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Lord Ratner, First, the lesser of two evil's argument you keep repeating is such a lame cop-out. "Well....we must have a psycho, liar, piece-of-shit in office....it's just the price of politics" is such an obvious false dichotomy. There's no middle ground? Really? Everyone that's a liar is a liar to the same extreme? Everyone that's corrupt or narcissistic display those traits to the same degree? You know that’s nonsense. …."Like mosquitoes?" (--you just can’t get rid of them, so eff it?) Are you kidding me? You’re smarter than this, so I can only believe you're being intentionally disingenuous. Second, you act like there are no possible ways to suppress Trump's madness or hold him accountable. Once he's in office, that's it. He's in, so he just gets free rein? You’re going to tell me <verbatim> “that's just the politics that I have been delivered.” Wow. If you want to tuck your tail and embrace this “not my fault, can’t control it,” defeatist BS, enjoy. I see right-wingers with “We The People" and “Don’t Tread on Me” flags, stickers, and tattoos all the time. When did those slogans turn into “Govern me harder, daddy” and “Mmm, you’re tread tastes delicious??” See, this is a huge aspect of the “No Kings” protests that a lot of people on the right aren’t understanding. They think No Kings is about Trump personally. And no doubt, it is, to an extent. But many people are much less worried about Trump attempting to act like a King, as they are about the willingness and enthusiasm of so many people to push him along that way. The folks who encourage him to rule with unlimited power. And on the flip side of the coin, the folks who just allow it. The apathetic and resigned people (i.e. Lord Ratner), who can be just as dangerous as the enthusiastic ones because they just rollover and go along to get along. Go to one of his rallies. Listen to his cabinet members speak. Watch interviews with supporters. These people like when he deploys the military in our own cities. They cheer when government buildings and airports are re-named and giant portraits are hung up. They salivate when ICE murders American civilians and are granted “absolute immunity.” They applaud when he pardons criminal political allies as a reward for loyalty. They like that he starts wars without consulting congress. They don’t care if he tries to bypass the Constitution with executive order, or if he ignores legislative mandates. He tells his voters, straight to their faces, that he’s now doing the total opposite of his core campaign promises…..and they lap it up and ask for seconds. He tells them the Epstein list is a hoax and that he's going to solve the national debt, and they believe him. Religious leaders routinely say he’s divinely ordained or some sort of “chosen vessel.” And “Trump 2028” hats and shirts and flags were on sale at CPAC. This shit is disgusting and cult-like and anti-American. No Kings is as much about that aspect of today's politics as it is about simply "Orange Man Bad."

For the record let's exam the last deal the US managed to negotiate in 2015. Key Aspects of the JCPOA: Nuclear Constraints: Iran agreed to reduce its installed centrifuges, cap uranium enrichment at (far below the needed for weapons), and redesign the Arak heavy-water reactor to prevent plutonium production. Sanctions Relief: The UN, US, and EU agreed to lift nuclear-related economic sanctions on Iran. Monitoring: The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) was granted enhanced access and monitoring of Iranian facilities, including 25-year surveillance of uranium mines. Sounds like much better terms than were getting now. What happened to that deal? Oh right trump couldn't stand someone else's signature on it. Withdrawal: In 2018, the US withdrew under President Trump, citing limitations in the deal (e.g., sunset clauses) and re-imposed sanctions. Iran subsequently began enriching uranium to higher levels. Iran isn't going to negotiate. Last time they did in earnest, we said "lol jk" within 3 years. Then used the fact they're enriching uranium, even though we are the ones that backed of the agreement that prevented them from doing so, to bomb the shit out of them 7 years later.

Reading all of the “pundits” posts here, listening to all of the “pundits” on Cable TV and Network stations. Communicating with Family and Friends, and listening to their definitive opinions….is like listening to debates of the existence of God, Heaven, or Hell… And since I’m getting older, and wiser now, to when knowing to sit and wait things out… And so, I’ll Toast (with another IPA from “tac airlifter”) to all of you my fellow pilots and to your Family and Friends. Cheers, keep it civil guys…. Check 6

TACO strikes again. What a shocker. Just like the good ol' days on The Apprentice.

100%. It's always the case. Bring paragraphs of arguments and the evidence to back it up and the only counter is "TDS. But what about Harris." 5 pages ago these guys refused to believe osint reporting we'd lost an F-15E. Now let's sweep it under the rug along with 2x MC-130s, 1x E-3, 5+ KC-135s, 1x A-10 and sky-high oil prices. Look at the backlash regarding the troops lost at abbey gate executing Trump's poorly negotiated withdrawal deal. The ability to project outrage only when the other side is at the helm is ridiculous.

https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/trump-iran-deadline-israel-hormuz-april-7.amp So we won, right? Just have to negotiate around this concept that: Explicitly allows Iranian enrichment Explicitly gives Iran control of the Strait Removes US military from Middle East Lifting of all sanctions Even Fox is struggling on how to spin this. But we all know they’ll find a way, and the 30% will be happy.

