if a commander or supervisor threatened you with a 365 or cancelled assignment for not doing something stupid you could go to the IG and have his/her ass fired in about a week. And you would keep this from happening to other people. And you've just sat on the sidelines and watched these heavy handed leaders make rank? So much tough talk from members on this forum, and so little action to do the right thing. If anyone threatened to cancel my assignment over a crew schedule disagreement, I would have their ass or have a different job. This is a dose of reality that makes me nauseous.

Sure you can. Be aggressive and creative. When you are right, you are right. I think you are reading too much into it. It is not degrading or discriminatory. Yes, diversity and the protections EO enable make us a stronger and more professional force. You are naive to think there are not legitimate complaints and resolutions handled by EO every day across our AF. The quotes you reference from this document do not call for reverse discrimination.