Do I think the woman who had years and years of political experience and a foreign policy team that didn't consist of her immediate relatives, some real estate tycoons, and a fox news/Nat guard maj, would have done better? You can't seriously tell me that the answer to the question is anything other than yes. We wouldn't be in the conflict because diplomacy would've prevailed. If we were drawn into it anyways, we'd have more experience and stability at the helm to lead it. A person that actually could read their daily intelligence briefings, understand the levers Iran has, and work with rather than allienate allies and experts (Ukraine) to nullify their advantages. Remind me, how much was gas when Biden left office? How much is it now?

Honestly no. And if she had started this war I would’ve been against it too. I just argue against trump here because railing on the dems in a predominantly conservative forum isn’t any fun The dems have their own huge issues, namely being so insane on social and economic policy that it will drive people to vote for candidates like trump. And I will always blame the democrats for trump round two. He should have been easy to beat but when you run a senile guy and then sub in a cackling crazy lady at the 11th hour #brat #joy they somehow made trump look (temporarily) like the sane option.

We would have been unburdened by what has been. And by that, I’m referring to our alliance with THE Republic of North Korea and their influence over Iran. Things would been 1000x better with her at the helm of this ship…

Saw this as the list of demands. My replies after... 1. Guarantee that Iran will not be attacked again - OK, but conditions 2. Permanent end to the war, not just a ceasefire - OK, but conditions 3. End to Israeli strikes in Lebanon - we don't control Israel, so conditions 4. Lifting of all US sanctions on Iran - OK, conditions 5. End to all regional fighting against Iranian allies - stop your proxies 1st 6. In return, Iran would open the Strait of Hormuz 7. Iran would impose a Hormuz fee of $2 million per ship - No. Free transit or we seize all your tankers. 8. Iran would split these fees with Oman - No 9. Iran to provide rules for safe passage through Hormuz - No. No rules. Everyone is free to pass. 10. Iran to use Hormuz fees for reconstruction instead of reparations. - No fees. You want to be part of the free world, act like it.

Yes - we would have been burdened by what was.

Do you seriously think it would have been worse? Serious question.

For all you critics of Trump, do you really think Harris would have done better?!? Serious question.

interesting take from the side that simply claims "TDS" for every critique of their orange god they can't/won't respond to, but go off queen 💅

I read a lot of their nonsense just for mod reasons, otherwise, I’ve taken the stance that if they don’t want to discuss in good faith, then why bother.

I love how triggered these guys are...thanks for the comedy.

Might be worth to reach out and see?

What you don’t seem to get - and most don’t - Iran is not a military power. It hasn’t been a military power. It’s not an air power. It’s not a naval power. It basically has no way to project real power outside its borders. It’s not doing it now, really, it hasn’t don’t it effectively before. It hasn’t been a military power for many decades. Iran is an economic power. It is a huge oil and LNG supplier. And it now has realized just how much economic power it has via control of a strait that they weren’t really sure they could control - but now they know damn well they can just load up on quadcopters and remote control jet skis the next time there is a cease fire to be adequately able to control the world economy again. You don’t control economic power with military power. You must use diplomacy and influence. Your stated goals cannot happen with the military, because even if we nuke Tehran, a few dudes can throw some mines in an area that demands international cooperation to be a real place to go and entirely negate any military victory. Your desires aren’t achievable in the way you imagine them. And if we agree to a peace plan in which they turn the Strait of Hormuz into another Panama Canal, Iran has the negotiating room of a superpower.

Plenty, including these last two that I specifically said is retarded. But that would mean you’d actually have to have awareness on what you’re talking about and scroll up a few posts. How’s that foot taste?

@Pooter @No One It’s very easy to understand guys, stop being such disingenuous douches.

TACO Tuesday indeed. Blatant market manipulation. Next step is "defeated" Iran blowing up some more expensive equipment. Because this admin's word isn't worth the shit stained single ply trump branded toilet paper it's written on.

How's this one working out for you? You can find plenty more examples, and I tried to stay away from obviously left of center sources. Even Fox sees it- China gaining leverage over US Brookings - Shows US allies turning to China RAND - World leaders flirting with China Gallup - China moves past US in global leadership AP - US Allies resetting relations with China

Because after seeing years of simping and rushing to his defense when we call him out for saying clearly unhinged stuff, you saying “well I don’t like everything he says” and claiming not to be a supporter doesn’t really convince me anymore. The “I’m just a stoic political realist who picked the lesser of two evils” routine doesn’t hold as much water when you charge in to defend him and glaze his every policy move whenever there’s the slightest criticism. As others have said there is actually a 3rd option here: expect better and stop making excuses for the guy

Called it!